Can't DPS; can't build attack speed
Can't shred tanks
Must reload every 4th shot (leading to awkward engages and pause moments)
Can't push tower
Gets outscaled by virtually any other ADC
Ultimate is an inferior and less reliable version of Miss Fortune's Ultimate
Absolutely no reason to pick over Vayne, Miss Fortune, Caitlyn, or Ashe
Arya Riven8 votesMeanwhile a top pick for LCS and diamond-challenger play two years running.
WitchQueen Annie1 votes[{quoted}](name=Arya Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HrLGHWY7,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-01-29T22:12:38.168+0000)
Meanwhile a top pick for LCS and diamond-challenger play two years running.
LCS "top picked" Ezreal too last round. He's still gutter.
Arya Riven5 votesJhin has been a solid pick in all tiers since release. He trades dps for executions, burst and utility.
WitchQueen Annie1 votes[{quoted}](name=Arya Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HrLGHWY7,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-29T22:16:34.186+0000)
Jhin has been a solid pick in all tiers since release. He trades dps for executions, burst and utility.
He's absolute gutter in Silver. Almost every single time he's picked, the team will lose if the game goes past 30 minutes due to the DPS loss.
When you start a team fight or pull off that great engage you'll be all excited and then Jhin Ults and you're like...
"OH (sigh), instead of Ashe or Vayne going in and killing the team, you've got his 4 long range shots.... hmm... guess we will be out damaged now"
MissingKayo5 votes"He's absolute gutter in Silver."
Good thing no one gives a fuck about Silver because that doesn't mean shit.
duckarp1 votesAs 60% of all players are in bronze/silver, this is a fascinating statement.
TequilaZombie1 votesThis only means that 60% of all players should just git gud. My Bronze ass included.
Truly Prideful1 votesJhin hasn't even been out for 365 days though.
Copy Mirror6 votes:T
I'm a Marksman main and I will tell you that Jhin is one of the strongest Marksmen because of his Utility.
WitchQueen Annie1 votes[{quoted}](name=Copy Mirror,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HrLGHWY7,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-01-29T22:17:35.901+0000)
:T
I'm a Marksman main and I will tell you that Jhin is one of the strongest Marksmen because of his Utility.
at the price of not being able to DPS the entire enemy team?
I forgot why we had ADCs on the team,I guess its not to tower push or DPS the enemy team/tanks. Its for the CC (nods).
Copy Mirror2 votesHis 4th shot deals Crit to towers he clears minions like there's no tomorrow and on top of that he can Shred tanks after getting Dominiks just like every other ADC.
Each one of the things you said are non existant.
Truly Prideful5 votesIt's almost like he has different strengths than many other ADCs. He's great for helping his team set up picks. He's very good at killing squishy targets. Also his ultimate isn't even comparable to MF's, they have two completely different functions.
WitchQueen Annie1 votes[{quoted}](name=Call Me Jhinpai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HrLGHWY7,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-01-29T22:23:28.542+0000)
It's almost like he has different strengths than many other ADCs. He's great for helping his team set up picks. He's very good at killing squishy targets. Also his ultimate isn't even comparable to MF's, they he two completely different functions.
Its not comparable, because MF's is way superior. By the time Jhin gets to his 4th shot, the key targets would have escaped, also, he can miss (and even when he hits, not that much damage).
Meanwhile, MF presses a fire and forget and nukes the whole team.
Set up picks? If you want a better balance between setting up picks and still being able to DPS, just pick Ashe. Ashe is way superior at every single stage of the game. She can set up picks too but unlike Jhin, she can actually DPS and push towers.
Truly Prideful1 votesSo the enemy QSS' Ashe's ultimate, your engage is gone. You can QSS the slow from the fist hit from Jhin, but he can apply another and has his W for use afterward.
How is MF's comparable in any way? MF's is a wombo combo ultimate, it is meant to damage several targets at once. Jhin's is a long range pick tool that has CC on it. Are they comparable because they have a cone shape? Well then man, Cho'gath's cone is complete garbage compared to both of them, the range is so short!
WitchQueen Annie1 votes[{quoted}](name=Call Me Jhinpai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HrLGHWY7,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2017-01-30T00:12:30.499+0000)
So the enemy QSS' Ashe's ultimate, your engage is gone. You can QSS the slow from the fist hit from Jhin, but he can apply another and has his W for use afterward.
How is MF's comparable in any way? MF's is a wombo combo ultimate, it is meant to damage several targets at once. Jhin's is a long range pick tool that has CC on it. Are they comparable because they have a cone shape? Well then man, Cho'gath's cone is complete garbage compared to both of them, the range is so short!
why would you even bother to QSS anything in Jhin's kit besides his W?
You've lost me.
Truly Prideful1 votesThe point is his ability to set a pick has 5 parts, QSS does not stop him from starting it up. QSS alone can get you out of being picked by Ashe's ultimate. This is why he is great for a team, his ultimate offers a lot of pick potential and forces the enemy team to block the shots if he manages to grab a priority target.
WitchQueen Annie1 votes[{quoted}](name=Call Me Jhinpai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HrLGHWY7,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-30T01:00:05.494+0000)
The point is his ability to set a pick has 5 parts, QSS does not stop him from starting it up. QSS alone can get you out of being picked by Ashe's ultimate. This is why he is great for a team, his ultimate offers a lot of pick potential and forces the enemy team to block the shots if he manages to grab a priority target.
His Ultimate can simply be shrugged off while something like an MF Ult cannot
your team can completely afford to team fight normally during the duration of his Ult with the knowledge that his shots will do no damage except for the 4th and that while he's Ulting his team doesn't have a Vayne/Ashe/Twitch actually dealing DPS.
Truly Prideful1 votesYou are still trying to compare a 3000 range pick tool to a 1400 range wombo combo ability, they don't even serve close to the same function. I'm not entirely sure why you can't understand that. Compare MF's ultimate to standing in a Vel'koz ultimate because that is honestly closer.
I'm not sure why you seem to think Jhin lacks damage at all, maybe you haven't ever played with a single person that can play him somehow. He's a good team oriented ADC and that is why he is picked.
Cocho5 votesWhat other adc has a 2500 range root and a 3000 range ultimate?
WitchQueen Annie1 votesWhat other adc has a 2500 range root and a 3000 range ultimate?
No other.
But then again, what other ADC can't DPS, can't push towers, needs to reload every time they fire 4 times, can't build Attack Speed, is immobile... AND can't kill tanks while also being skill shot reliant for meh damage?
Modi2 votesIf he sucks, why is he almost guaranteed to be picked in pro play?
LordGeovanni1 votesidk any other adc that crits towers do you.
WitchQueen Annie1 votesidk any other adc that crits towers do you.
who cares if he can crit towers?
Every other ADC pushes towers way harder and faster cause they don't need to reload and actually have AS.
LordGeovanni1 votesjhin does as much damage in one attack as other adcs do in multiple and then his crit and missing health on 4th crit takes it faster and more than makes up for haveing to reload so all in all he kills things faster than other adcs then has to sit out the fight for half a second but whats this you reloading but can still spam high damage low cooldown spells.
Incarceration5 votes
. He also goes a different rune page from other AD carries so he basically has 6 lethality so he basically has about 55% armor penetration because of lethality, masteries, and items.
Ahristocats1 votesjhin can't shred tanks lol, and ps: that build is outdated for patch 7.2
but that doesn't mean he's weak but he's just completly weak against tanks he needs his entire team to help him to make the tank low to execute the tank with the 4th shot
you don't even need to focus the tank, just press ulti and help your frontline to take their back line, if the tank tries to tank the ulti have a support like thresh to hook him out of line
WitchQueen Annie1 votes[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HrLGHWY7,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2017-01-30T08:47:38.385+0000)
jhin can't shred tanks lol, and ps: that build is outdated for patch 7.2
but that doesn't mean he's weak but he's just completly weak against tanks he needs his entire team to help him to make the tank low to execute the tank with the 4th shot
you don't even need to focus the tank, just press ulti and help your frontline to take their back line, if the tank tries to tank the ulti have a support like thresh to hook him out of line
seems like a hell of a lot of effort (with so many things that could go wrong) compared to a simple MF ultimate...
Ahristocats1 votesthat's because mf is busted right now, comparing jhin to a broken adc is a bad comparison
jhin trades tank-killing for squishy killing from high range+utility+execution it's already said above and in this meta tanks aren't dominating unlike before, the only tanks you have are maokai/poppy top lane not even in every games, and in the jungle kha lee and rengar dominates and you're able to kill them very easily
R182 votesAre you high?
FxyO2 votesbest adc atm sucks
Lùmen2 votesAre you stupid?
l Dárius l1 votesoutscaled? lol yeah, the auto squishy twice late game gets outscaled the level 16 full build ultimate that kills you if you land all 4 hits on a squishy is outscaled the only champ that can kill a tower in about 10 autos is definitely outscaled the adc with some of the highest range abilities and 2 executes is totally outscaled. your right, i should be playing teemo adc
WitchQueen Annie1 votes[{quoted}](name=noxus roolz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HrLGHWY7,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2017-01-30T00:32:05.359+0000)
outscaled? lol yeah, the auto squishy twice late game gets outscaled the level 16 full build ultimate that kills you if you land all 4 hits on a squishy is outscaled the only champ that can kill a tower in about 10 autos is definitely outscaled the adc with some of the highest range abilities and 2 executes is totally outscaled. your right, i should be playing teemo adc
Late game you don't need a guy who can 2 shot squishies (there's very little difference between 2 shooting a squishy and 3/4 shotting them at high attack speed which is what other ADCs do anyways). What you need is the ability to deal DPS, push towers, and shred tanks.
If Jhin absolutely excelled at killing squishies its fine but he's not even exclusive in that category. No one would say a late game Ashe or Vayne can't delete squishies. The difference is, they can also shred tanks. Jhin can't. The opportunity cost in picking Jhin is too big.
l Dárius l1 votesthe level 16 full build ultimate that kills you if you land all 4 hits on a squishy is outscaled the only champ that can kill a tower in about 10 autos is definitely outscaled the adc with some of the highest range abilities and 2 executes is totally outscaled.
A Doorknob1 votesI don't see any issues with Jhin. His AD ratio is the highest in game being able to hit 400-500 easy without red dragon. His 4th shot can 1/2 to 3/4 a tank class by late game so I don't get how he has no tank shred according to you. He builds crit allowing him to proc his passive as often as possible. Highest range adc in game. Can crit a turret with 4th shot. Strong lane bully early game. No early farming issues even under tower. No real mana issues early game. Sure he has his set weakness but that can be said for all adcs... The only issue I see he has is he is pure boring.
WitchQueen Annie1 votes[{quoted}](name=A Doorknob,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HrLGHWY7,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2017-01-30T01:27:51.975+0000)
I don't see any issues with Jhin. His AD ratio is the highest in game being able to hit 400-500 easy without red dragon. His 4th shot can 1/2 to 3/4 a tank class by late game so I don't get how he has no tank shred according to you. He builds crit allowing him to proc his passive as often as possible. Highest range adc in game. Can crit a turret with 4th shot. Strong lane bully early game. No early farming issues even under tower. No real mana issues early game. Sure he has his set weakness but that can be said for all adcs... The only issue I see he has is he is pure boring.
he has no tank shred in the sense that he has no DPS since he can't build attack speed.
So late game if a Vayne enters the fight at the right time she can destroy the entire team in seconds (tanks included). But Jhin can't. He can only situationally execute a few people here and there which is not what you want.
The number of scenarios where an Ashe or a Vayne can enter and delete 3 people (tanks included) is much greater. Essentially playing Jhin is marginally better than putting an AD assassin in bot. He's not even a real marksman at this point aside from having a ranged auto.
A Doorknob1 votes[{quoted}](name=Vlad Maine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HrLGHWY7,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2017-01-30T01:52:35.169+0000)
he has no tank shred in the sense that he has no DPS since he can't build attack speed.
So late game if a Vayne enters the fight at the right time she can destroy the entire team in seconds (tanks included). But Jhin can't. He can only situationally execute a few people here and there which is not what you want.
The number of scenarios where an Ashe or a Vayne can enter and delete 3 people (tanks included) is much greater. Essentially playing Jhin is marginally better than putting an AD assassin in bot. He's not even a real marksman at this point aside from having a ranged auto.
So pick Vayne. Her entire purpose is to shred a tank. That is legitimately her purpose, so it's quite an unfair comparison.
As for other adcs, he trades AS for dmg. I don't see the issue. He's a spell caster with low AS but HIGH burst. He practically is an ASN. So is twitch. They both have different kits and function differently. Only difference is the Attack speed trade for power. It's 1 of the sacrifices you make when you pick Jhin. In return you gain High dmg, High crit (if you build this way) a ridiculously high burst 4th shot, huge range, low CDR and increased MS for every crit you land. If you don't like him why pick him? He's not even in that bad of a position for adcs in terms of win rate.
I Stealth I1 votesVayne?......... cough cough % health true damage, cough cough auto attack resets, cough cough invisibility
Completely broken
CrayMLC1 votesyou know what dps means, right? it's damage per second, not autos per second. if you deal more damage per auto attack you can auto attack slower and still deal the same damage per second as before. thats what jhin does lol lategame he'll do equivalent dps to most adcs (even with reloading) just because his auto attacks are as good as two from any other adc. but not only does he deal the same dps, he deals that dps in a burst, meaning he can kill anything that isn't full tank faster than an adc with equivalent dps he can also kite easier and better than most adcs because of his speed boost and his slower attack speed
WitchQueen Annie1 votesyou know what dps means, right? it's damage per second, not autos per second. if you deal more damage per auto attack you can auto attack slower and still deal the same damage per second as before. thats what jhin does lol lategame he'll do equivalent dps to most adcs (even with reloading) just because his auto attacks are as good as two from any other adc. but not only does he deal the same dps, he deals that dps in a burst, meaning he can kill anything that isn't full tank faster than an adc with equivalent dps he can also kite easier and better than most adcs because of his speed boost and his slower attack speed
there is no way in hell that if you had a Vayne/Ashe/Twitch/Caitlyn at full build firing non-stop at a target and a Jhin firing at the same target in an alternate game for the same duration (assuming same gold and same items numbers)... that Jhin would do the greater DPS.
I know perfectly well what DPS means.
CrayMLC2 votesdo the math dude. assuming jhin reaches 750 ad (entirely possible) and has 70% crit and ie, each auto averages around 1,200 damage before resists. his attack speed at level 18 is 0.94375, so if you multiply it out he has 1,141 while he has ammo left. or, in other words, he deals 4800 damage is 4.2 seconds. if you count his 25% missing health damage on his fourth hit as dealing 25% of what his past three autos did, then he just did 5700 damage in 4.2 seconds. that's 1,357 dps. the elephant in the room of course is that jhin has to reload which means instead of spitting out that 5,700 damage in 4.2 seconds, it's 4.2+2.5 seconds. that means if you count reloads he deals 846 dps, which is slightly lower than the adc standard. though only half below as he is above it without reloads, so you'd have to be facing multiple VERY tanky, exclusively armor building targets with tons of effective health to really feel the lowered dps from reloading. that 846 dps is still respectable though and is more than made up by the fact that anything that isn't full tank is definitely dead after taking 5,700 damage, (remember, while he has ammo he deals far above adc average in dps, he can just use time spent reloading to reposition after all those speed boosts he's gotten) plus all that utility he has at his disposal. jhin can even self peel and kite, and in teamfights can keep enemies from disengaging by ulting. plus for tanks, jhin can simply hold his fourth execute shot and wait for his team to get the tank down to about 20% health, at which point he can end them instantly. his effective dps by taking advantage of his team's damage with the 25% missing health execute will be greatly magnified past that of most adcs. tl;dr he has tradeoffs in his kit but he's in no way weak. build him properly and you'll do just as well as any other adc or better
once practice mode comes out try comparing jhin with the rest of the adcs, you'll find his dps is just fine
CrayMLC1 votesalso i'm pretty sure my math is wrong here, since i was giving the last shot a cooldown period after it where jhin doesn't reload
obviously it's 1, wait, 2, wait, 3, wait, 4, reload
if that's the case then it actually takes 3.15 seconds to deal that 5,700 damage (1810 dps), and if you include reloading he sits at a comfortable 1,009 dps, which is at least as good or better than your typical full build caitlyn
ratman1011 votesU wot m8! Jhin is op
Atreus Jones1 votesJhin trades tank shred, for extended fight executes, prioritizing squishies, and faster autos for harder hitting crits.
Early game he will bully hard, he works especially well with a Sona. Use his traps at chokes in the river to scare off the jungler, or at least let him know you knows he's coming. Use your guranteed, missing health, crit to poke. They'll soon learn not to get close to the wave after you remove a quarter of their hp bar with each crit.
Late game, as said multiple times on this post, Jhin's ult is meant to pick priority targets, 2 shotting squishies if built correctly. Just like any adc, Jhin excels doing damage from the back line, but he just has more range. His w also helps catch out enemies, and traps on choke points can also help. Jhin is an adc that controls where he wants his enemies to be.
All in all, Jhin can be strong, he can also be weak in the wrong hands. And if he falls behind all you can do is hope they can farm up and get items
