I feel like Riot didnt take Mages into account when they redid AD items.

Over Innsmouth··4 votes·441 views

I get that they were focusing on a class update for Marksmen, so considering Mages (or other roles like Tanks or Assassins and how the changes effect them) would've taken a backseat. But I still feel like Riot didnt think about the other classes the way they should have.

Remember when the new Mastery system came out, the Keystones? The community looked and saw that "Oh, there's a crit one - time to pull out Yasuo/Tryndamere and abuse the freelo", due to their intense synergy with crit. That instance feels like something at least one person at Riot should have noticed and done something about before the Keystones hit live, or even PBE.

It feels like the same thing is happening here, specifically with item 3156 .

I am a Mage/Tank main, so I willingly admit to being possibly inherently biased against Assassins. Part of item builds is using multiple items to cover multiple weaknesses, especially in Mage/Tank builds.

As a Mage, I get item 3157 for anti-AD, item 3001 for anti-AP, item 3174 item 3165 item 3070 item 3027 for mana sustain, item 3135 for penetration.item 3285 item 3089 for pure damage, and item 3116 for the utility and pseudo-tankiness the item offers, with various unique instances such as item 3152 oritem 3115 .

As a Tank, I need a hearty mix of AR, MR and Health in order to do my job properly. I might get a item 3053 oritem 3748 if I'm doing well and want to translate some of that HP into damage, but otherwise my build has to accommodate multiple different items to make up for the enemy damage types.

Enter Assassins, who by design don't need mana regen like Mages since their design is based around a single-rotation-kill (also since a good number of them don't use mana anyway: Akali Katarina LeeSin Rengar Yasuo Zed ), and unlike Tanks are purely focused on offensive stats; the difference being that Assassins only need stack AD or AP, while Tank need AR and MR. As a tradeoff, Assassins are squishy and if you manage to grab one, you can expect to kill them.

This is fine, since it's part of their design.

What isnt fine is when with one item grants an Assassin excellent defensive stats and excellent offensive stats, seen above: item 3156 .

If we make the comparison to item 3157 , it's not remotely fair. Hourglass doesn't start being useful the way you want it until you get Hourglass, whereas you've already invalidated a lot of Mages burst with just a Hexdrinker. Oh, what's that I hear? They can still move around and attack while the shield from Maw/Hexdrinker protects them from that nasty Mages burst, while Mages have to sit where ever they are and hope to hell that your enemies arent repositioning themselves to destroy you the moment you come out of stasis. Not to mention the AS/LS/SV passive you have to deal with when you pop the shield. And it gives Armour Pen?

Besides, the AD Hourglass is better considered to be item 3139 , since while Zhonyas stasis is anti-damage, Mercurial's is anti-cc.

If Maw only bolstered damage while giving mediocre/subpar MR stats, I'd be fine. If Maw barely bolstered damage while giving good MR stats, I'd be fine. Not both.

I don't want the solution for this to be in five months when Mages get their items redone to the same ludicrous extent that AD items are, that just tips the imbalance in the opposite direction.

Take off the ArPen, lower the MR, reduce the shield value, whatever. I feel like the item needs nerfs, and it's not like AD Assassins are wanting for damage sources, especially with the new and totally necessary item 3147 .

TL;DR - Nerf Maw, AD Assassins will be fine with it weaker (especially now that they have Duskblade), if they want anti-AP then build Mercurial's Scimitar.

11 Comments

SirPacifista1 votes

Yes? You did good in a game, which proves what, except that you are trying to boost your own ego?

The OP wrote quite a lot of text, at least have the decency of replying to him like an non-dick.

Dominick Destine1 votes

When I get home, I'll provide evidence for about 10 more matches.

Then if you whine more, I will provide evidence for another 10 matches.

SirPacifista1 votes

So more boosting your own ego? AND ignoring my point?

It doesnt matter how you do in your games, you are not representative of all player.

I SEE THAT you are good with Morgana and Sejuani and? Which point are you proving?

That you can substain mid with a Morgana? Or that Sejuani is tanky? This is neither an achievement nor does it help this board.

Its only:

"LOOK AT ME, YOUR POST ABOUT XXX BEEING BAD IS WRONG BECAUSE I WON A GAME WITH HIM"

Well... thats like saying that black people in america dont get discriminated, because you are black and dont get discriminated. Its shows nothing and wont help the conversation at all.

Dominick Destine1 votes

{quoted}

So more boosting your own ego? AND ignoring my point? I SEE THAT you are good with Morgana and Sejuani and? Which point are you proving? you are not representative of all player.

My post which was responding to what someone else brought up was deleted by Riot because it is not appropriate to discuss here, fair enough.... strange the person that brought up the topic and the others talking about it didn't get censored though, only me who was responding to it.

That being said; Your argument is that I'm just so good that I can make anything work? that I make the impossible possible...? that's flattering but not entirely accurate.

That's a slight strawman argument though, I know you are not saying I am a God among Men... but my point is the reverse; Morgana is pretty good and can top the damage charts on a regular basis. You sell Morg-chan and AP in general, quite short.

SirPacifista1 votes

FIRST, sry for mentioning something that was inapprobiate for this forum, didnt know that a short example is such a bis issue. (at least now we know that riot is actually reading what we write, maybe we should report any good post, so they read them ;D


I think i replied already to

That being said; Your argument is that I'm just so good that I can make anything work? that I make the impossible possible...? that's flattering but not entirely accurate.

No, this is not what an appopriate intelligent person would assume i would mean, with thinking this you are proving that you cant think clearly.

Let me make a clear example:

I can play Lux (highest win rate mid right now) and lose with her, -->does that mean that lux is at a bad position?

I can also play yze (Worst ap mid with 41% winrate) and rock a few games -->does that mean that Nunu is fine?


Lets make this clear with an actual example of mine. I have a winrate of over 80% with Veigar right now, and did had a KD of over 3 (without assists, i dont know why people count that in(and how)) ---> so Veigar is completly broken even through he has a winrate of 46.96% (when i posted this post)?

Thats EXACTLY why nobody cares about your games. YOU are not repretentative (Neither Me), the majority of player is.

Is that hard to understand? This is aslo not about 1 champion (who has 1.CC immunity with her shield, 2. has a good stun 3.Magic vamp 4. A freaking Aoe ult which combined withitem 3157 is devasting in this elo 5. buysitem 3157 fast)

Its about all champions. Play Ryze, Jhin, Azir or Mordekaiser and then tell me how ap champions are fine.

From all "AP" mid champions are like 15% with a positive win rate ( Morgana is third by the way with 53.07%, so WAY above the top statisticly) And 85 % with are under 50% (most under ~47%)

So if you can read these statistics then every idiot can see that they are not good of compared to AD Mids or in general . By the way CORKI and GP MID have higher win rates than Orianna BY 6%.

So, if you are disagreing with Me or Op, then try playing the AP champions who are bad off. so most of them, dont pick the 7. top, pick the ones who have a bad winrate

BUT as i mentioned earlier (i say this twice, so you dont go post a picture with another win)

IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW "YOU" OR "ME" PLAY, THERE ARE OVER 6.000.000 PLAYER.

And the statistics clearly states that Ap mid champions are FAR WORSE of than any other group. And come one, would it be bad if AP champions would have mor options to itemize against ap assasins? i mean AD champions can buy anything to counter AP damage item 3102 item 3137 item 3065 item 3091 item 3140 item 3139 item 3512 item 3111 item 3222 item 3155 item 3026 item 3156 ( excluded item 3001 thats for Ap)

And what can Ap champions do to counter AD even slightly? item 3157

WOW 12 Vs 1, now .... Soooooo which item i dont say they should get extremly strong against ad, or even get more tankier. Just a wider choice of itemization against AD like the op said would be nice, can we at least all agree on that?

SirPacifista1 votes

I used statistics and made my point clear, why aren't you answering? Looks like you couldnt handle the facts.

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