I know riot is removing the mastery, but I think that the fact most junglers feel cornered into taking it says a lot about how junglers feel in terms of gold allotment and how effective the jungle items really are.
I like the new mastery but I hope riot is just considering all sides of the case when evaluating what needs to change with the Resolve tree.
Big Lincoln3 votesit's picked 'cuz it's the only mastery that gives you any actual interaction with the jungle; you get small amounts of HP back for your clears while you stack it up, which makes first clear much easier, and then you get big amounts of health back once it's filled (if you're a tank)
if other masteries did anything to affect your clears or your health when clearing i guarantee you jungle would have more diversity on its own
but riot's only solution to everything is to take shit away
Requiemsfire2 votesWell the reason they take it is because every jungle monster contributes to the HP strength of ages provides giving you an easy early-mid game bonus 300 health.
WoonStruck2 votesAlso because every other mastery is useless for junglers outside of one of the most worthless ones that they'd rather take the alternative over anyway.
Hell, they nerfed the 2% damage increase junglers got from Assassin, just because it helped them jungle.
Being forced into a jungle item fucks you if you don't benefit from an early cinderhulk. Especially now that Cinderhulk is effectively nerfed while it was already pretty subpar.
My Waifu Vanilla2 votesYou're saying you don't like throwing 350 gold into the trash at the start of every game on Ivern because you HAVE to buy a jungle item? Why they can't just put the EXP on Smite or something is beyond me.
Also, the big problem I have with the removal of SotA is that a lot of junglers that currently use it....don't benefit at all from half the other keystones. Shyvana actually won't be very good with any of the new keystones (Fervor is pretty garbage without the on-hit), most fighters/divers won't be able to do much with any of the keystones in the jungle either since champions like Jax don't have CC and have reeeeeeally bad AD ratios (Xin can also go here to an extent).
Erockandroll2 votesKeep in mind that this is paired with the Jungle changes. Also, Riot is probably addressing the fundamental problems before tackling balance. They are going to want to look at the numbers before making changes. (Remember that pre-season starts on the next patch, but is going to go though the new year.)
actually, I'm not sure how gold or slot effecientcy applies to the Jungle argument. The real problem with the mastery is, it was always the optimal choice for Junglers. (of coarse it was, only mastery that interacted with Jungle farm) As such, investing in that Keystone, (along with the defense tree) was basically the only way to go from a meta point. Ultimately limiting Jungle options, (which in turn will limit the viable champion list)
This could have been off set if we had a Jungle oriented Keystone in the other trees as well. But the simplest solution is to simply not to synergize Keystones with Jungling. So in turn, Junglers can chose a keystone for what ever other reason.
WoonStruck2 votesThe fundamental problem is that junglers are forced to get a specific item that doesn't provide any actual combat stats.
Yeah, they might be able to clear fine, but they're fucked in gold value early-mid game when it comes to ganks or teamfights.
Erockandroll2 votesThe fundamental problem is that junglers are forced to get a specific item that doesn't provide any actual combat stats.
Yeah, they might be able to clear fine, but they're fucked in gold value early-mid game when it comes to ganks or teamfights.
starting to get a little confused, as the conversation is jumping between Keystones and itemization.
The fundamental problem you speak of, is never going to have a real good solution. Partially since you can't get enough sustain from normal items, we can't buff the Jungle items, without them becoming abusive on laners, they even had to shift part of the exp onto the item to prevent laners form poaching camps.
Also, I disagree with your appraisal of those items. Their stats arn't bad, generally not for a 2650 gold cost. I would likely be more concerned with slot efficiency, but that's more of a late game problem. not to mention that early/mid game, pulling off picks and ganks is still going to be your main focus. And while teamfights would be slightly problematic, a good gank isn't even that stat reliant, as long as you have the mobility and tools to make the gank a success, and set it up properly.
WoonStruck2 votesThe 1200 early gold they had to sink into jungle-only stats is part of the reason SotA was such a must-have.
All of the jungle items outside of Warrior have absolutely terrible stat-efficiency. Bloodrazor and Cinderhulks have 75% efficiency, and that's not including the actual jungling component, which has 0% combat gold efficiency. Effectively, you're looking at lower than 50% gold efficiency if you're a tank. The stats are terrible. _Even with the scaling, it only ends up at ~77% gold efficiency if you pick up 2000 bonus health, which is a feat. _
If you're a tank in the jungle, Riot has completely gutted you. SotA is all that was keeping Cinderhulk from being one of the worst items in the entire game.
Leeerzeichen1 votesIf you don't like the jungle items don't build them. Nobody forces you to get cinderhulk.
Unstoppable Monk1 votesI wouldn't call it always optimal. Undying. Fervor, Windspeakers, and Thunderlords had their uses. Invasion + Gank JG / Kindred / Zac / Elise
Zero Skill Tank1 votesThey don't feel "cornered", they take it because if you can stack it quickly it's vastly superior to the rest of masteries on any champion.
WoonStruck2 votesMore like its the only decent option on the majority of champions that jungle.
Miraweave1 votesAll Junglers take Strength of Ages because of how disgustingly efficient it is when you're killing jungle creeps.
