can we just address AP shaco already

Aatrox Eichmann·11/4/2019, 7:34:48 AM·47 votes·13,866 views

its a brainless 0 counterplay trashpick that used to be slightly hard to play due to the mindgames you had to play and the kit being suboptimal compared to the now broken batshit S-tier shaco kit.

they gave him too many QoL changes for him to be viable AP.

his boxes take out a quarter of an ADcarry's health bar without fail at level 1, makes going into bushes in lane impossible when played as a support, and during the midgame he has a free flash+stealth that allows him to take double combat summoners. he cannot be punished, cannot be outtraded and cannot be pursued, because he leads you into a box at some point or puts one in your path forcing you to avoid it, by which time his Q is back up. in the old times the only people that could use shaco AP are pink ward and a few other streamers, now all you have to do is run your clone under turret and get that instafear AOE annie ult.

Riot needs to realize that their attempts at forcing champions into multiple different roles are a horrible idea and leads to overtuned kits.

Pyke, Qiyana, Sylas, Ekko, Irelia, Akali and soon to be Senna all suffer from this since their massively overtuned kits made it so that the only window to punish them would only be tangible if the pilot fucks up, its like another azir situation except they don't admit it until they "assess the situation" and finally nerf the 55% WR champion after 2 months.

I honestly think they should start ripping shit out of his kit if he's allowed to have his AP playstyle, much like what they did with irelia and akali. even with true sight on his boxes they still fear you when you go in proximity, meaning its impossible not to be punished for attempting to clear them as a melee champion. while some may argue that you can just avoid them or wait for a ranged champ to clear them, this still doesn't make sense since he gets massive objective control, and requiring a ranged character to back you up for something that's of cooldown every 8-16 seconds or so means that he punishes half of league's roster.

when tryndamere built AP they shut that shit down in 1 month. I get that since tryndamere is a statstick with a flash on e and death defy on ultimate, making the changes more pressing, but Shaco has cc on 3 of his abilities and an AOE instant fear that can potentially be teamwide and can chunk as AOE or Burst as single-target. and riot even encourages this playstyle as evidenced by their rework comments.

last point: I realise you can auto his boxes to death before they finish their setup but unless youre Caitlyn lategame or he's actively putting them in plain sight you have no chance of taking them out in this fashion. besides, having to stop attacking shaco and instead autoing his box to avoid a fear is super dull of an idea.

64 Comments

Kovorix11/4/2019, 12:12:22 PM19 votes

Because the Shaco main brigade will come and tell you how bad their champion is no matter how broken he is.

Jesi Oni11/4/2019, 7:38:43 AM18 votes

I dont know why they dont remove either AD or AP from his kit and just balance him properly.

Sewer Side11/4/2019, 11:11:03 AM16 votes

Maybe stop chasing a Shaco then?

Literally, he has to lead you into boxes and his only reliable ability (Shiv) functions as an execute, not reliable poke.

He offers fuck all else except being a carrot when AP. Stop chasing the carrot without your sweeper.

Charmy Bird11/4/2019, 9:52:33 AM15 votes

I fucking hate shaco he is the most toxic champion proly in the game I was so happy when he was forgotten but no riot had to bring him back. There's legit no counterplay to this guy and even if u get lens his shitty boxes hit u anyway. In lens and pink ward his boxes should be deactivated and he needs some nerds to his q and w asap

Light of Madness11/4/2019, 5:45:35 PM10 votes

item 3364 item 2055 + brains = Shaco countered

SweedishGunner11/4/2019, 12:43:01 PM8 votes

He should be left in the garbage bin until he's reworked. Shaco players complained though so he got sweeping buffs and now we're left with this abomination.

Deathhawk88811/4/2019, 2:14:14 PM7 votes

Lategame Shaco boxes and can oneshot an ADC. I had a Xayah at 80% HP die to one Shaco box.

Daddy Ants11/4/2019, 5:23:17 PM7 votes

Shaco imo is in a similar situation to Kai'Sa.

They should either be AP or AD champions.

Not both.

Olath Quortek11/4/2019, 8:56:07 PM6 votes

I'm not saying he maybe isn't too strong at the moment, but honestly just stop trying to kill him unless he hard engages at the wrong time. If he is jungling don't overextend, like you shouldn't overextend in any game ever because every game has a jungler in it and if you overextend they will probably gank and kill you... If he is laning just shove wave and ignore him. All he can do is try to lure you into a stupid fight where he obviously has boxes; don't let him. Illaoi is bs too if your surrounded by tentacles and/or stand in her ult. Maybe he is brainless but if you fight him brainless that's your fault. Your ADC shouldn't ever let a box quarter their health at lvl 1; that's bad positioning and how many other champs can do the same thing? I'm certainly down to say his damage is too high but the entire game's damage is too high in general. You can play around him, just like you can play around most champions in some way or another. Just my thoughts.

Lazy Grandpa11/4/2019, 4:51:43 PM6 votes

so what it comes down to is you don't want shaco to be a champion?

tell your support to take early oracles if it's support shaco, as long as you don't get pushed in all day long he wont be using his boxes much. there shaco isn't a champion anymore.

when i play shaco support and i see the enemy come back to lane lvl 3 with oracle lens i already start hating life, even more so if it's range support.

later in the game randomly coughing in a direction will blow up any visible boxes, like they have lower health than the spammable heimerdinger turrets.

the difference between surviving a shaco and qiyana for example is that you can use your brain against shaco, but for qiyana you basically pray that she is garbage at the champion, much like riven and akali too.

well whatever happens, once all the sweaty meta sheep stop playing him he can exist as he is currently. only support seems to be AP too, in the jungle it's AD. but that makes sense pickign anything other than (cheap) ap or tank items in support is trolling, unless you're pyke i guess.

shaco is the only champ in the game i can think of off the top of my head who has 1 or 2 abilities pretty much hard countered by free item and 75g, which are all accessible at the start of the game.

he really shouldn't be as much of a problem as people make him seem. shaco is about on the middle of my list as champions i'm concerned about dealing with, far below other assassins and mages

Crescent Dusk11/4/2019, 5:08:30 PM5 votes

His box fear duration should be reduced to 0.5 sec and his blink's stealth needs a nerf in duration and cooldown.

He's way too safe for how much damage he does.

Safe assassins is an oxymoron and shouldn't exist.

My only answer to him is to virtually go Red Kayn or warwick to CC him to death and even then he may get away to constantly pop up and harass with his ranged nuke that for some reason also does a ton of damage on top of slowing the target.

Cotten Eyed Joe11/4/2019, 7:54:22 AM5 votes

[deleted]

Flemman11/4/2019, 5:24:30 PM4 votes

Box just need the teemo shroom/zyra plant health bar system for champion damage, that would fix a lot of issue imo

HyVee11/4/2019, 6:52:31 PM4 votes

QUICK Everyone down vote before riot sees

Hayaishi211/5/2019, 3:13:07 AM4 votes

The balance team can't get anything right. Jesus how hard can it be?

S0l0Cl0N311/5/2019, 1:11:34 AM3 votes

Shaco main here. I see a lot of complaining against shaco… hes still hard to play I don't understand why so many people are complaining. his kit now has some damage ya. NOTHING compared to 75% of any damage champs out there.

I mean seriously , think about it.

Compare shaco to lets see....

Katarina..... yah damage doesn't even come close.

Yasuo... yah nope

Darius?... cant even stack up against darius…

Draven? hah shaco gets two shot or one shot by draven MID game.

that's only to name a few.

IT DOES actualy take some skill to use shaco and win. he gets 3 shot by most champions mid game the only reason he lives is because of his stealth.

IMO shaco is not broken infact when compared to the champions above his impact is miniscule.

seriously the shaco nerf thing needs to stop , the new changes have infact improved the game.

you don't want him in your game ban him.

Mrs Qtpie11/4/2019, 9:10:52 PM3 votes

preach.

MorganFreemanBot11/5/2019, 4:10:55 AM2 votes

Box fear duration reduced 0.5 seconds. (most important change)

Box duration back upto 60 seconds

Sweeper disables boxes, OR boxes die in one auto from ANY champ. (second most important change)

Clone's explosion damage removed; with insta-fear + murder boxes, it ALSO having explosion damage is overkill.

What people don't seem to realize is that Shaco's E was made much more dangerous. Sure, it's not as pokey, but it's out-right murderous. And also that his safety (he was already pretty safe) is now pants-on-head r%%%%%ed.

IM ON SHAC0CAINE11/10/2019, 5:20:05 PM1 votes

just learn how to play vs an ap shaco : when you start the game : ask your supp to take sweeping lens and ward the bot lane bush asap :its easy and he can't do anything against it. Voila, shaco has lost laning phase.

HA I am Shaco HA11/7/2019, 4:03:55 PM1 votes

The point of the update was to make ap Shaco playable, and your point about him taking out a quarter of an adcs hp level 1 is absolutely pointless because it's always been like that so they can't nerf it. Also another one of your points asking Ap Shaco to be shut down is also pointless is because this was their main goal, to make Shacos builds as good as each other.