That normaly means hes freaking strong.
If he now also rocks the top winrate for each of these positions, you have to ask yourself what the hell RIOT is waiting for to nerf the shit out of this broken piece of crap!
Sona Ping3 votesA patch.
Penns1 votesCheckmate kek
Cowgirl Ed1 votes[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=I44GFxZ0,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-02-09T15:08:01.567+0000)
A patch.
LOL
LaughingMan111 votesSaying a champions should be nerfed just because he can play 3 different roles isnt very good grounds, i mean there are plenty of champions that can do more than 2 roles. The main reason why champions can fill more than one role is so we can have this mythical thing called diversity.
Raoul2 votesBut this champion being the best at all of these lanes is another thing!
LaughingMan111 votesGraves is so very far from being the best jungler and top laner. He's a really good ADC, but he wont ever be able to fill the role of a top lane or jungler the same way.
Edit: Really all having graves in addition to another ADC, just gives your team two ADCs. Like running Quinn top, or Kindred Jungle. Dual ADC isnt bad, but it has its flaws, just like every other team comp.
Beldair1 votesGraves may be strong but there is the lord of grief. The satan of the rift......Teemo XD
Definitely Bait2 votesTop lane he's the counterpick to melee champions. Legitimately it's his highest winrate lane unless the enemy picks a ranged top (quinn), poppy, or malphite.
Jungle the only champion currently beating graves out is Udyr. Grave's jungle clears are just too fast and he does entirely too much damage.
Adc is legitimately his worst role and statistically speaking his only bad matchups are corki (Often ban worthy) and Quinn (Low pick rate skill matchup).
http://champion.gg/champion/Graves/ADC http://champion.gg/champion/Graves/Jungle http://champion.gg/champion/Graves/Top
http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/graves http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/graves/top http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/graves/jungle http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/graves/adc http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/graves/middle
Literally the only role that graves isn't a good pick is support. Every other role has at least a 52% win rate across all elos (Excluding mid when you include bronze. That's only a 49.7%).
The incoming nerf should change this a bit. The question is how much will it change things.
LaughingMan111 votesBetter form of debate than the OP, ill give you that. But avg 8 kills per game, isnt enough of an average to say that he is the reason why games are being won, high win rate yes, but thats because most teams dont know how to handle back-dooring, which with 2 (or 3) ADC's should be a major strategy pull. Or, teams are having issues dealing with 2 (or 3) ADC's, both are pretty good probabilities. Short version, 2 ADC's is still a pretty new meta, and its only good because its new, once people figure out how to deal with it, it'll probably fall off in effectiveness.
Top lane - Although he does counter most top melee top laners, there are still a good chunk of top laners that can easily beat a ranged champ in a 1v1 as long as they play smarter. Most top laners i've met cant seem to figure out how to deal with ranged tops because they're so used to being melee vs melee that they just complain how OP it is, then feed. So its not Graves in specific, its across the board for all ranged vs melee in Top lane. People dont wanna learn how to fight vs ranged as melee, so they just complain its OP and whine for nerfs.
Jungle - Actually havent tried him there yet (I'm a jungle main) but although his clear time is probably through the roof due to his AoE AA, he has no real good form of CC, and as long as some one uses wards, and doesnt over extend, graves shouldnt be able to get in close enough to actually make a solid gank, I know he has his dash, which helps a lot for positioning, is also dependent on how much attention people pay to the map, and how safe they play. (Correct me if im wrong here) Counting Bronze/Silver into the formula (and probably low gold if my understanding is correct) Really skews the numbers IMO, since most people of that skill level barely understand what wards are, let alone map awareness or playing safe. It doesnt matter if they're being camped and know it, they push right up to enemy tower, get ganked and die. And some how think its not their own fault in the process. (Topic for a different conversation) So Graves being good in the jungle is more due to player error, than graves being really good. Having awesome clear and burst are important, but the skill of the people you're going in on have a huge impact on how well your gank goes off. If a champ has strong ganks, you should play safe and not let them get as good of a gank off, but alas it doesnt work that way.
ADC - Not much to say here, the only ADC's i can play are Ashe, and Draven. Lol I know graves has always been a good pick as an ADC as long as you have a tanky support with a stun.
TL;DR - Its not Graves thats the problem, its the player base not understanding how to work with more than one ADC on a team.
LaughingMan111 votesgj, you can post a photo. Win %'s although speak to how many times a champ wins, doesnt determine how well the champion does in a role.
Definitely Bait2 votesHe's one of the most common pick / bans in the Na lcs. Somewhere around 20 bans, 11 picks so far in NA that I've seen. Contested in around 80% of the matches. 2/3 of the matches he is picked have been jungle and the other 1/3 was top.
Is that a sign of poor performance? Would a poorly fit champion for either role be so hotly contested in professional play?
Actually a better question would be if graves isn't fit to the top or jungle role. Then why is he consistently performing adequately or well. Isn't it logical to say that he is overly strong if win rates, pick / bans, professional use, and play rates indicate that he is succeeding in a role ill fit for his gameplay style.
Meh, either way there is a relatively large damage nerf coming on the return portion of his Q we'll see what happens.
LaughingMan111 votesI dont think i ever said he isnt fit to do either role, or that his performance is poor, im just saying the biggest reason why its so effective is because its new, and people haven't learned to work around it yet.
Definitely Bait2 votesGraves is so very far from being the best jungler and top laner. He's a really good ADC, but he wont ever be able to fill the role of a top lane or jungler the same way.
I must of misunderstood this specific sentence in your previous post then. My bad. I took it as implying graves is ill fit or inadequate for the jungle role in comparison to other junglers and should not be used top or jungle .
LaughingMan111 votesAh, okay. By that i meant, by the time end game hits, hes just another ADC, id rather have the utility that the jungler or top laner tend to bring, is Graves able to do those roles well, yes. Does that make him the best choice, debatable. Having two ADC's is nice dont get me wrong, but it can back fire if the enemy team knows how to handle it, thats why most teams try to have 1 tank, 1 bruiser, 1 APC, 1 ADC, 1 support. Having a well balanced team is harder to deal with imo.
Raoul1 votesSo I guess in your eyes, Skarner right after the Juggernaut Rework was also fine and didnt need any nerfs?
LaughingMan111 votesI personally think skarner getting a rework was stupid to begin with, and honestly, after the rework he really didnt do anything different than before, his damage didnt really go anywhere, he was just mobile (irony for a juggernaut) the only difference between pre-change and post-change, is that people played skarner because he got changed.
ProfDrDeath1 votesCalm down. Sit on your hands.
Graves' reign of terror is over in another 16 hours.
Hardstuck G41 votesThere's another champion who can fill 3 roles, there's tons. Vayne Kennen Mordekaiser Etc.
Then there's tons more who can play two roles. That's no reason to nerf them. Sure, Graves is strong, but he's not unkillable
Definitely Bait1 votesTomorrow's patch
[Passive no longer knocks back Scuttle]
End of the Line (Q)
Second hit base damage lowered to 80/125/170/215/260 from 85/145/205/265/325
Detonation time after hitting terrain increased to .25 seconds.
They're nerfing his q burst on the return hit.
It's hard to say if that will be enough.