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So why is Urgot getting nerfed?

ShadowBash··14 votes·6,837 views

There are about 15 other champs in this game that need nerfs before one of the least played champions in the game, don't you think? Zed

32 Comments

RiotMeddler18 votes

We're targeting a soft buff with the Urgot changes overall. Adding an AOE fear to his ult's a decent amount of power though, so we're currently trying to figure out how much power we will or won't need to cut elsewhere to make that addition. For context that AOE fear is targeted in particular at allowing Urgot to ult without it being as suicidal as it often is in later game teamfights (bonus secondary benefit: strong thematic resonance).

Vincenzoooo3 votes

Whenever i play or see Urgot using his ultimate, 70% of the time he got cc-ed while channeling, so i see the new AOE fear as an unreliable, not necessary buff. Beside, seeing his ultimate is short range, deals no damage, can be qss, break while cc-ed, i'd rather play Blitzcrank if i want to catch someone off-guard. Sad but true.

Photos of Ghosts2 votes

It's way above the average ADC's range. Point and click grab, although channeled.

Vincenzoooo2 votes

Only after 11 tho. The rank 1 ult range is 550. Not wayyyyy above my friend.

Insanity Song1 votes

{quoted}

Whenever i play or see Urgot using his ultimate, 70% of the time he got cc-ed while channeling, so i see the new AOE fear as an unreliable, not necessary buff. Beside, seeing his ultimate is short range, deals no damage, can be qss, break while cc-ed, i'd rather play Blitzcrank if i want to catch someone off-guard. Sad but true.

are sadly skarner with ghost

LadyRenly1 votes

{quoted}

We're targeting a soft buff with the Urgot changes overall. Adding an AOE fear to his ult's a decent amount of power though, so we're currently trying to figure out how much power we will or won't need to cut elsewhere to make that addition. For context that AOE fear is targeted in particular at allowing Urgot to ult without it being as suicidal as it often is in later game teamfights (bonus secondary benefit: strong thematic resonance).

I played Urgot when he was free last year, back when he was considered a joke and fell in love with him immediately. The fact that you guys had buffed his shield by giving it a mana ratio was pretty radical and I figured you guys were going to leave him be with that buff until his eventual rework(Maybe he will be better, but it will still be a sad day for me, like a parent having to let a child leave the nest)

Adding a fear is definitely something that is thematically awesome, because fear, no, Urgot is the mind killer, but if it requires a tradeoff, I'm not sure if it's worth it in the end.

His ult is definitely weird when it comes to teamfights, but Urgot isn't alone in that regard (Jhin ult will get himself killed in the middle of a fight)and I think it is something that should be used smartly, preferably duels.

Urgot has a weird identity as an "anti marksman marksman bruiser caster anti assassin assassin" but I think nerfing his W and passive will make him weaker to assassins, and a part of me feels that this is partly motivated due to the release of the new Duskblade item to promote people to play assassins like Talon and Zed and get rid of an annoyance who may get in the way of that. Am I wrong here?

Urgot isn't a free win against an assassin, but he has lots of outplay potential that makes it worth it so it makes me a little sad to see that dampened , even if it means more power for teamfights.

Thank you for the reply though, nice to see time taken for old Urgot

ShadowParker2 votes

Well. If you happen to need to add a bit more power, activating his shield to apply max stacks of passive would be a nice place to start! Or if that's too strong, have it be next spell cast/ auto.

Just a small qol.

L0ve Is Blue5 votes

So basicaly you are giving power to a weak champion, but also removing some power from him?

?????????????

RiotMeddler14 votes

That's the plan, yes. We want to make a change to his ult that will make his play pattern a bit more cohesive. That change (the fear) adds more power to Urgot than we want to however, given he's got some pretty problematic counterplay issues still if he gets ahead. As a result we're looking to remove some power elsewhere at the same time to avoid buffing him more than desired.

ScurvyNave10 votes

Inquiry:

If Urgot is getting a soft nerf to compensate for the buff the fear on his ult will give him why isn't this strategy implemented for other changes such as

Zed and item 3147 which is getting really annoying to fight lately

or

The XinZhao changes.

A lot of people already pointed out how strong/ovepowered these changes were going to make them and yet they went through to live. Whereas, we manage to cut off Urgot at the pass?

I'm just concerned that some champions seem to get brought back into balance much faster than others who get to linger in OP land forever.

It was the same with Swain and Anivia getting nerfed immediately once Deathfire touch got strong and yet Brand remained relatively untouched. Why the bias?

MrWasjig1 votes

Because Riot plays favourite. Simple as that :P

Nagoh Shan6 votes

You've explained Urgot, Ez, and Ryze, but no one has provided any insight as to why Viktor is getting nerfed despite everyone scratching their heads about it and multiple threads asking.

Are we going to get an explanation as to why a middle of the pack midlaner drew a nerf?

Slack King3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nagoh Shan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IQdKZpy6,comment-id=0000000300000001,timestamp=2016-02-13T20:43:53.551+0000)

You've explained Urgot, Ez, and Ryze, but no one has provided any insight as to why Viktor is getting nerfed despite everyone scratching their heads about it and multiple threads asking.

Are we going to get an explanation as to why a middle of the pack midlaner drew a nerf?

Middle of the pack win loss wise, isnt the same as being good or bad. Viktor is still a very strong safe pick into anything. Strong clear, zone control dueling and aoe dmg. That deathray dmg nerf will hardly bug him

Nagoh Shan1 votes

I didn't say middle of the pack winrate. His winrate is in the low end, not middle, but I was understanding that he has unique strengths which should be considered.

One of which is waveclear which is what is being nerfed.

Slack King1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nagoh Shan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IQdKZpy6,comment-id=000000030000000100000000,timestamp=2016-02-13T21:37:43.552+0000)

I didn't say middle of the pack winrate. His winrate is in the low end, not middle, but I was understanding that he has unique strengths which should be considered.

One of which is waveclear which is what is being nerfed.

I feel he has fallen out of flavor, same reason I rarely see Azirs anymore. The nerf will prob make his play lower, why play Viktor when you can just play lux

Nagoh Shan2 votes

Because he clears better and has kill pressure outside of ult.

Both of which are being nerfed.

GigglesO5 votes

{quoted}

however, given he's got some pretty problematic counterplay issues still if he gets ahead.

So other champions that get ahead don't have problematic counter play... where if they get ahead they pretty much stay ahead? Champs like... Zed Fiora LeeSin Riven Rengar Darius Garen Annie Talon Draven DrMundo TahmKench Fizz Yasuo Graves

Something behind the scenes is going on here... you guys have conflicting design values. You let some champs dominate for long periods of time, but other champs if they see play within a week they get nerfed...

Kingsgrave3 votes

{quoted}

So other champions that get ahead don't have problematic counter play... where if they get ahead they pretty much stay ahead? Champs like... Zed Fiora LeeSin Riven Rengar Darius Garen Annie Talon Draven DrMundo TahmKench Fizz Yasuo Graves

Something behind the scenes is going on here... you guys have conflicting design values. You let some champs dominate for long periods of time, but other champs if they see play within a week they get nerfed...

Urgot is a long range ADC Tank when ahead. Thats why he is far more problematic than any of the Champions you listed.

GigglesO1 votes

{quoted}

Urgot is a long range ADC Tank when ahead. Thats why he is far more problematic than any of the Champions you listed.

"anti-carry" that is what he is supposed to do.

Kingsgrave3 votes

{quoted}

"anti-carry" that is what he is supposed to do.

Thats why hes problematic. He should counter carries based on how he plays not be entirely designed for the sole purpose of shutting them down. This isn't Dota.

Also unlike every other long ranged character he is super tanky, thats problematic because the counter to Range is supposed to be "Focus him"

sp4414 votes

The problem isn't when Urgot gets ahead, it's that he's a total fucking nightmare to lane against. If he doesn't fuck up, you're not going to farm without taking about 400 damage without being able to do dick about it.

And I am a huge Urgot main, I know. The most annoying part of the game for me is the laning phase because I already know that I am going to dominate it with ease.

Though I am not certain that these changes are something that Urgot strictly needs, mind. I mean, I am aware that his issues aren't going to be fixed with anything shy of a Sion-level rework, but I don't quite see how the fear field is supposed to help. Make him a bit more impactful during Teamfights, I suppose?

GigglesO3 votes

{quoted}

The problem isn't when Riven gets ahead, it's that he's a total fucking nightmare to lane against. If he doesn't fuck up, you're not going to farm without taking about 400 damage without being able to do dick about it.

And I am a huge Riven main, I know. The most annoying part of the game for me is the laning phase because I already know that I am going to dominate it with ease.

I fixed it for you.

sp4414 votes

Imply that I main a garbage champion like Riven ever again and I will give you cross looks whenever you're shopping for milk and eggs.

Paress1 votes

Urgot didn't need to take those basic abilities nerf because he's one of those that have zero mobility, he'll always have counter play. Oh yeah, he got his ult; yet it puts him in front of everyone

taleofsonata2 votes

{quoted}

That's the plan, yes. We want to make a change to his ult that will make his play pattern a bit more cohesive. That change (the fear) adds more power to Urgot than we want to however, given he's got some pretty problematic counterplay issues still if he gets ahead. As a result we're looking to remove some power elsewhere at the same time to avoid buffing him more than desired.

In what world does an Urgot Gets ahead? I'd rather face a urgot who gets ahead than a Zed or a Talon that just delete an entire team by pressing R. Urgot has tons of counterplay, Easy dodgable skillshots, he relies too much on his E to be able to spam his Q.

LoL Ergo Urgot2 votes

I don't feel the nerfs were necessary, though I understand why they were done. I've noticed the I can only make the fear feel like it made a difference twice a game? Betwixt being cc'ed, my team killing the squishy I snagged (before I swap), Olaf , item 3140 , or my team not being near me to make use of that 1.5 seconds.

I feel in solo Q, this change will give Urgot a few really great ult moments that could really change things around. And I really love this change thematically. "They shall know fear."

In organized 5 man, higher elo play, this could really be strong. Not sure though, that isn't my realm.

Finally. the only nerf that felt justified was the reducing the duration of his shield. He doesn't need a shield to be up that long especially come late game when he has 45% cdr.

Ecodeath4 votes

that doesnt explain the removal of the AP ratio

urgotdangit1 votes

That's sort of an odd line of thinking, though. You're going to nerf his uninterruptable, usable sustain for a "you can use this sometimes, maybe, if these myriad other situations don't exist" buff.

I suggested something similar on an Urgot rework thread back in March of 2014, but tie it instead to his W. Give him an option to pop it early for a fear, or ride it out for the damage reduction/slow component. It would synergize nicely with R, and would be usable more than once a minute. Also, it's called Terror Capacitor. I don't usually look at shields and scream in fear for my life. Just a thought.

EliseOP1 votes

These changes will help urgot greatly in mid/lategame teamfights. Time his ult correctly and it will be super strong (combo with malph/ori) Adding power to his ult and cutting some of his binary e q combo is a good way to go ! (Everything of urgots power is in his q) And after all he got a 2 ad base buff ;)

3TWarrior2 votes

actually, as someone else mentioned, a lot of his power comes from his low cooldown shield combined with his distanced spam to keep him alive

Kholdstare131 votes

Yes, deleting the one map that he dominates is going to be a HUGE nerf for crabman's numbers.

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