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Maybe I'm bad at Math...

GigglesO··23 votes·10,981 views

But I've been watching a video of an outplay of mine, and the numbers just don't seem to add up. (video posted below, screen shots posted as necessary) First off It was Jinx vs Mordekaiser Jinx had item 3033 item 3031 item 3006 item 3085 item 3094 item 3139 (redbuff) She had 383 damage and The keystone that gives more attack speed. Morde at time of video had 107 +10 (shield bash) armor. (117) and 133 MR

Where the fuck are these numbers coming from for her auto attacks? https://imgur.com/JtSAmo7 So her first hit (energized) should have done 140 Magic damage reduced to 60 (Which doesn't show up) + 842 (thats with 10% rockets) reduced to 450 physical damage + 84 true damage (iedge) + 57 (and then some for red buff)
Total that up and its 651 (mordes shield blocked most of it in the next frame)

https://imgur.com/YyMTCm7 Where is that second hit coming from, and why does it deal so little damage even though we just discussed the math for her hits above.

https://imgur.com/X9AlCQl Same math Minus the energized hit, how is it dealing 600 damage?

https://imgur.com/F5aQIQb This last hit was without rockets, but the math still isn't adding up here...

Video btw. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaLUupYkdFo

UMM guys? BTW I couldn't reproduce that high of numbers against the 100 armor test bot. 17 less armor in the test bot means I should have been hitting for bigger numbers...

The only way that I can get 862 is to take her base ad 383 multiply that by 2.5 (old iedge) 957.5 and then take off 10% getting us to 861.75.... But if that is the case iedge is doing its old 2.5 damage multiplier and then applying it as true damage.

Edit: For referance Same build and runes vs a test dummy that has 100 resists instead of 117. https://imgur.com/a/8sZQ7FV

30 Comments

Tr4shB4NSYST3M15 votes

Wow. You mightve just found one hell of a bug bro. (and it wasn't a bug w/ Mordekaiser LOL)

Great breakdown btw, u should work for rito tbh.

GigglesO12 votes

If their damage reduction/amplification code is glitched it could explain why it feels like ass to play right now.

Paroe4 votes

{quoted}

If their damage reduction/amplification code is glitched it could explain why it feels like ass to play right now.

No, marksmen feel bad to play because they have a 4 item core. Theyre far to strong with a 2 item core, so decreasing it to a 3 item core with a storm razor rework (40AD, 25% asp, 20% crit chance, 20% MS for 0.5 seconds on crit) would dramatically improve their gamefeel.

As for this thread, i dont think shields benefit from your resistances or perhaps mordes shield in particular doesnt benefit from resistances right now. When you add that tidbit to the equation, suddenly the numbers make a lot more sense.

Irelia Bot1 votes

{quoted}

No, marksmen feel bad to play because they have a 4 item core. Theyre far to strong with a 2 item core, so decreasing it to a 3 item core with a storm razor rework (40AD, 25% asp, 20% crit chance, 20% MS for 0.5 seconds on crit) would dramatically improve their gamefeel.

As for this thread, i dont think shields benefit from your resistances or perhaps mordes shield in particular doesnt benefit from resistances right now. When you add that tidbit to the equation, suddenly the numbers make a lot more sense.

Marksmen use to not really come online until their 4th item.

It is just that everyone else has had damage go up as well.

Paroe3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=I2Kr2Tay,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-19T06:25:01.227+0000)

Marksmen use to not really come online until their 4th item.

It is just that everyone else has had damage go up as well.

Er... Thats not really true. Before, marksmen came online with item 3087 item 3031, and with shiv+IE only being 5800g they actually got ahead VERY fast, and their general itemization was also cheaper than everyone elses.

After the marksmen itemization changes their gold prices were normalized to 2900 then buffed to 2800, but the IE change combined with a lack of AD+crit item forces them to a four item core of zeal+zeal+storm razor+IE, which is awful. Theyre stronger when they get online but they dont feel very good until that point. Its why i suggest storm razor be reworked into the crit MS option while keeping crit at a 3 item core; Beyond simply letting marksmen hit their stride it allows them room to build properly and have defense, penetration, or lifesteal as needed. When was the last time you saw a marksman build last whisper or BT outside of draven?

Irelia Bot2 votes

{quoted}

Er... Thats not really true. Before, marksmen came online with item 3087 item 3031, and with shiv+IE only being 5800g they actually got ahead VERY fast, and their general itemization was also cheaper than everyone elses.

After the marksmen itemization changes their gold prices were normalized to 2900 then buffed to 2800, but the IE change combined with a lack of AD+crit item forces them to a four item core of zeal+zeal+storm razor+IE, which is awful. Theyre stronger when they get online but they dont feel very good until that point. Its why i suggest storm razor be reworked into the crit MS option while keeping crit at a 3 item core; Beyond simply letting marksmen hit their stride it allows them room to build properly and have defense, penetration, or lifesteal as needed. When was the last time you saw a marksman build last whisper or BT outside of draven?

Were you even playing back before season 5?

Paroe2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=I2Kr2Tay,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-19T06:41:31.135+0000)

Were you even playing back before season 5?

Im sorry, did you mean the 'before before times' and not the before times where marksmen were absurd for two seasons because their extremely cheap and effective itemization completely outclassed everyone else at all stages of the game?

Because even if you are talking about the before before times marksmen still had a 3 item core of IE+zeal+zeal; there just wasnt anywhere near as much free damage as there is now or when marksmen were absurd.

Irelia Bot11 votes

I thought people were saying marksmen outside of Kai'sa, Lucian, Jhin and Draven were unplayable and didn't do damage.

Or are they just getting blown up so fast because if they don't instantly die they end up doing 862 damage crits?

Compliant about marksmen being marksmen aside...

Just looking at it in slow motion you had roughly 3200 health with a shield for about 400. Just a guestimate based on the video and what I see. And after that 862 crit you lost the shield but were still at what appeared to be full health.

This only happened when you have the 400ish shield so perhaps there is some kind of weird bug with auto attacks against large shields.

GigglesO3 votes

Just looking at it in slow motion you had roughly 3200 health with a shield for about 400. Just a guestimate based on the video and what I see. And after that 862 crit you lost the shield but were still at what appeared to be full health.

If you slow it down and pause just right after the number hits, right as the hp should have been subtracted I HTGB some of the hp back that I otherwise visually would have lost. At first I thought the same thing about the whole visual glitch vs actual attack.

Compliant about marksmen being marksmen aside...

Yea I'm in the crowd of people that think all damage should be lowered. ADC's, Tanks, Mages, assassins... I think damage is just god awful right now.

AR URF1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=I2Kr2Tay,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-12-19T02:58:53.785+0000)

I thought people were saying marksmen outside of Kai'sa, Lucian, Jhin and Draven were unplayable and didn't do damage.

Or are they just getting blown up so fast because if they don't instantly die they end up doing 862 damage crits?

Compliant about marksmen being marksmen aside...

Just looking at it in slow motion you had roughly 3200 health with a shield for about 400. Just a guestimate based on the video and what I see. And after that 862 crit you lost the shield but were still at what appeared to be full health.

This only happened when you have the 400ish shield so perhaps there is some kind of weird bug with auto attacks against large shields.

Dude it's full build. The game changes at that point.

juanmiscar2775 votes

Maybe she has that rune that gives her more damage on higher hp enemies? it's in the precision tree

GigglesO1 votes

Sorry forgot to link the screenshot on that one. She had Fleet Overshield Lifesteal Coup de gra Absolute focus Gathering the storm

ZackTheWaffleMan3 votes

the numbers don't lie, and they spell disaster for you at sacrifice

Backup4now2 votes

I'm pretty sure runaans gets the aoe effect from rockets, since that's how it worked for a long time. Did you include the runaans bolts splash in your calculations and accounting for the little numbers that show up?

GigglesO7 votes

After your comment. I did manage to reproduce this in the custom mode. https://imgur.com/a/fA7xDML

So that would explain the second hit (If you get the splashes ever so perfectly)

However where is that big fucker coming from? The 862? Where is the true damage that should be with the attack?

Shouldn't the third and fourth hits still have been larger?

Backup4now3 votes

Multiple damage instances in a single tick all show up in one number, which is why some characters get one big bongo number when they burst you instead of multiple small ones in a quick sequence

GigglesO4 votes

Multiple damage instances yes, but different damage types, no. It still doesn't explain the missing true damage.

Paroe1 votes

{quoted}

Multiple damage instances yes, but different damage types, no. It still doesn't explain the missing true damage.

If damage is to low it doesnt show up. Its why healing for less than ~24HP doesnt show up.

And the death recap is to poorly designed to show you anyway.

GigglesO4 votes

Except with Red buff and iedge the damage would be roughly 120... That would show up. Especially since the 34 did in the next screen shot.

Electro5223 votes

There could be an upper limit as well.

One crit did over 800 damage, whereas the other did just over 600 damage.

It's possible that any amount of damage adding up to anywhere between those 2 numbers gets mushed into one big number.

ChuShoe2 votes

Now the real question, bug, or working as intended?

Conspiracy theories aside, that's strange

StainlessTweedle2 votes

I'm just here drooling over that jinx ghost murdering the enemy team [slayer-pantheon-rainbows]

Cuoco Diavolo2 votes

idk what mord had built but the major mistake/love of every mord player is that mord placed his shield on a minion. She stood where the shield did damage on top of all of mord spells granting shield if he also had deaths dance/ gun blade it would look like he wan't taking any damage at all but it's more the shield is regening faster than jinx can damage it. It's that's simple.

also mord shield grants resistances

GigglesO1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cuoco Diavolo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=I2Kr2Tay,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-12-20T09:41:45.522+0000)

also mord shield grants resistances

I hope you are talking about shield bash?

Grymlor1 votes

Agree with Giggleso, I can't figure out where that damage is coming from....

Thefrostyviking1 votes

Jinx rockets have a bonus AD scaling and the AOE explosions can crit and multiple explosions can hit the same target.

Also, armor pen.

Z3Sleeper1 votes

All of that was calculated.

Hibeki1 votes

possibly the rocket splash damage from the runaan?

GigglesO1 votes

Im pretty sure that still doesn’t address where the true damage hits and everything else was at. Also that’s still too high even for the splash.

Selegun1 votes

Runaan's damage on each splash is reduced by the item. Last I knew true damage cannot be reduced. Try adding the true damage from those splashes as if it was full true damage. We learned this from Cho'gath using stoneplate and this should be the same.

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