This makes no logical sense from a thematic perspective or a gameplay perspective. It's honestly just fucking stupid. An instant, insanely high damage nuke that can stun an entire team. Why the fuck does that exist. Honeslty, a cast time would be really nice on it.
Prospector Pete24 votes"We must make Veigar's stun on a delay, but Annie's is fine."
luckmallory9 votesAnnie's is her ult, veigars is not
Prospector Pete11 votesAnnie's does 1000 damage plus it summons a pet, Veigar's does not.
luckmallory4 votesYou must of never read the damage tooltip on veigars ult mate
l Main Renekton2 votesIt doesn't do damage.
luckmallory6 votesVeigar's ult doesnt do damage? lol since when
l Main Renekton10 votesHe was obviously implying the stun.
luckmallory5 votesIf he is allowed to compare Veigar's basic abilit ystun to annie's ultimate stun i can throw in that his ult one shots people. They are completely different champs with different kits. Veigar is a single target nuker and annie is a control mage. If you group and get 4 man tibber stunned, you deserve it, same as if you group and get 4 man veig stunned and then watch someone get deleted by his ult.
Balmor06 votesAns she can stun with every dmg ability and has low cd and can build fairly tanky as a mage that can one shot carryes has a point and click stun and aoe basic ability stun and a ult stun that does burst dmg and sticks around to deal more dmg just to ad salt to the wound
SnugglePuggle948 votesShe is already short ranged as it is. Putting a cast time on her ult will drastically nerf her and her strong play style. I mean since she has a long width and big circle of her ulti, along with having to set a place to cast it, essentially making it a skillshot, can already make it hard for people who aren't that good with her. I mean I'm level 4 mastery with Annie, and sometimes those with a lot of mobility (ahem, the bogus 
and 
), I've missed my ult-stun combo a good many times. I'm mostly dead if I do or lucky to get away if they are low and can't retaliate. She's fine as is. Learn to play against her and stop QQing about a champ that's in a good spot.
BlackEyesBlue8 votesI'd like to see her actually THROW THE DAMN BEAR!
Then, It could work like Starcall, make it a near instant if its right next to Annie, and make it take 1.5 seconds if she's throwing it max range.
Steelflame4 votesHaving her ult have that much a delay would mean she would have to get an insane buff. We can't buff her damage/tankyness, so it would have to be her range. You want her range to go up a lot? This is how you get that.
BlackEyesBlue1 votesIt's called a nerf... They aren't always accompanied by compensation buffs. There's no reason to change ANYTHING if they applied this change.
kunkudunk4 votesActually her ult taking 1.5 seconds to land would be a huge nerf as anyone not already cced would just move out of it. The area isn't actually that big it is just instant so it is good for catching poor positioning. So yes, a 1.5 second landing time would need a buff to go with it, even if it is just an aoe size buff.
BlackEyesBlue1 votesYou did see that I said it should be near instant if she launches it right next to her right? :P
the 1.5 would be if she throws full distance.
kunkudunk1 votesYes and the full distance is 650 range I believe, not really that impressive, so that would be way to long at max range. 1.5 seconds is a huge amount of time, double the delay of veigars stun which everyone claims is impossible to land. That change would only make the skill useful point blank unless you have a sej or something on your team. Don't get me wrong, I would love the ability to have a travel time to watch tibbers fly through the air and land, but 1.5 seconds is too long.
Abyssphere1 votesIt's called a nerf... They aren't always accompanied by compensation buffs. There's no reason to change ANYTHING if they applied this change.
You sound like the guy who worked on Veigar's "rework" a few months back. You do not take an instant ability, put it on a gigantic delay and then fail to buff in compensation. Your idea would just make her the latest in the long line of champs who were given sub-40% win rates this year. 1.5 seconds, seriously? Why would anyone ever pick her again?
BlackEyesBlue1 votesPeople still play Veigar don't they? :P
So now she has to get in close and stun w/ her W to set up her wombo, or take the chance someone will dodge her ult! It's called positioning and decision making! Like lots of other champs have to do. :P
Also you seem to be of the assumption that the landing zone would be visible. I never said that. People would have to make an educated guess where Tibbers would appear. Now the move has some counter play other then buying 
. Instead of press R to win!
FrozenXylaphone5 votesAnnie is slow and has little else besides her ult. Once she uses it, you have a large window to abuse her. It is also easy to tell that she is going to do it to you as she slowly walks up to you with the stacks up or 1 stack off.
Lugg2 votesyou have a large window to abuse her.
What window, The one where you are in fountain for 60 seconds waiting to revvie?
But seriously, Annie has the EXACT same problem Veiger had with his stun and they nerfed him.
FrozenXylaphone2 votesWhat window, The one where you are in fountain for 60 seconds waiting to revvie?
But seriously, Annie has the EXACT same problem Veiger had with his stun and they nerfed him.
Annie ult doesn't one shot unless you are already wounder. She has to follow up a bit afterwards giving you many options like Zyona, troll pole, flash, dashes, etc. 1 v 1 mid most Annie kills come from ignite ticks after the combo as you are walking away not her actual burst. You also don't wait 60 seconds until late game. And the point is Annie is now drastically weaker for quite some time, that your allies can take advantage of if you actually died.
Lugg2 votesYou are still ignoring the fact that Tibbers has zero counterplay. That is why Veiger got nerfed and that's why Annie needs nerfed. There needs to be a half second delay where she throws Tibbers. Of course she will need some sort of compensation buff, but that would be fair.
As for the Annie ult one shotting you, 90% of the game you will not be at full health, and the Annie ult combo will kill you pretty much ever times since it is completely before you come out of the stun. Once again, zero counterplay.
FrozenXylaphone2 votesYou are still ignoring the fact that Tibbers has zero counterplay. That is why Veiger got nerfed and that's why Annie needs nerfed. There needs to be a half second delay where she throws Tibbers. Of course she will need some sort of compensation buff, but that would be fair.
As for the Annie ult one shotting you, 90% of the game you will not be at full health, and the Annie ult combo will kill you pretty much ever times since it is completely before you come out of the stun. Once again, zero counterplay.
Veigar can combo you every 18 seconds at rank 1 on his e.
Annie can combo you with the mentioned tibbers every 120 seconds at R rank 1 and it is conditional to her holding her stacks. This means if she stacks up before a teamfight, she is using no abilities before her initiation and before she finds the setup she wants for the ult or she has to build them up again.
Veigar just says not on cd, stun die.
The counterplay is understanding how Annie works and how long it takes for her cd and passive to build. Also, in laning when she is holding a stun for a chance to tibber combo you, she can't push the wave of minions without losing her stacks.
Lugg1 votesAnnie's ult combo does WAY more damage than the Veiger combo unless he uses his ult or it's late, late game. That pretty much negates the CD difference, which can get down to 48 seconds btw.
Annie can still hold her stun and push waves, it's just slower since she isn't using abilities and if you try to do anything about it, you die.
I think giving Annie's ult a half second delay is completely fair. It allows counterplay and you can buff another part of her kit to compensate for the loss. I really don't understand why you don't think this would be fair.
Abyssphere1 votesAnnie's ult combo does WAY more damage than the Veiger combo unless he uses his ult or it's late, late game. That pretty much negates the CD difference, which can get down to 48 seconds btw.
Annie can still hold her stun and push waves, it's just slower since she isn't using abilities and if you try to do anything about it, you die.
I think giving Annie's ult a half second delay is completely fair. It allows counterplay and you can buff another part of her kit to compensate for the loss. I really don't understand why you don't think this would be fair.
What would you actually buff in exchange for the delay, out of interest? She has absolutely no mechanics beyond her damage and stun, so if you make her stun unreliable ... ? You're hardly gonna increase her burst even further.
Lugg1 votesPersonally, I would increase the Range on Tibbers to 800, since there is now counterplay. And I would change her E to reflect ALL attacks, not just auto attacks. This would be a good thing for her since the vast majority of damage she receives is from abilities, not AAs. Plus, it makes her a less attractive target, which is good since she is pretty squishy overall. Or you could make attacks against her with E up slow the attacker's AS and MS.
I think these would even out her kit and still allow her to be viable.
SymbolicFear1 votesIt just wouldn't be fair... she is already one of the most immobile champions in the game. And since when does Veigar Combo do less than Annie??? Veigar has WAYYYYY more damage all around.
FrozenXylaphone1 votesYou are still ignoring the fact that Tibbers has zero counterplay. That is why Veiger got nerfed and that's why Annie needs nerfed. There needs to be a half second delay where she throws Tibbers. Of course she will need some sort of compensation buff, but that would be fair.
As for the Annie ult one shotting you, 90% of the game you will not be at full health, and the Annie ult combo will kill you pretty much ever times since it is completely before you come out of the stun. Once again, zero counterplay.
That is an oversimplification to why Veigar got nerfed. Having no counterplay does not inherently mean the ability is overpowered or even oppressive. We know this because many champions are like this. Malzahar R is instant cast and he can e and then r then ignite you just as fast as Annie can flash tibbers. Syndra ult kills you the same as tibbers without needing a stun and similarily requires a small build up just like Annie does. Logically there is no reason to single out Annie other than fotm plz nerf this at work. As to the Veigar argument, 120 seconds before a combo as opposed to 18 seconds is very easy to see. Annie also usually requires flash to get in range where Veigar did not. And lastly, Veigar doesn't have a visual on him that says "don't come close now" and that also when not on him says "they can't stun you harass them now"
Lugg1 votesYou do know that Annie can get her ult CD down to 48 seconds right? Plus her ult is actually easier to hit than old Veigers stun. Plus, you could QSS old Veiger and get away from half the damage, you can't do that with Annie even if you QSS. As for Syndra, if she ults me, I have time to Zyhonas and take no damage at all.
I do understand your argument, and it isn't bad. It's just that personally I am very big on counterplay, and Annie doesn't offer much at all when she ults.
FrozenXylaphone1 votesYou do know that Annie can get her ult CD down to 48 seconds right? Plus her ult is actually easier to hit than old Veigers stun. Plus, you could QSS old Veiger and get away from half the damage, you can't do that with Annie even if you QSS. As for Syndra, if she ults me, I have time to Zyhonas and take no damage at all.
I do understand your argument, and it isn't bad. It's just that personally I am very big on counterplay, and Annie doesn't offer much at all when she ults.
by the same logic veigar can get his combo cooldown to around every 7.2 seconds
so the cdr arguments is a bad one
Lugg1 votesTrue, I will concede that one.
SymbolicFear1 votesThere is counterplay... its called paying attention kido. As an annie player myself. I lose more often than not when it comes down to my opponents actually paying attention to what my team is doing.
If Annie needs a nerf, so does every other champion in the game. If you have so many issues with annie, counter pick her or read up on her.
Lugg1 votesI actually enjoy playing Annie, but i'm not so blind to see the lack of counterplay in some of her kit.
I know Annie mains are terrified of a nerf to Tibbers due to what Riot did to Veiger. However, I would like to think Riot learned a lesson from that and won't under-compensate Annie like they did Veiger.
SymbolicFear1 votesYou aren't realizing just how balanced Annie is as a champion... You are looking at this in the sense of a 1v1 against annie, in which case, yeah, she might be overly strong, but this isn't a single player game. This game is about teamwork, and Annie is balanced in a team game... If she gets ganked, she is done for. She is squishy enough to demolish once it gets to that point, but if you don't take advantage of your team. You will lose.
Lugg1 votesThe problem is that once she hits 6, she can easily get a kill in lane. Once she starts snowballing, bringing in the jungler only makes it a double kill when her ult is available. So Annie is usually ahead after the laning phase. This makes her engages in teamfights very powerful. She can flash Tibbers 3+ members of the enemy team and you have instantly won the teamfight even if you manage to lock her down after her combo. Your team will be so low (if not dead) you can't effectively win the remaining fight.
That is why she isn't balanced at all.
Lowvyr1 votesAnnie ult doesn't one shot unless you are already wounder. She has to follow up a bit afterwards giving you many options like Zyona, troll pole, flash, dashes, etc. 1 v 1 mid most Annie kills come from ignite ticks after the combo as you are walking away not her actual burst. You also don't wait 60 seconds until late game. And the point is Annie is now drastically weaker for quite some time, that your allies can take advantage of if you actually died.
Have fun using an ability or item while stunned.
Ánnîe 5 votesProbably a little biased. i feel for veigar i really do and i dont think he should have had his stun changed to having a delay like that. That being said i feel the same way about annie. her reliable ult stun is literally THE ONLY THING SHE HAS GOING FOR HER. she has no mobility at all and extremely short ranges for a mid lane mage. she needs her reliable ult stun combo and even then she needs flash 90% of the time. its telegraphed when you see her have her stun and actually try to time when shes going to have her ult. if you keep tabs on her ult her flash and her stun you'll see it coming from a mile away. also spell shields ruin her day. as does hex drinker. people need to learn that "counterplay" comes in more than 1 form and paying attention to cooldowns, stacks for her stun, and summoner spells aswell as actual item builds all factor into annies counterplay. not to mention her horrible range.
Scrambled Anivia3 votesyes, lets get rid of everything instant, give everything counterplay so first bloods in lcs happen at 40 minutes.
[ /sarcasm]amumu is next. wtf instant huge aoe snare. stops you from auto attacking automatically. wow riot...
malphite too. nearly instant aoe knockup stun?? cmon man slow that crap down.
victor?? ult appears instantly AND CANCELS ALL CHANNELS? LIKE HULLOW?
Galio too man. just flash insta taunt an entire team while his team eats you. cmon riot wat are you doing
garen. build armor against garen then his ult does one thousand instant magic damage??? just...wtf
malzahar explanation not needed
[ /sarcasm]
GankLord1 votesTELL THE PEOPLE PLEASE TELL EM please get good at league build MR and maybe don't bunch together like idiots so maybe she has to choose wisely on who to use tibbers on.
darapier173 votesmaybe if it showed tibbers being thrown and becoming huge, WITHOUT highlighting the area, so people know he is coming, it would be better. 0.75sec cast time
Comrade Guylas2 votesTbh. There should at least be a very small delay on her ult, like a small fire/burn effect where shes about to place it, that'd be nice. :P 
Castman2 votesSeriously, might as well make her stun radius the size of Galio's Ult
CIownface1 votes*goes on boards sees complaints about tryndamere, riven, annie, garen, and vayne.
eh the usual stuff. Honestly right now only skarner is broken. And maybe Ryze idk did he get his nerfs already?
TurquoiseYoshi2 votesRyze was nerfed. 4 patches ago. I might take your argument more seriously if you kept up with the patches.
CIownface1 votesI didn't make an argument. And I mean other than that patch.
TurquoiseYoshi1 votesI felt like your argument was that now only Skarner and Ryze were broken.
He was pretty heavily nerfed in 5.12. I don't really know why you would need him nerfed further.
Caytheles1 votesWhat if.... we increase the range to where it can Go... BUT IN RETURN. Why not make her throw Tibbers like LMAOkai throws his sapplings? atleaste you can see it comming. instead of just a FUCK YOU in the face....
SlampieceHawke2 votesBecause as a 
player that would really make me cringe. too long of a travel time and it is huge overnerf to her. Too short of a travel time and Draven in the backline will get assblasted real quick. I would never count on the balance team to get this right unless it were at a snails pace. Would probably take at least 10 patches to balance it.