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Balancing jungle champions: Vi vs. Elise

Auturgist··2 votes·957 views

Elise has been my favorite champion since the first time I ever played her, and I suspected she would be the first time I ever saw her. She's dynamic, requires mastery of multiple mechanics and positioning, and her kit allows for several interesting ways to build her. But, you don't always get to play your favorite champ, so I figured I ought to start learning some other junglers. Enter Vi, who is one of my friend's favorite junglers. She has three buttons, is super easy to play, and somehow feels even stronger than Elise. How the fuck is this balanced? I've been playing Elise for MONTHS, and had people tell me I'm the best Elise they've ever seen (which I think counts for something, even if they are Silvers and Bronzies like myself), and I think it's absolute bullshit that a challenging champion like Elise is being eclipsed by one like Vi in the jungle. Please tell me Elise gets some love in the next major patch, because right now, I hate feeling like I'm picking an underdog every time I select my favorite champion.

8 Comments

xDingwithsalad3 votes

Deal with it. Just because someone is more mechanically challenging doesn't mean she should be better than someone who isn't mechanically challenging.

Auturgist3 votes

Uhhh... that's EXACTLY what it means. Risk vs. reward: you are at a higher risk of making mistakes with mechanically challenging champions, so when you play them well, they should reward you more by being stronger than other champions. When it's harder to play them AND they are not as strong, players stop playing them competitively, because winning is the goal, not having fun.

xDingwithsalad3 votes

nope. it doesnt lol.

xDingwithsalad2 votes

Imagine this-if a champion's q had a 1 second CD, hit all champs/cs on the map, did 1000000 damage, and had 0 mana cost, would the pros play him?

Of course. That's not because he's mechanically difficult, it's because he would guarantee wins.

Pros play champs that are stronger than other champs, but that has only a marginal amount to do with being mechanically complex.

Stop conflating issues. Thanks bud!

Auturgist1 votes

Your example is stupid, because no sensible game developer would allow that champion to exist for precisely the reasons I'm arguing: you can't have champions be easy to play AND stronger than ones who are difficult to play. They must exist on a sliding scale: the harder the champion is to play, the stronger the champion is when played properly. You see this all the time in LCS, with champions like Lee Sin, Yasuo, Zed, and Lucian being chosen because, while mechanically more challenging to play, they are worth it. And pro gamers would quickly quit this game if a champion like yours existed, because it would spoil the competition.

BlackRaven1 votes

not to be a dick or anything, but stop thinking of elise as challenging. landing a cocoon with its disgusting hitbox shouldnt be challenging. and even if you are bad with her, the second u do land a cocoon, that person should be dead if your team is anywhere near by. elise has insane poke top and jg. her spider form is incredibly annoying to vs. yes shes balanced but i believe vi doesnt have much to offer vs elise. yes vi has her ulti but elise can do much more. please dont bring lee in to this this is elise vs vi. vi can q and r. but elise has a much better kit. also elise goes in with more team comps and vi doesnt fit in as well.

Auturgist1 votes

Elise's cocoon hitbox has been nerfed. I've seen it sail right past someone where other skillshots from other champs would have definitely hit.

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

The main difference between mechanically simple and complex champions isn't a matter of power, but versatility. To use your comparison of Vi vs Elise: -Vi is fairly simple mechanically and specializes at diving and bursting squishy opponents and forcing all-ins. To this end, she has mobility to dive opponents and skills to apply burst damage with some sustained damage. -Elise's mechanics are more complex, so she can be more difficult to play. However, she makes up for this increased difficulty by having more options available to her. She has good poke, a stun, rappel makes her untargetable, and she has good burst and sustained damage when fighting.

Elise just has more flexibility in her kit to facilitate making plays. She's a better tower diver because she can poke down opponents beforehand without dedicating herself, has good burst damage, and has an ability which removes tower aggro from herself. She's also better in siege situations because she has ranged poke and CC. Combine this is a mobility tool which makes her untargetable and lets her drop down on enemy minions, monsters, and champions to let her gap-close and make escapes, she has a lot of options available when played well.

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