Boards›Gameplay

Adapting the philosophy behind stealth changes to Grievous Wounds

Grizzlpaw··1 votes·296 views

Stealth was reworked in the assassin update so that certain champions would no longer be revealed by pink wards. The reasoning for doing this was because it felt unsatisfying for part of a champion's kit to become negated because X champion bought Y item.

If a champion relies on a mechanic to properly do their job, and the counterplay around it is simply "buy this and it's fine" it presents an interesting balancing problem. You have to balance that champion around simply not having that mechanic avaliable to them in the majority of cases.

For example, Akali's twilight shroud, in the past, could be shut down completely just by placing a pink ward down in the area. Rengar could be spotted in stealth, vayne could be tracked down before she could use her brief stealth to kite. What does riot do to ballance champions around that? That was a problem that riot had to deal with for a long time before they made the change.

Grevious wounds presents a similar issue. That pesky Swain, Volibear, Warwick, Vlad, Mundo, ect. Healing too much? Just buy Morello or Executioners, and these champions will just have to figure out how to make due without. While it isn't a complete counter, it still presents a similar issue that stealth did. The other parts of these champion's kits have to be buffed to a point that they can still function even if part of their kit is negated... which just leaves their built in healing mechanic feeling underwhelming at best.

One proposed solution? Give these champions a way to counterplay Grevious wounds. Every champion listed (except vlad to an extent) is either short ranged or meele. Even Swain, who is ranged, has to be right on top of you for his healing to take effect. All an AP mage has to do, for example, is buy a morello and toss an AoE spell in their general direction and their healing mechanic is removed. This is more noticable for Volibear and Warwick, since their healing doesn't kick off until they fall into Morello's % health threshold.

Here's one way Riot could do it:

**- -Morellonomicon- - **

[REMOVED] Grevious Wounds **[NEW]**Active: Soul Shear - A delayed skillshot that does damage in a small AoE. Champions hit are also affected by Grevious Wounds for 6 seconds. 60 second CD.

Mortal Reminder

[REMOVED] Grevious Wounds **[NEW]**Active: Crippling Bolt - Fires an arrow in a line that deals damage to every champion it passes through. Champions hit are also affected by Grevious Wounds for 6 seconds. 60 second CD.

What does this mean for these champoins? You still have an answer to their self-healing, but these champions now have the option to look out for out for and evade these abilities. This would allow riot to place more power back into self-healing as a mechanic as these champions would not have to be ballanced around simply not having it avaliable in most cases.

Imagine how hype it would be in competitive play if the allied Twitch lands a clutch Crippling bolt onto the enemy adc Draven just before a 1v1, The draven lands a crit warlords proc onto the twitch which would heal him back to full, but instead he only heals to half. The twitch capitalizes on this and lands a quick auto > cask > contaminate combo for the kill.

It's certainly more interesting from a spectator's perspective than simply watching the twitch buy Mortal Reminder and win the duel by default.

What are everyone else's thoughts on this?

4 Comments

ChaddyFantome2 votes

Stealth was reworked in the assassin update so that certain champions would no longer be revealed by pink wards. The reasoning for doing this was because it felt unsatisfying for part of a champion's kit to become negated because X champion bought Y item.

False. The reason was because it made it impossible to balance champs with Stealth because the stealth could easily be hard-countered by a disposable 75g item instantly on demand with nothing for the champ in question to do about it.

You are using an ambiguity fallacy here.

If GW items had an active that when you used it, it released a gas like Sweeper and reduced all healing to 0 in that area until the gas cloud was destroyed, then you'd have a more comparable example, but even then it wouldn't be as bad because it would still be an active with a substantial CD as opposed to a 75g disposable item.

Unlike Vision wards, GW only reduces healing, as opposed to nullifying it. This is why Riot is okay with Sweeping lends leaving a shadow, and they added shimmer effects to stealth champions when they get hit while stealthed, as it gave means of counterplay without outright shutting down Stealth as a whole. It merely mitigates the effectiveness of it.

GW very much does the same here only mitigating healing as opposed to rendering it to 0.

-- Riot tried removing GW before, and it ended poorly as they had to nerf all healing based champions and mechanics to compensate. For Healing to "not feel oppressive" it basically by nature has to be so negligible that it doesn't have that big of an impact.

What ultimately happened was that Riot came to the conclusion that if Healing and regen are to ever be allowed to be strong and feel good to use, GW HAD to exist to keep it in check, lest all healing just suck.

Whats even more important to remember is that healing/regen ISN'T a champion specific mechanic. it is a mechanic that effects every champ in the game. Stealth is a champion kit specific mechanic. Not every champ has means of access to Stealth. it isn't quite comparable, even if certain champs kits are centered around the mechanic.

Saying GW hard counters Healing is closer to saying MR counters Magic Damage, than saying Vision wards counter stealth.

Glîtchy1 votes

So for Twitch jg to work like they intended, he should not be visible to pink wards then.

Grizzlpaw1 votes

Twitch's stealth is used for flanking or positioning. You use it before a fight breaks out. That's why it's called Ambush.

The pink ward changes were geared towards combat stealth.

Rengar is a unique case because his indicator essentially told the team "Put down a pink ward now" and you could shut him down.

franchise76761 votes

ww has so much life steal gw really doesn't bother him

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Grizzlpaw

My thoughts on Rengar
Gameplay39 comments
37
votes
Revert the Volibear nerfs
Gameplay12 comments
29
votes
Volibear has too much counterplay. What the rework needs to address.
Gameplay9 comments
11
votes
10 Indirect Nerfs that made Volibear unplayable
Gameplay15 comments
7
votes
Why Aurelion Sol shouldn't be nerfed (yet)
Gameplay5 comments
7
votes
Little reminder that Voli is near unplayable
Gameplay13 comments
5
votes