New yorick is awesome as hell to play against in lane

Sona x Rubick·Sep 9, 2016·69 votes·8,893 views

No that's not sarcasm, i played against yorick 2 or 3 times today, and it's like, 1000% better than against the old one?

windown of power with the new gouls, skillshots, not brainless poke, a j4 ulti that can be both dodged and destroyed. Now i don't know if his splitpush/ pushing power is cancer but at least they fixed old yorick

compare this to mordekaiser's rework , which was supposed to fixe his non-interactive/toxic poke laning phase that changed nothing but also gave him sustain which is now keeping mordekaiser weak on purpose.

I don't know who did this rework, but it was a good job especially when you know that the design team didn't manage to rework him since 4 or 5 years.

129 Comments

Demon King MaouSep 9, 201614 votes

I've been playing him full tank seems pretty fun ;P I keep getting matched vs darius and kled though.. Damn noxians

Jaygo41Sep 9, 201634 votes

noxians... I hate those guys

ItsOrvalSep 9, 20161 votes

Ive been playing him full AD on my main account, one hits enemy adc with Q ability

sadboiPrimeSep 9, 201612 votes

If you can reach them, which anyone above silver won't let happen.

ItsOrvalSep 9, 20162 votes

His W traps him my boy.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoSep 9, 20162 votes

i played Maokai into him earlier and next go around im gonna try and see if Trundle still works vs him

TheorcheroSep 9, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J6Tfv5Vu,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2016-09-09T06:47:15.982+0000)

i played into him earlier and next go around im gonna try and see if still works vs him

It absolutely should. He loves tanky items and he has spawns which give Trundle health when he kills them. Yorick should never, ever, be able to duel Trundle.

SpoofghoulSep 9, 20161 votes

perhaps with maidens %hp

SinlaireSep 9, 20162 votes

with maiden and summoner 14 he should be able to stand toe to toe with trundle as long as they are evenly fed in theory.

may not need ignite but trundle ult healing can be a bit overbearing.

BlueBilberrySep 9, 20167 votes

I miss old Yorrick, the gravedigger (all the new graphics aside). There was something about his previous play mechanic that was pleasant - it just needed a bit of love.

ACENOXSep 9, 201617 votes

how could someone like old yorick, no decision to do just spam spells with tear and autowin the lane

Laggiest MedicSep 9, 201626 votes

he was cute

SociopathFriendSep 9, 20162 votes

Some people like that

GetcuxcdSep 9, 20165 votes

so they gutted my yorick who wasnt even NEARLY as bad as riven to play against but they leave riven aiderous cuz of her fanbase

TequilaZombieSep 9, 201613 votes

yorick who wasnt even NEARLY as bad as riven to play against

Yorick... wasn't... bad... to play agaisnt.

Those words shall never be said in the same sentence. Yorick (when viable) is HELL to play against. He used to be the champion that you picked to win lane phase by default unless heavily camped from level 1. And even then, after getting his mana regen item, he'd beat your top laner due to raw stats and granted poke/sustain/slow.

Yorick walks into a bar. There is no counter.

This joke wasn't created for no reason. Old Yorick was the definition of cancer. You think Teemo is annoying? You think Tank Yasuo is bad? You haven't seen old Yorick.

GetcuxcdSep 9, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Yorick... wasn't... bad... to play agaisnt.

Those words shall never be said in the same sentence. Yorick (when viable) is HELL to play against. He used to be the champion that you picked to win lane phase by default unless heavily camped from level 1. And even then, after getting his mana regen item, he'd beat your top laner due to raw stats and granted poke/sustain/slow.

Yorick walks into a bar. There is no counter.

This joke wasn't created for no reason. Old Yorick was the definition of cancer. You think Teemo is annoying? You think Tank Yasuo is bad? You haven't seen old Yorick.

im a yorick main with 700 games im pretty sure i know better but the thing is riven is worse than yorick and she gets special treatment while yorick gets fucked i know yorick needed it but riven needs it more and riot cant do it just because of her aiderous fanbase it just doesnt make any sense to let riven get away with it rework her give her an energy source etc

TequilaZombieSep 9, 20169 votes

Riven has counterplay and she's interactive with the enemy. Give both Riven and (old) Yorick numbers that are good enough to make them viable and Yorick becomes absolute cancer in the top lane once again. I'm not sure if you were around in season 2 and part of season 3, in which Yorick was actually viable.

His play pattern was buying mana regen (and possibly getting some through runes and masteries) and poking you to death with undodgeable abilities that also forced you out of the minion xp range. He could out heal your poke and he could win any all in due to his passive giving him a massive ball of stats. There was literally nothing you could do againt him. There was no bad match up for him. There was no playstyle that would help against him. You know what they considered to be his "counter"? Trundle. Because he could survive in lane longer than other champions. Not because he had a chance of beating Yorick, but becuase he could sit in lane in the border of the minion xp zone longer than other champions and would heal a little bit of the damage the ghouls would deal to him.

I hate using words like cancer to describe stuff, but Yorick was a huge tumor in League of Legends who needed to be hit with some heavy chemo. He had no interaction with his enemy, his play patterns wouldn't change according to who he was facing. I don't have 700 games with Yorick, but I know enough about game design to understand that this is unhealthy game play at it's prime.

Riven has her problems, even though she's overtuned right now. Although this over the top number tweaking is mostly about Worlds coming and not overall game balance.

GetcuxcdSep 9, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Riven has counterplay and she's interactive with the enemy. Give both Riven and (old) Yorick numbers that are good enough to make them viable and Yorick becomes absolute cancer in the top lane once again. I'm not sure if you were around in season 2 and part of season 3, in which Yorick was actually viable.

His play pattern was buying mana regen (and possibly getting some through runes and masteries) and poking you to death with undodgeable abilities that also forced you out of the minion xp range. He could out heal your poke and he could win any all in due to his passive giving him a massive ball of stats. There was literally nothing you could do againt him. There was no bad match up for him. There was no playstyle that would help against him. You know what they considered to be his "counter"? Trundle. Because he could survive in lane longer than other champions. Not because he had a chance of beating Yorick, but becuase he could sit in lane in the border of the minion xp zone longer than other champions and would heal a little bit of the damage the ghouls would deal to him.

I hate using words like cancer to describe stuff, but Yorick was a huge tumor in League of Legends who needed to be hit with some heavy chemo. He had no interaction with his enemy, his play patterns wouldn't change according to who he was facing. I don't have 700 games with Yorick, but I know enough about game design to understand that this is unhealthy game play at it's prime.

Riven has her problems, even though she's overtuned right now. Although this over the top number tweaking is mostly about Worlds coming and not overall game balance.

apparently u havent played against a good riven that abuses the hell out of animation cancelling and btw yorick does have counters too every champ has counters even the OP of ops its just the problem how many counter they have and are most of them really counters or just skill matchups because riven in good hands is obnoxious as hell and obviously riot doesnt fix her because of her fanbase all they care is about the money and yorick is ugly so they dgaf about him

EROTIC RAID BOSSSep 9, 201611 votes

even so, not many players would agree with you that riven is more cancerous. yorick was no fun for anyone in the game. But safe to say you're just a little biased

ÐelofashtSep 9, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Monado II,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J6Tfv5Vu,comment-id=000900000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-09T11:51:10.304+0000)

even so, not many players would agree with you that riven is more cancerous. yorick was no fun for anyone in the game. But safe to say you're just a little biased

Many players never played against Yorick but just blindly agree with why he was toxic without looking at what they could do to beat it. Toxic design is being too good at too many things, durability/damage/mobility, if they have all 3 they are going to be considered toxic. Yorick had 2 of the three, he had no mobility in his kit (run speed increase doesn't really count), he should never have been considered toxic. He had too safe of trading in lane, that was an issue, and one that could have been adjust by just moving the speed boost to E (like they did) and the sustain to Q (which they also did but nerfed the sustain horribly in the process). So not only have they made him less able to trade, but reduced his capabilities to handle various enemies, congratulations he's less "toxic" now (though he wasn't toxic in the first place).

The new Yorick's passive is, by design, flawed for League. He cannot get graves except by it and makes his play patterns too predictable, giving him no flexibility, his choices are limited and once commited to any decision he is all in for that strategy for at least a few minutes. Also, Q'ing minions to get graves feels wrong, he should get graves for killing enemies while his Q is on cooldown with a max number per 30s, that way he can use his Q to trade with the lane opponent (instead of farming with it).

TequilaZombieSep 9, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Many players never played against Yorick but just blindly agree with why he was toxic without looking at what they could do to beat it. Toxic design is being too good at too many things, durability/damage/mobility, if they have all 3 they are going to be considered toxic. Yorick had 2 of the three, he had no mobility in his kit (run speed increase doesn't really count), he should never have been considered toxic. He had too safe of trading in lane, that was an issue, and one that could have been adjust by just moving the speed boost to E (like they did) and the sustain to Q (which they also did but nerfed the sustain horribly in the process). So not only have they made him less able to trade, but reduced his capabilities to handle various enemies, congratulations he's less "toxic" now (though he wasn't toxic in the first place).

Ok, a few flaws.

1- While many players haven't played against Yorick, quite a share did. I probably have about 100 games against him in season 2 and 3 alone, when he was still viable (and therefore, strong).

Toxic design is being too good at too many things, durability/damage/mobility, if they have all 3 they are going to be considered toxic.

2- That's partially right. While a champion with durability and damage and mobility is toxic (in most scenarios), you don't require all 3 of those to be toxic. Kinda like all gorilas are primates, but not all primates are gorilas ~~#PrayForHarambe~~. Yorick kit by itself was a toxic one because he simply lacked viable interaction with his lane oponent. I'm not sure how much game design you have studied, but I'm graduating at it and has been my hobby since I was a kid and I can assure you that this is as unhealthy as it gets to a competitive game. But you don't have to take my word for it. Riot's balance team agrees with it. So much that they gutted the champ extremely hard so he's unviable (pretty much one step short of downright deleting him).

From a design point of view, I'd go as far as say he had the most unhealthy kit and play pattern in the entire game. And yes, I'm taking into account aberrations such as Tank Ekko, AP Yi and stuff like that into consideration.

3- He not only had too much of "safe trades" in lane (Hell, he didn't had trades in lane. He had moments in which he'd use his fire and forget spells to bully the oponent out of the xp zone while healing himself to recover from any retaliation the oponent could launch at him). He also had a passive that granted him a ball of steroids that granted him the ability to stat check anyone in top lane who tried to all in him.

I haven't seen the new Yorick yet, but I can assure with 0% doubt that design wise he will be better than old Yorick.

Side note: the difference between being OP/UP and Broken:

A broken champion is one with a design flaw, such as Old Yorick (3 fire and forget spells to bully your oponent), Old Poppy (50% dmg reduction, ability to ignore entire teams), Old Sion (Weird kiddo that either did nothing too well or did a few things WAY too well).

An OP/UP Champion can be any champion that BALANCE wise has a flaw. Any champion with stats vastly increased are OP. Give Eve 1k hp and 90 base AD at level 1 and you have an OP champion, for she's now overtuned. Give her 300 base hp and 30 base AD at level 1 and she's now UP.

ÐelofashtSep 10, 20161 votes

His design was less flawed before than it is now, he had strong counter building, weaknesses that were easy to expose and did not trade profitably unless he weaves in auto attacks. He was never gutted, his kit was stabilized in S2 and primarily never changed from that point onward, he was still viable in S3, 4, and even 5. The problems that faced him had nothing to do with his skills, and everything to do with people not understanding his function. Juggernaut finally gave him a role, which he had already been serving, the primary failures were given to his Ult scaling on whoever he Ulted and them understanding how to use that power.

In short form, he was plagued by misconception and confusion, enemies didn't understand what they needed to do because ghouls do not look powerful and allies didn't think he did damage because ghouls do not look powerful and his Ult did not clearly represent what was going to happen or how strong it was either.

Poppy had the magic 3, damage, mobility (gap closer), and durability in spades, granted only with her Ult up.

Sion was considered toxic just strangely designed.

Please understand, all the truly toxic kits have all 3, everything else that is considered toxic is just misunderstanding or misconception. We see Illaoi being called toxic, or Irelia, or Yasuo, or any number of champions. Perception is everything, the community considered it toxic, the developers simply said they did not know what to do with it and keep his feel.

In this respect they did okay, but the leash to lanes is design flaw in a team game where not everyone on your team wants to just fight in lanes and siege. As a siege champion the new Yorick is probably fine, provided he gets his graves to send the walkers in on every wave of minions.

EROTIC RAID BOSSSep 10, 20162 votes

youre nuts lol

his design was SO bad and so toxic that they actually removed him from the rotating queue so that no one would play him

GetcuxcdSep 9, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Monado II,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J6Tfv5Vu,comment-id=000900000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-09T11:51:10.304+0000)

even so, not many players would agree with you that riven is more cancerous. yorick was no fun for anyone in the game. But safe to say you're just a little biased

lol the thruth that many players wouldnt agree with me is because of her aiderous fanbase thats what im talking about LMAO riven is the most defended champ in LOL history u are actually the one whos biased in fact i even admit that yorick needed it but not as much as riven [zombie-brand-facepalm]

JorenciceSep 9, 20163 votes

Lol. Ive played about 3 games of riven.. ever.

And i still think yorick was WAY worse.

His entire rotation was.

E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E enemy low health?

Fuck it E some more.

Win lane and keep pushing at 100% health.

GetcuxcdSep 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Lol. Ive played about 3 games of riven.. ever.

And i still think yorick was WAY worse.

His entire rotation was.

E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E enemy low health?

Fuck it E some more.

Win lane and keep pushing at 100% health.

yes you have played against bad rivens and youre blind to her true power... so why talk .. dont argue with me man even if the riven had like level 7 or 400k she can still be bad in the low elo

JorenciceSep 10, 20163 votes

Lol. Thats a horrible argument.

Even riven 1 trick ponys barely break 50% winrate.

GetcuxcdSep 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Lol. Thats a horrible argument.

Even riven 1 trick ponys barely break 50% winrate.

NOPE in fact high elo 1 trick rivens have MINIMUM 60% WR going up to 70-75

CeexSettSep 10, 20163 votes

Master+ Korea Riven mains (probably the best players of the world) have 60% win rate, sometimes getting up to 65%, but since there are not that many Korean Master+ players, the win rates are a bit skewed.

EROTIC RAID BOSSSep 10, 20163 votes

youre delusional lol

GetcuxcdSep 10, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Monado II,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J6Tfv5Vu,comment-id=00090000000000000000000000010001,timestamp=2016-09-10T04:00:28.784+0000)

youre delusional lol

oooh yeah that silver 5 guy that is 1 game away to be demoted to bronze says that im delusional. just awesome he must rly know better than me

CeexSettSep 10, 20164 votes

I mean, you are Gold V, it's not really that high of an achievement.

YumaS2AstralSep 9, 20162 votes

{quoted}

apparently u havent played against a good riven that abuses the hell out of animation cancelling and btw yorick does have counters too every champ has counters even the OP of ops its just the problem how many counter they have and are most of them really counters or just skill matchups because riven in good hands is obnoxious as hell and obviously riot doesnt fix her because of her fanbase all they care is about the money and yorick is ugly so they dgaf about him

Don't understand why you are being downvoted. You are completely right. Riven is non-interactive in the lane, and she is not fair to play against. She has counters, however, and can be beaten by smart play. Just like old Yorick.

GetcuxcdSep 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Don't understand why you are being downvoted. You are completely right. Riven is non-interactive in the lane, and she is not fair to play against. She has counters, however, and can be beaten by smart play. Just like old Yorick.

yeah mate as i said whenever you say something bad about riven, riven weab mains go triggered heavy breathing and click that downvote ASAP its impossible to reason with these biased kappas lol

NuparuSep 9, 20164 votes

Your attitude is why people downvote you, you don't bring an argument, you act condescending and act like anyone who plays Riven is a weeaboo anime-watching neckbeard.

It's irritating.

NuparuSep 9, 20163 votes

We don't have the same definition of interactive then.

Yorick was truly non-interactive. He, when at all viable, was able to spam ghouls from range and never once hit you in melee while bullying you so hard you didn't even consider last hitting. You can't deal with that with stuns or cc or whatever. That's truly non-interactive gameplay.

Riven, with her kit, has to get into your face and do her Riven tricks to deal damage. At least she's within trading zone, doesn't sustain extremely hard from basic levels, and can't zone you from range. For as stupid as it can be dealing with her sometimes, she at least has to be near you to fucking obliterate you, meaning you can get XP/gold/trades/CC off.

Spaceman5pffSep 9, 20163 votes

TBH Riven is one of my favorite champions to lane against top. Not because it is easy, but because it is a highly interactive and fair feeling experience.

If only they could figure out Yasuo the same way....

GetcuxcdSep 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

TBH Riven is one of my favorite champions to lane against top. Not because it is easy, but because it is a highly interactive and fair feeling experience.

If only they could figure out Yasuo the same way....

LOL YEAH at silver 5 rivens are awful play against a remotely competent riven, please its funny i imagine the rivens u face are like just farming and ignoring you wasting all of her aids potential

Spaceman5pffSep 9, 20161 votes

No, they usually just always go aggro even if I have a creep advantage.

I have faced a few 400k + rivens as well, these are the matchups I remember being fun.

GetcuxcdSep 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

No, they usually just always go aggro even if I have a creep advantage.

I have faced a few 400k + rivens as well, these are the matchups I remember being fun.

you can have 400k and still be shit and u are at low elo.

Spaceman5pffSep 10, 20162 votes

Giving me shit for being low elo and you are only gold 5 lmao

GetcuxcdSep 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Giving me shit for being low elo and you are only gold 5 lmao

umm theres a HUUUUUUUUUUUUGE difference between some1 whos at the edge of bronze than a gold player who improves more and more

CeexSettSep 10, 20162 votes

Because those Gold V riven mains are 1v9ing every single minute amirite?

Unstoppable MonkSep 9, 20164 votes

I've been playing him as BAN HIM OUT because FotM players are feeding the enemy top laner so badly.

TheorcheroSep 9, 201612 votes

{quoted}

I've been playing him as BAN HIM OUT because FotM players are feeding the enemy top laner so badly.

I had a motherfucker wanting to play yorick top in ranked. Looked at his match history, 3/11, 1/9, and it got progressively worse from there.

I banned yorick and told him to practice him in normals first. He then proceeded to take my GP and run down mid and gave my enemy laner (swain) 7 kills before 12 minutes. I still carried that game but seriously, fuck that guy.

Unstoppable MonkSep 9, 20162 votes

What's sad is people call banning out their picks as toxic when trying to prevent a complete and total loss.

There's one guy still in bronze that reports anyone that bans his pants-on-head-retarded-comp-making midlane Jhin who constantly likes to hear the sound of his keyboard chatting about his lane.

Supreme Senpai69Sep 9, 201613 votes

To be fair Jhin mid is completely viable and used to be really popular. But I feel like if you pick intent something off meta and your team bans it, at least in ranked, you don't really have a right to complain. They have no reason to trust you.

Unstoppable MonkSep 9, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Revan Senpai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J6Tfv5Vu,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-09T09:11:54.752+0000)

To be fair Jhin mid is completely viable and used to be really popular. But I feel like if you pick intent something off meta and your team bans it, at least in ranked, you don't really have a right to complain. They have no reason to trust you.

Every latest release champion used to be really popular in any lane they could play them. People were taking Kled mid on release, that doesn't mean he's a viable popular mid laner.

Supreme Senpai69Sep 9, 20165 votes

Yeah but Jhin actually is a viable mid laner. He can even start e and get razorbeaks instantly for a quick level 2 if he goes to the mid lane. With his insane range his laning phase is very safe and his reload mechanic prevents from from pushing the wave too much so he doesn't get ganked. He can place traps on the sides of the lane to prevent ganks, too. It's a legit pick but not one I would do since it deprives the team of an AP Carry, unless your bot lane AD Carry goes Ezreal or Corki or something.