Hey Riot, you know Kog wasn't actually a hyper-carry pre-rework, right?

Rebonack·Sep 13, 2016·1 votes·518 views

I mean Trinity/BorK Kog here. Old AP Kog was arguably a hyper-carry. But you've decided to toss AP Kog into the dumpster, so we won't be focusing on that build.

His early game was shitty, his mid game was solid, and he didn't really get much better or worse late game. That's as opposed to an amazing early game that drops off (see: Graves) or a meh early game that scales exponentially stronger (see: Twitch). Since pre-season, Kog has eaten base stat nerfs in addition to the Ult change that wrecked his poke. This revert isn't going to turn him into a hyper-carry. He'll still be a mid-game champion, just worse than he was before. And he wasn't particularly great before, either.

If you guys want Kog to actually be a hypercarry it's going to take some effort on your part to pull it off.

5 Comments

Akali is SO HOTSep 13, 20162 votes

Old KogMaw was the definition of an immobile hyper carry. That's why you saw teams dedicated to just protecting KogMaw. As long as he had protection all you needed was him to kill everyone on the enemy team. He was all the damage you needed come late game.

RebonackSep 13, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IbxQizT7,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-09-13T17:14:45.076+0000)

Old KogMaw was the definition of an immobile hyper carry. That's why you saw teams dedicated to just protecting KogMaw. As long as he had protection all you needed was him to kill everyone on the enemy team. He was all the damage you needed come late game.

Old Kog was strongest mid game. His damage was good come late game, better than early game dominate champs certainly, but he never held a candle to true late game scalers like Twitch and Vayne. Kog topped the damage charts not because of his 6% hp OnHit, but because his poke used to chunk people for 400 damage without any items. Teams were built around Kog not because auto-attack damage was better, but because his long range made him easier to protect than 550 range Marksmen.

Kog was good for closing out mid-game, that's why he was picked at the LCS level. The upper echelons of League rarely make it into the deep late game where actual hyper-carries shine.

ZielmannSep 13, 20161 votes

AP Kog needed the nerf it got.

As for the revert on the W, it definitely moves things into the right direction, and will put him in a place where they can more easily make the modifications to put him where they want him in terms of damage and scaling through the game. Do I expect that simply from the W change, he'll be in a perfect state? Hardly. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he ends up needing a few more tweaks, but this puts him in the right direction.

It'll be interesting to see how he fits with the current item environment, now that he can actually build AD (no reduced scaling on the W autos). And with the changes to trinity force, it'll be interesting to see if he still is best with that build. I wouldn't be surprised if he's best going more the route we've been seeing Ashe/Jinx build lately.

RebonackSep 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

AP Kog needed the nerf it got.

As for the revert on the W, it definitely moves things into the right direction, and will put him in a place where they can more easily make the modifications to put him where they want him in terms of damage and scaling through the game. Do I expect that simply from the W change, he'll be in a perfect state? Hardly. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he ends up needing a few more tweaks, but this puts him in the right direction.

It'll be interesting to see how he fits with the current item environment, now that he can actually build AD (no reduced scaling on the W autos). And with the changes to trinity force, it'll be interesting to see if he still is best with that build. I wouldn't be surprised if he's best going more the route we've been seeing Ashe/Jinx build lately.

I'll be clear here. I'm not saying that Riot's plan is bad. I'm just saying that dumpstering a champion until they get back to him months or years later always feels like a pretty awful thing to do.

ZielmannSep 13, 20161 votes

Let's hold off on the speculation and wait until the new Koggy is actually released into the wild before declaring what his state is going to be after this change. What I was getting at, indirectly, with my last paragraph is that we've never seen Koggy with the old W working with the current item/mastery environment. Will he need tweaks? Maybe, maybe not. Will this render him complete garbage until he gets those tweaks? We don't know, but I kinda doubt it.