RNG number generators and game modes?

G0blinSlay3r·Sep 16, 2019·7 votes·7,495 views

TFT has ranked... ARAM does not due to RNG.

Can someone that has a brain enlighten me.

24 Comments

Get2Sep 16, 20192 votes

The RNG in ARAM is a lot more problematic than the RNG in TFT. You have absolutely no say in how an ARAM gets put together (effectively), and you can be given (a) a terrible champion that may also (b) be someone you have no clue how to play. That type of handicap can't be overcome except with mastering every single champion on the game or thereabouts.

But I do prefer ARAM anymore since SR has really made me frustrated. At least the handicaps in ARAM are generally more evenly distributed it seems.

DuskDaUmbreonSep 16, 20193 votes

Another good point. There might be more RNG in TFT, but it's also more manipulable and you can work around it easier.

If all I'm getting are Brawlers in TFT and I usually run Nobles, that's not as hard to deal with as getting an unfamiliar champion in ARAM. Even running assassins instead of sorcs isn't that much fundamentally different, even if they play nothing alike.

The greatest difference (in terms of mechanical and strategic skill) between comps in TFT is still less than the difference can be between similar champions in ARAM.

G0blinSlay3rSep 16, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Another good point. There might be more RNG in TFT, but it's also more manipulable and you can work around it easier.

If all I'm getting are Brawlers in TFT and I usually run Nobles, that's not as hard to deal with as getting an unfamiliar champion in ARAM. Even running assassins instead of sorcs isn't that much fundamentally different, even if they play nothing alike.

The greatest difference (in terms of mechanical and strategic skill) between comps in TFT is still less than the difference can be between similar champions in ARAM.

You mean that bs patterned RNG code riot wrote...? it's crap.

Get2Sep 16, 20192 votes

Yep. I mean there's a whole slew of info that drives an ARAM that you need to know before you ever even hit a load screen. And you shouldn't have to MOBAfire your way though the game to play it, but ARAM will force you to or risk being totally useless. The only thing you need to know about TFT before you get started is where you plan to start clicking to get the best item/champ on the table. Haven't played in a couple weeks in case something has changed.

But TFT is making the best decision given your options. ARAM is making the best of. .. well I have no idea where I am going with this. Give me Kat in an ARAM and I will be a concession stand with free hotdogs and pizzas made out of my cartoon body. Give me Zyra, and I will run the other team into the ground.

I don't think anyone wants to deal with that any more than they have to.

G0blinSlay3rSep 16, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Yep. I mean there's a whole slew of info that drives an ARAM that you need to know before you ever even hit a load screen. And you shouldn't have to MOBAfire your way though the game to play it, but ARAM will force you to or risk being totally useless. The only thing you need to know about TFT before you get started is where you plan to start clicking to get the best item/champ on the table. Haven't played in a couple weeks in case something has changed.

But TFT is making the best decision given your options. ARAM is making the best of. .. well I have no idea where I am going with this. Give me Kat in an ARAM and I will be a concession stand with free hotdogs and pizzas made out of my cartoon body. Give me Zyra, and I will run the other team into the ground.

I don't think anyone wants to deal with that any more than they have to.

Well it hasn't stopped adding limiters to champions in aram

Get2Sep 16, 20191 votes

Not sure I understand what you're saying here. Are you thinking that a ranked ARAM would have a limited roster? That might work, but then it wouldn't really be ARAM anymore I don't think.

MinardeSep 16, 20191 votes

But TFT is making the best decision given your options. ARAM is making the best of. ..

".. what you're given." TFT throws a bunch of randomness at you throughout the match while ARAM front-loads its randomness. There's upsides to each approach (e.g. only having to deal with small amounts of RNG at a time vs. being able to have a game plan in mind).

Personally, ARAM's front-loaded randomness feels less frustrating. Champ select is the primary source of randomness, so I can go into a game already knowing what I'm responding to. It's much easier to manage expectations. On the other hand, TFT's distributed randomness can result in constant losing gambles. It feels absolutely terrible to repeatedly find only pairs of champs or to get a 6th Negatron against auto-attack comps.

Also, I disagree about the burden of knowledge bit. There's a significant amount of knowledge needed before you start TFT (e.g. what is the best item/champ on the table and why?). If you're going into TFT blind, you could do the same in ARAM. There's even recommended items in ARAM that, while questionable at times, at least provide a starting point, unlike in TFT.

I will acknowledge that team-based vs. free-for-all does influence things. Failing in ARAM affects your entire team, whereas failing in TFT only affects yourself. However, I feel like that's not an ARAM-specific problem, and it's also handled by MMR. If someone has a bad game in Ranked SR (or TT), it affects their entire team, but everyone just moves on afterwards, more or less. If someone consistently has bad games, their MMR goes down until they start getting more appropriate matches.

DuskDaUmbreonSep 16, 20191 votes

I don't think ARAM actually has enough of a playerbase to support both a ranked and an unranked mode.

Get2Sep 16, 20193 votes

IDK, queues are pretty low for it compared to the other modes.

DuskDaUmbreonSep 16, 20191 votes

Mostly because of how easy it is to match them. It's just 10 people in a similar skill level.

However, last I saw, ARAM was at a 5-10% playrate depending on region. Splitting that in half...I don't think that's actually enough for a mode.

G0blinSlay3rSep 16, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Mostly because of how easy it is to match them. It's just 10 people in a similar skill level.

However, last I saw, ARAM was at a 5-10% playrate depending on region. Splitting that in half...I don't think that's actually enough for a mode.

But tft just gets released instantly with ranked. you don't even have numbers yet.. but you got ranked... no.. no no... no..

Get2Sep 16, 20191 votes

It makes absolute sense for that game mode, especially since they already knew they were going to have to reform that with sweeping overhauls. They also know where the game is headed, we do not. They also know how the genre pans out better than most people playing LOL do. I had never played that type of game mode before it came to LOL, for example. And it took me like 10 games to learn how to abuse the menial amount of knowledge needed to play the game.

ARAM has a lot more working against it for where ranked would make sense. I imagine you are probably a good player and know just about every champ on a level that would be needed to deal with ARAM. But I don't think that will help you much when you get stuck with 4 people who don't have that same knowledge.

Even 1 person on your team with no clue will be a huge burden that you may not be able to carry no matter how good you are.

When's the last time you had an all-tank-no-damage, all melee comp? I get at least 1/5 in my ARAMs. Do you really want to be subject to those conditions to validate how good you are?

If you want to do it that way, I say just do the whole ranked SR and go for a random pick. Hell, do a 5man premade ranked (or 4 or whatever it is, I don't have friends that play, so I have no idea) and all of you pick random.

That might actually be fun, honestly.

G0blinSlay3rSep 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

It makes absolute sense for that game mode, especially since they already knew they were going to have to reform that with sweeping overhauls. They also know where the game is headed, we do not. They also know how the genre pans out better than most people playing LOL do. I had never played that type of game mode before it came to LOL, for example. And it took me like 10 games to learn how to abuse the menial amount of knowledge needed to play the game.

ARAM has a lot more working against it for where ranked would make sense. I imagine you are probably a good player and know just about every champ on a level that would be needed to deal with ARAM. But I don't think that will help you much when you get stuck with 4 people who don't have that same knowledge.

Even 1 person on your team with no clue will be a huge burden that you may not be able to carry no matter how good you are.

When's the last time you had an all-tank-no-damage, all melee comp? I get at least 1/5 in my ARAMs. Do you really want to be subject to those conditions to validate how good you are?

If you want to do it that way, I say just do the whole ranked SR and go for a random pick. Hell, do a 5man premade ranked (or 4 or whatever it is, I don't have friends that play, so I have no idea) and all of you pick random.

That might actually be fun, honestly.

yeah sadly my friends list will remain empty till i'm no longer pissed at riot.

Get2Sep 16, 20191 votes

If your frustration is anything like mine, I imagine that might be a really, really long time. If ever. I keep trying so hard to find another game, but I can't play them on my iPad and can't budget a new computer. Fortunately, Apple has their streaming service starting this week for games, and it looks like I have a lot to ponder with that. Hopefully enough to take a break from this game for at least a few days. Months. I mean months.

G0blinSlay3rSep 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

:(

If your frustration is anything like mine, I imagine that might be a really, really long time. If ever. I keep trying so hard to find another game, but I can't play them on my iPad and can't budget a new computer. Fortunately, Apple has their streaming service starting this week for games, and it looks like I have a lot to ponder with that. Hopefully enough to take a break from this game for at least a few days. Months. I mean months.

only 1 thing will let me find peace with riot. But riot hates me. So i might as well go get banned for doing nothing wrong.

DuskDaUmbreonSep 16, 20191 votes

It wasn't instantly released with ranked?
The sheer popularity of it even on the PBE, causing queue times of over 20 hours at times, are probably more than enough indication that it's popular

G0blinSlay3rSep 16, 20192 votes

{quoted}

It wasn't instantly released with ranked?

The sheer popularity of it even on the PBE, causing queue times of over 20 hours at times, are probably more than enough indication that it's popular

Release anything new and you should expect a influx. not magic there especially in a test space as prolific as pbe.

G0blinSlay3rSep 16, 20192 votes

{quoted}

It wasn't instantly released with ranked?

The sheer popularity of it even on the PBE, causing queue times of over 20 hours at times, are probably more than enough indication that it's popular

Release anything new and you should expect a influx. not magic there especially in a test space as prolific as pbe.

{quoted}

It wasn't instantly released with ranked?

The sheer popularity of it even on the PBE, causing queue times of over 20 hours at times, are probably more than enough indication that it's popular

i could release as FPS inside LoL and it will be a total success.

MinardeSep 16, 20192 votes

The original announcement for TFT already mentioned ranked along with an estimated timeline for it. Yes, TFT didn't technically launch with a ranked queue, but ranked was being planned before TFT even hit PBE.

Get2Sep 16, 20191 votes

You are probably right. I didn't dig that deep into the mode stats. I just know I am in games typically in under 30 secs fairly consistently. But I also apparently suck at the game, so that's not saying much.

G0blinSlay3rSep 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Mostly because of how easy it is to match them. It's just 10 people in a similar skill level.

However, last I saw, ARAM was at a 5-10% playrate depending on region. Splitting that in half...I don't think that's actually enough for a mode.

Fact TFT could have folded 1 month later.

SmashinBobSep 16, 20191 votes

I would absolutely love aram ranked!

preternaturalSep 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

TFT has ranked... ARAM does not due to RNG.

Can someone that has a brain enlighten me.

because people dodge aram games because they can see their RNG beforehand. you can't dodge a tft game you only see your RNG once you're in the game and it's akin to shuffling a deck of cards. if the rng is seen before the game begins then it's invalid for a contest. if ARAM had an hour long dodge penalty or something then sure we could talk about ranked aram cause the game would have already started for most participants.