Elo Hell Exists and here is the solution.

sonics shadow·Mar 25, 2017·4 votes·1,580 views

Elo hell does exist, people say "just win more than you loose." easier said than done. For one you have to play a game where all of your teammates had 14+ deaths while you have 2 deaths. So tell me "win more" people. How do you win that game? Impossible because all of the people on your team fed the other team till they are gods and the instant you want to help them, you are quickly over run and you lower your own score. Second even if you don't have a game like that, where everyone feeds, if one person feeds on your team, you lose, no matter what. I cant tell you how many times i myself gets fed and then the rest of the team just sucks. if one person is fed on my team, but the rest of the other team is fed that means you cant win. Seriously. There needs to be a penalty for have consistent horrible scores. Example. If someone were to play LOL and they consistently get scores like 2/15/3 then they should be temp banned from regular games and can only play bot games till they get better. If they get better in the bots but then fall into the same type of scores then they will be temp banned longer and longer. that way people that know how to play the game can actually play in peace and not have to worry about some 5 year old playing on a LV30 summoner account. by implementing such a system then elo hell will disappear for those that can actually play the game and now have to constantly get a 50% and under win rate because people cant play the game correctly. It is only for the ones that are consistently bad. It wouldn't affect someone that just had a couple of bad games because its there off day.

I want to enjoy this game but it is hard to when there are people that are just plain awful. and if a person that get a score like 2/15/3 and the team wins because the rest of their team played well then that just enables that person to play bad with people that are good. there is no learning for them.. but if they are punished and they realize that they are consistently bad then they will either practice more so they can get out of their ban, or they will just quit, because they are legitimately a bad player and the game is not for them.

Now i was placed in B5, i am not mad about the placement, i am mad that you cant get out of it for the rest of your ranked career because of bad players in every game. The ranked system is broken as well. I have 14 wins, and 25LP. however someone in B1 has 3 wins and 0LP. Now tell me that isn't just a little weird. how can someone who has only won three times in a higher rank than i? It doesn't make sense.

The bottom line is Riot need to put more weight on a players score and not just their win or loss. If a player is the only person that is positive (in score ie 5/1/x) but the rest of the team is negative (25/1/x) then they should not be penalized for the loss, or at least not lose any LP for it. The ban should work for ranked as well. It would work like: if a person has a less than 40% win rate in any ranked league then they will be warned that if they do not improve then they will either drop down to the next tier in the ranked system or if they are in bronze then they will be banned from ranked games until next season. that way the people that belong any amount higher than they actually are will be able to get there and maybe improve as well. This new system would not affect plat/diamond players very much because they are there for a good reason. the system can bend for them as well, if they just had an off day and they decide not to play for the rest of the day and the next day they do better then they are not penalized. this system is to weed out all the people that are CONSISTENTLY bad players.

And if i myself were to fall into the banned area then it would tell me that i need to learn more, that i need to improve my skills and work to get better in a nurturing environment. if a person is always loosing because of their bad teams that doesn't allow them to improve or grow because they don't have a chance to do anything against a 1v5 team. overall there needs to be a better match making system, kick the players that cant play to the sidelines and let the learn while the people that can play enjoy the game a lot more.

27 Comments

Magical PlayerMar 25, 20174 votes

1- there is a consistent penalty for doing bad, lost lp lower division, lower mmr 2- If you want to climb you have to carry, you should not rely on your team to carry 3- Your mmr was lower than the person who placed higher out of placements, not hard to see. 4- Team game, team not solo game 5- So a bad game, should essentially put you in prisoners island.... 6-https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=sonics+shadow+ this is you 7- far too many normal games to actually climb with, play ranked more often if you want to climb. Don't do the 1 loss and Done Don't take this the wrong way, you're the bottom of the barrel, there is only 1 way left to go and that is up. Either you will go up or you wont but you can't climb playing 1 ranked game every week(unless you win 100% of the time)

Tahminatrix Mar 25, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Magical Player,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Vk9q63Nz,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-03-25T18:06:12.690+0000)

2- If you want to climb you have to carry, you should not rely on your team to carry

4- Team game, team not solo game

How do you carry as a support with teammates who only go in when they want to penta solo

Why are we ranked individually if its a team game.

How do you force your team to take objectives as a support...you cant take them yourself...what am i going to do, heal or cc a tower / drag / baron to death.

also why say its a team game then say "You should not rely on your team to carry"

you cannot carry with cc...you carry with damage to kill enemies and take objectives...you are nothing if you cc the enemy team and they do not get nuked
(unless you just stopped them from getting last hit on an objective / catching someone)

So ya...you should be relying on damage oriented teammates to carry.

Magical PlayerMar 25, 20171 votes

Addressing his points

IN a team game, you can still have hard carries but a team wins or losses based around the team doing well If you can't carry you should do your best to be carried by your team If you want to win more you have to carry in some fashion Relying on 4 other randoms to perfectly play at or above your skill level should not be what you are relying on to win games you should see yourself as the reason for a win or loss, as if you didn't play 110% perfectly there is room to expand your skills

Tahminatrix Mar 25, 20171 votes

But you cannot carry as a support, you can be the most skilled Braum in the world but you cannot protect every teammate because your cooldowns will be exhausted by 5 enemy players even with max cdr...

You cannot nuke 100 - 0 enemies..

You can only protect that Ashe who built item 3075 against a most ap and ad caster team. Or an Orianna who is 0-10 Or that Anivia who cannot land a stun and keeps walling herself or teammates to death.

In higher elo that is different but we should be getting teammates who are at our skill level no matter the elo in general....if not make it so we are not rewarded individually for a TEAM GAME

Magical PlayerMar 25, 20172 votes

You can carry as support, not going to debate this Annie Ziggs Veigar Zyra Malzahar Nunu Morgana Nami Singed all super carry supports is it harder to carry as a support yes, as you have to rely on others to not mess up Im sorry you feel that supports can't carry

Tahminatrix Mar 25, 20171 votes

Annie damage damage Ziggs damage Veigar damage Zyra damage Malzahar damage Nunu damage with some utility to help the adc do more dmg Morgana same as nunu Nami she is supposed to carry early game that is her role to make sure bot lane survives and thrives Singed more damage.

You f##@@@#**$ing agreed with me that true cc supports cant carry.. i never brought up ap supports and when you said "im sorry you feel supports cant carry" its the fking fact you just said supports not ap supports not mages.

So ya you agreed with my arguements I never brought up supports that do damage and you just listed all the supports that arnt mostly cc oriented with no aoe dmg

Magical PlayerMar 25, 20172 votes

No your statement was supports cant carry

[{quoted}](name=Super Cow Swag,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Vk9q63Nz,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-25T18:19:25.224+0000)

But you cannot carry as a support

To which I say supports can carry, here are a few yes they are all damage cc supports Annie cc damage cc damage Veigar cc damage Zyra cc damage Malzahar cc damage

sure they don't heal or soak damage very well, but that in my opinion is rarely needed

Tahminatrix Mar 25, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Magical Player,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Vk9q63Nz,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-25T20:12:16.784+0000)

No your statement was supports cant carry

To which I say supports can carry, here are a few yes they are all damage cc supports cc damage cc damage cc damage cc damage cc damage

sure they don't heal or soak damage very well, but that in my opinion is rarely needed

Those are ap supports...the entire time I was clearly referencing true cc supports... why do you think I kept bringing up cc

Whenever I brought up supports cant carry , my main arguement was you are useless with just cc and no damage...I constantly brought that up....then you bring up a bunch of ap supports that bring damage themselves.

You are simply avoiding my arguement. Therefore this is just a waste of time..all you did was bring up those champs again, every champion in the game has some form of cc weather it is built into their kit or not...even illaoi although it is situational

And again

you agree with me...

Supports cant carry

You bring up ap supports

Ap support does not equal support

Plz tell me how a Leona can get fed and completly stomp a game doing the most damage...she wont ...she is heavy cc.

Unless enemy team is entirely made of ad and she gets thornmails...

Also you cant just say cc damage cc damage cc damage....those champs have much more damage then they do cc....except for zyra.

Or are you complaining and you want those champs to be stripped of their very little cc..cause thats the only reason you would bring their cc up when they are mostly damage oriented.

So yes I will continue to reinforce my arguement while you dodge around it...true supports cannot carry.

Forced FeedMar 25, 20172 votes

Just ignore this dipwad. He takes points out of context intentionally to try to create false arguments, it's like talking with a 12 year old that thinks they know everything.

Tahminatrix Mar 25, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Magical Player,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Vk9q63Nz,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-25T20:12:16.784+0000)

No your statement was supports cant carry

support does not = ap support..that is in the mage category.

Magical PlayerMar 25, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Super Cow Swag,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Vk9q63Nz,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-03-25T20:55:14.167+0000)

support does not = ap support..that is in the mage category.

Im referencing the whole champion pool of what is considered support you still think only Braum Leona Taric Soraka Janna are true supports Taric use to be a strong jungler Soraka use to be an op top laner almost every support has been used in other lanes TOP janna use to be a thing

Support= Tank support Support = Mage support Support = Utility support

Tank and Utility supports are by far the hardest to carry with as you're lacking the ability to deal damage

For the record there are heros that have NO CC built into their kit Mordekaiser Zed Khazix Katarina to name a few

If you remove the cc from those champs I listed, they would become nonviable heros their kits work around the cc, so cc is a huge part of their kit support viegar 5 man cc move is game changing annies point and click stun on many malz lock down of a carry

You could build straight health cdr and be a cc machine and it would be viable Again allow me to reference your post

[{quoted}](name=Super Cow Swag,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Vk9q63Nz,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-25T18:19:25.224+0000)

But you cannot carry as a support

to that again, I state you can carry as a support. It is not easy but it can be done It is by far harder on tank and healing on supports, but it can be done

Tahminatrix Mar 25, 20172 votes

Did we forget that this thread is about elo hell.. you cannot carry as a mostly cc/utility based support in low elo...zyra and nami and sona are exceptions but 2 of which fall off pretty hard damage wise late game and just become cc bots..they would need to kill towers and take objectives before that window closes...so yes now im agreeing with you it is hard but can be done....just not with teammates who int feed and rage...you arnt pantheon who thrives in elo hell

TahmKench used to be a much more viable top laner until they gutted him into nothing but a cc/peel bot...but we are talking about the champions as they are now..

I just carried as TahmKench but not with a terrible team...i think i got a few gold players...and I did so by building heavy bruiser and dueling the fed Draven who thought Thresh would keep him safe despite having no mana

Magical PlayerMar 25, 20171 votes

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Tahminatrix Mar 25, 20172 votes

But that isnt an example of elo hell, that is an example of a team that was helping and the enemy team was failing hard.

Tahminatrix Mar 25, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Super Cow Swag,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Vk9q63Nz,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-03-25T18:07:41.506+0000) you cannot carry with cc...you carry with damage to kill enemies and take objectives..

You are still agreeing with me by bringing up dmg orentated supports anyway ..or did you not read that statement above............... every champ in the game has cc..but not all are based around cc and utility.

Maybe we both just got confused because you ignored this statement or missed it

Magical PlayerMar 25, 20172 votes

Maybe you opted into ignoring what you posted but hey if you assigning blame go for it we agree that you can carry from support that is all that matters

Tahminatrix Mar 25, 20172 votes

No I said missed it because I might have finished editing it right after you posted your first post and it was just lost in time from then on, ya nothing to argue about atm.

Unless this is enjoyable and you still want to. If so then its your fault for not rereading obvious edits ...etc....cancer lol this arguement is gonna get wrekt

Forced FeedMar 25, 20171 votes

Magical Player once again misses the point entirely and continues derailing another topic.

Super Cow Swag was talking about PEOPLE WHO BUILD SUPPORT CANNOT CARRY, not just any champion who happens to be support. If you built support the whole game and then your team sucks, there is not much option to carry. Could you at least read into the context one time before you try giving advice jesus christ.

Tahminatrix Mar 26, 20171 votes

Its fine now, magical player was right in some way, I said support which is my mistake since that means supports in general, I do think that ap supports should just be a sub category of mages though rather then (damage supports) but whatever.

Forced FeedMar 26, 20171 votes

He knew what you meant and he knows what he is doing. Take a look at his post history he does this in every single topic.

Magical PlayerMar 26, 20171 votes

My name was said . I have arrived to visit my loyal fan(stalker) Questions Comments Concerns ?

Magical PlayerMar 25, 20172 votes

Aight I'll re address since you made the edit

Can you win as support? yes is it hard? 100%

Should you attempt to climb solo as support? I'd say no, but to each his own. Someone has to support and lets be honest would you rather have the dedicated support main or the fill

Addressed last point, but here it is again

IN a team game, you can still have hard carries but a team wins or losses based around the team doing well Team took more objectives than enemy Team is up in gold Team ahead in drags Team ahead in Barons Team ahead in vision control Team ahead in map control Team ahead in kills

You can have people who are behind or ahead in each of those areas, but they add to the team goal You can not 1v5 starting out(okay you can, but very veyr veyr veyr hard), you need a team. As such you're entitled to similar losses and gains

If you can't carry you should do your best to be carried by your team If you want to win more you have to carry in some fashion

Tahminatrix Mar 25, 20171 votes

One last point since you are actually logical and intelligent and give real answers while also admitting support sucks in low elo...

Why rank/reward and punish players individually in a team game..this team you get will stop you from climbing, this one will peel and help you get a penta...this one wins all lanes...this one losses all lanes.....this one will have you reported for eating a low health Graves as a TahmKench while the enemy Darius is in the air ulting him....

Yes that did happen and I am salty af I hate people why ping me missing and telling me to stop eating you... I saved your life and Darius ult is now on cd...but you jump out of my belly anyway and dash to 1v2 the enemy while my W is on cd...then die yet blame me..

that and...you do not have much time to grow with your team...you cannot develop strategies and have teammates stick to them *trust me I tried but the only person that listens is usually the one who benefits the most out of it due to their champ/playstyle ...like telling everyone to peel for a Veigar as he catches players out with his cage...rather than hard engaging.

Only me and veigar do that while everyone else runs in...lol why low elo why

His DinoboyMar 25, 20171 votes

So i recently climbed out of bronze 5 about a month ago, and ill share the way i did it. you need to hold your teams hand the entire time by either jungling or laning mid. Roaming bot and top constantly to influence the game so hard its virtually impossible to lose. I used the champs annie and fizz when mid and hec when jungling. In one of my most recent games i had 138 cs in like a 30 minute game on fizz, this is how much i had to roam to win. Also try to not focus on how bad your teammates are, by instead focusing on how good you have to be to carry the amount of retardation and simply idiotic choices/mehcanics in that godforsaken elo. also the game isn't about kills, its about getting objectives. influencing the game like i previously mentioned isn't just getting a free double kill bot than backing, you should help them get turrent as well.

normie sIayerMar 25, 20171 votes

play braindead champs and farm its not hard

StarbòyMar 25, 20171 votes

first advice 2 climb, PLAY META CHAMPIONS since this is the only way to climb, unless you are an one-trick-pony on a specific champion and u have thousands of games with him, and play mid/top or jungle if u feel that u can carry, botlane has almost 0 impact on game unless u duo with someone who can peel you and have a good synergy

Forced FeedMar 25, 20171 votes

With a system that's based on Win/Loss, and based on a 1v1 game, it'll never be that accurate. As you said, a guy that goes 0/18/3 can still win because his team is good and situations like this imbalance it very much so. On the other hand you can have a really good game and your entire team sucks and you still get a loss.

Who you won/lost against should be a factor, just not the main factor in determining who you get matched up with, because it's treating the guy who went 20/5/20 the same as the guy who went 0/18/3 just because they're on the same team ,this can never be accurate.