Team Comp Thoughts

WitchQueen Annie··1 votes·586 views

Everyone has those games where the game feels lost or won at champ select because of Comp. What are your thoughts on good team comps?

Good Team Comp:

Good team comps tend to have a "Triple Damage Line." By this I mean that they have THREE or more of the following: Mage, High Damage ADC, Tanky Juggernaut from Top, Damage Support

Good team comps have 2 dedicated champs who will build full tank or near full tank and whose kits synergies with such build (these champs can be part of the Triple Damage Line but sometimes are not).

Good team comps have at least 2 reliable sources of HARD cc.

Clear Examples: Jax Rammus Viktor Jinx Blitzcrank
(triple damage line: Jax, Viktor, Jinx) (Tanks: Jax, Rammus, potentially Blitz)(reliable hard cc: Rammus, Blitz)

Vladimir Amumu Lux MissFortune Nautilus (triple damage line: Vlad, Lux, MF) (Tanks: Amumu, Nautilus) (reliable cc: Amumu, Nautilus, Lux sort of)

Notice how its much easier to have a Good Team Comp if you don't go assassin mid. Its not that you can't pick an assassin mid, but if you do, you should create a Triple Damage Line with the other roles and that warps your team comp (ex Vlad top, Kog ADC, Brand support). Its hard to win without AOE.

Also, just to be clear, not all ADCs are necessarily "High Damage" ADCs. I'm not 100% set on this yet.

Common Bad Team Comps:

The following are things that I notice about Bad Team Comps (or comps that make it a LOT harder to win if not impossible in some cases).

The most common problem is NOT having a Triple Damage Line (not having it usually means in late game, you don't have the scaled AOE and reliable damage to win battles as 5 against better comps).

Sometimes there is lack of hard and reliable CC though there is usually some. A lack of tanks is common in low elo.

You should NEVER have more than 1 glass cannon diver/assassin in a team comp. Just NEVER. Its a No No. Your late game will be AWFUL. If your going to have Kha, Zed or Xin on the team, pick one and one only, pick more than one at your peril (better be smurfing). Another way to think about it is this: if you have 2 glass cannon divers/assassins, you probably can't create a Triple Damage Line in your team comp anymore without having the requisite tank frontline; you only have 5 people. Either your AOE will suck, or you will lack front line.

Its very easy to show OBVIOUS examples of bad team comp. So I'm just going to show some NOT SO obvious bad team comps imo.

Shen LeeSin Zed Jinx Thresh Why is this bad? (You don't have enough damage, there is no Triple Damage Line. You've got Jinx and that's it, NOTHING ELSE. Picking Zed, who is an assassin and not a mage, means that you are on a timer here. You've over supplied your team with non-damage peel champs and you've got 2 divers/assassins. You DO have enough CC and a frontline, but there are grave problems. Your team better get ahead and STAY ahead or its GG against a better comp manned by similar skilled players).

Pantheon Khazix Viktor Ashe Thresh (More damage than the above comp but not enough. Late game you've only got Viktor and Ashe dealing the damage. They die? GG. Also, Pantheon is NOT a tanky juggernaut who scales in the same way as Darius, Jax, or Fiora.)

...

Thoughts on Team Comp?

8 Comments

Rewt1 votes

The 2nd to last Teamcomp isnt bad for the reason you listed. its bad because You are full AD and literally 3 of the 5 enemy champs are gonna build thornmail and become immortal. that Comp HAS to snowball and win within 30min or its game over man. game over.

The last comp is bad because Its got pantheon but no other early game support so you are using him early but he isnt gonna do jack shit late game so its gonna be a 4v5 late game

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

{quoted}

The 2nd to last Teamcomp isnt bad for the reason you listed. its bad because You are full AD and literally 3 of the 5 enemy champs are gonna build thornmail and become immortal. that Comp HAS to snowball and win within 30min or its game over man. game over.

The last comp is bad because Its got pantheon but no other early game support so you are using him early but he isnt gonna do jack shit late game so its gonna be a 4v5 late game

Good point on the full AD (I missed it). But I still think, even if you replaced Zed with Kassadin or Leblanc, it would still be a bad comp just due to the lack of a reliable late game damage nexus.

Fed by Snu Snu1 votes

Everytime I pick a champion based on what the team needs, I lose and it never matters.

So I stopped caring about it and just go with it, if we snowball it won't matter anyway.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

The Lee has decent damage for the second to last teamcomp, combined with Shen their DPS is completely a threat. Not only that, they have 3 peeling champions, allowing Jinx to shine through as a hypercarry.

Also, you should specify this as 'Teamfight teamcomps'.

The last comp also works because Kha deals decent damage, Viktor has a ton of damage, he can both oneshot priority targets and be a source of DPS with his low cooldown spells and R, so Viktor is practically 1 and a half damage dealers.

Even if Viktor and Ashe die, Panth and Kha, while not being amazing at dishing out damage in a full blown teamfight, are both godly at clean up. If they both teams lose two damage dealers, Kha and Panth can easily take out the other. Or if this team loses their Viktor and Ashe but the other team loses their front line, Panth and Kha will wreak havoc on the unprotected backline. Their pick potential is also very high with Kha's deletion and Thresh's hooks, not to mention Ashe arrows.

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cant Hold Me Now,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J32nAdOR,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-04-30T20:43:29.475+0000)

The Lee has decent damage for the second to last teamcomp, combined with Shen their DPS is completely a threat. Not only that, they have 3 peeling champions, allowing Jinx to shine through as a hypercarry.

Also, you should specify this as 'Teamfight teamcomps'.

The last comp also works because Kha deals decent damage, Viktor has a ton of damage, he can both oneshot priority targets and be a source of DPS with his low cooldown spells and R, so Viktor is practically 1 and a half damage dealers.

Even if Viktor and Ashe die, Panth and Kha, while not being amazing at dishing out damage in a full blown teamfight, are both godly at clean up. If they both teams lose two damage dealers, Kha and Panth can easily take out the other. Or if this team loses their Viktor and Ashe but the other team loses their front line, Panth and Kha will wreak havoc on the unprotected backline. Their pick potential is also very high with Kha's deletion and Thresh's hooks, not to mention Ashe arrows.

With all comps, if the players gain a sufficiently strong lead early and/or are played by much much better players, it is possible to close out a win.

However, my experience has been that when you over-concentrate your damage unto 1 ADC (as with the Jinx example), you tend to lose in the long run if the game gets there.

I don't consider Lee Sin to have DPS, or at least enough to count as someone who can contribute to the Triple Damage Line. He is an early game trouble maker (Ganker) and a late game situational disengage/peel/pick character; I'd say he's between a glass cannon diver and a Half Tank. He's something that does not neatly fit in a comp. If you pick him, your damage should come from somewhere else.

For example, Darius LeeSin Anivia Jinx Nautilus is good

Yes Kha and Lee have a lot of "clean up" but whenever you have to rely on "clean up" to win team fights you greatly increase your probabilities of losing team fights. You don't want champions that can only "clean up" if everyone else played properly.

You want to keep things straight forward and reliable... front line goes on, AOE blasts from behind with ADC, team fight won. If front line messed up or someone on your team got picked, you can fix the team fight with proper and reliable application of damage.

With 2 divers (Lee and Kha) you are making things needlessly unreliable and risky.

To put it another way, you don't want an army that over specialise in shooting/executing wounded targets. You want an army that excels at the wounding part.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vlad Maine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J32nAdOR,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-04-30T23:24:28.367+0000)

With all comps, if the players gain a sufficiently strong lead early and/or are played by much much better players, it is possible to close out a win.

However, my experience has been that when you over-concentrate your damage unto 1 ADC (as with the Jinx example), you tend to lose in the long run if the game gets there.

Aye, but bruisers like Lee and Kha (he's basically a bruiser if he gets cleaver) are really strong if it devolves into skirmishes.

I don't consider Lee Sin to have DPS, or at least enough to count as someone who can contribute to the Triple Damage Line. He is an early game trouble maker (Ganker) and a late game situational disengage/peel/pick character; I'd say he's between a glass cannon diver and a Half Tank. He's something that does not neatly fit in a comp. If you pick him, your damage should come from somewhere else.

I think Lee counts as like half a carry. His execute and bases are very high.

For example, Darius LeeSin Anivia Jinx Nautilus is good

Yes Kha and Lee have a lot of "clean up" but whenever you have to rely on "clean up" to win team fights you greatly increase your probabilities of losing team fights. You don't want champions that can only "clean up" if everyone else played properly.

True, but you do a lot better in skirmishes.

You want to keep things straight forward and reliable... front line goes on, AOE blasts from behind with ADC, team fight won. If front line messed up or someone on your team got picked, you can fix the team fight with proper and reliable application of damage.

With 2 divers (Lee and Kha) you are making things needlessly unreliable and risky.

To put it another way, you don't want an army that over specialise in shooting/executing wounded targets. You want an army that excels at the wounding part.

Yeah you're weaker in teamfights, but you've a lot more strength in small fights, skirmishes, and picks.

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cant Hold Me Now,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J32nAdOR,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2017-04-30T23:30:02.658+0000)

Aye, but bruisers like Lee and Kha (he's basically a bruiser if he gets cleaver) are really strong if it devolves into skirmishes.

I think Lee counts as like half a carry. His execute and bases are very high.

True, but you do a lot better in skirmishes.

Yeah you're weaker in teamfights, but you've a lot more strength in small fights, skirmishes, and picks.

I understand that by design, dive characters like LeeSin KhazixMasterYi etc are SUPPOSED to be good at making picks and fighting in skirmishes while sucking a bit more in team fights compared to a traditional Mage, tanky Juggernaut, or Damage ADC.

However, in practice, there's no reason why you can't "clean up" or "make picks" or "skirmish" with a better well-rounded pick like Viktor or Cassiopeia or Annie . It might be a game design flaw but as of now...

if your team is full of diver type guys (ex Lee, Kha, Zed etc) you lose tons of team fight potential for marginally (and debatably) "superior" clean up.

Meanwhile if you picked a proper Triple Damage Line (ADC, Mage, Jug for example) you have a MUCH better rounded package while really not losing anything.

For instance...

Assuming equal skill, which team would you bet on?

Pantheon LeeSin Fizz Sivir Alistar

or

Malphite Rammus Vladimir Ashe Brand

The second team just seems to be the better team overall and honestly their pick and clean up doesn't get much worse (if at all) even if you don't count Ashe's ult (even if Ashe Ult was deleted). But their team fight is decidedly stronger because there is a clear and reliable Triple Damage Line running through Vlad, Ashe, Brand and maybe Malph (who becomes a late game armoured Jug style fighter/initiator).

The reliability of damage between the two sides if just huge as the game goes on.

WitchQueen Annie1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vlad Maine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J32nAdOR,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-01T01:20:25.326+0000)

I understand that by design, dive characters like LeeSin KhazixMasterYi etc are SUPPOSED to be good at making picks and fighting in skirmishes while sucking a bit more in team fights compared to a traditional Mage, tanky Juggernaut, or Damage ADC.

However, in practice, there's no reason why you can't "clean up" or "make picks" or "skirmish" with a better well-rounded pick like Viktor or Cassiopeia or Annie . It might be a game design flaw but as of now...

if your team is full of diver type guys (ex Lee, Kha, Zed etc) you lose tons of team fight potential for marginally (and debatably) "superior" clean up.

Meanwhile if you picked a proper Triple Damage Line (ADC, Mage, Jug for example) you have a MUCH better rounded package while really not losing anything.

For instance...

Assuming equal skill, which team would you bet on?

Pantheon LeeSin Fizz Sivir Alistar

or

Malphite Rammus Vladimir Ashe Brand

The second team just seems to be the better team overall and honestly their pick and clean up doesn't get much worse (if at all) even if you don't count Ashe's ult (even if Ashe Ult was deleted). But their team fight is decidedly stronger because there is a clear and reliable Triple Damage Line running through Vlad, Ashe, Brand and maybe Malph (who becomes a late game armoured Jug style fighter/initiator).

The reliability of damage between the two sides if just huge as the game goes on.

To put it another way, a strong Teamfight comp with a strong Triple Damage Line (conventional damage dealers) can both team fight and clean up.

An overly "divy" team comp doesn't team fight as well and its highly debatable if they clean up any better. Also, Clean Up is a non issue unless you can consistently and mechanically execute team fights right. Its just a lot more room for error and unreliability.

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