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Fiora nerfs + Bramble vest + Urgot

Håppy··3 votes·998 views

Well, alright. While I don't agree with the complaints about Fiora's mechanics and such, sure, nerf her a bit to keep people happy. However I don't feel like the removal of the movespeed on her ult is the right choice, as others are saying. It's a pretty bad feel, and I haven't even gotten in-game to try it yet. The movespeed in the circle after ulting someone is huge for what Fiora does and wants to do, which is get around you. As others have said, it forces you to burn summoner spells and even then you won't get much, and will encourage Iceborn+Frozen Mallet abuse on her to make her function, which'll hurt her build path, probably bring back Tank Fiora and the complaints will continue until she's shoved completely down the drain.

Which leads me to, Bramble Vest. A 900g item that gives grievous wounds to people who autoattack you and reflects damage. So, there's an indirect nerf to Fiora, because her Q counts as an AA and obviously so does her AA, which she needs to proc vitals. Instantly applying grievous wounds and cutting her healing, as well as damaging her to negate that heal. It removes her passive and her ult from actually working, coupled with the nerf to her ultimate it's going to shut her down so hard it'll be miserable to play her at all.

Then there's urgot.. Urgot looks neat. But you know what he does? Omni-directional combat. You know what Fiora does? Omni-directional combat.

This is a triple-threat that will kill her as a champion. It looks like I'm not playing till something about this is fixed. Downvote away, I know everybody's going wild over Fiora getting slaughtered like this.

16 Comments

Big Lincoln2 votes

i didn't even know she got MS just for pressing R, i thought they were making it so that she didn't get MS for proccing ult vitals

this doesn't sound so bad

Håppy1 votes

When she ulted you, she got her passive's movement speed as a "permanent" thing while inside the very visibly lit circle around you. It allowed her to dance around you and even overtake you when you ran, because her mobility otherwise is so trash. She has nothing but running after you, + a little 2-inch dash that comes up frequently so long as she's able to keep pace with you, and when you consider the mobility creep and MASSIVE dashes every champion has, she's not very good at keeping up with you unless she has that movespeed buff.

Not that it matters anyways, Urgot is on the way, he'll build bramble vest, Fiora will try to dance around him for the vitals and eat every single one of his knee-cannons and die.

PePsiLemoNN2 votes

Right now Fiora can just spin around you and activate all her vitals in 3 seconds. I'd say it would be a good nerf if there weren't the other indirect ones :p

Håppy2 votes

It's something she needs even without the indirect ones, though. Consider how many champions have an incredible dash? It's Fiora's ultimate, it's supposed to make you panic and it's supposed to give her a strong advantage. The only advantage it gives now is the vitals, which are no different than her passive, and with the nerf to her passive movespeed on top of that, it's very difficult to dance around your opponent.

There's always been a lot of counterplay to what Fiora can do, mostly based around what she can't do. This hurts the things she can do, and really damages her as a champion.

Asayake 5150glow2 votes

This is so fucking wrong in certain parts.

[{quoted}](name=Happy Lolis,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HkbLuVb2,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-07-11T19:12:39.783+0000)

Well, alright. While I don't agree with the complaints about Fiora's mechanics and such, sure, nerf her a bit to keep people happy. However I don't feel like the removal of the movespeed on her ult is the right choice, as others are saying. It's a pretty bad feel, and I haven't even gotten in-game to try it yet. The movespeed in the circle after ulting someone is huge for what Fiora does and wants to do, which is get around you. As others have said, it forces you to burn summoner spells and even then you won't get much, and will encourage Iceborn+Frozen Mallet abuse on her to make her function, which'll hurt her build path, probably bring back Tank Fiora and the complaints will continue until she's shoved completely down the drain.

First off: Tank Fiora was NEVER a thing. Bruiser Fiora with Titanic Hydra? Yes. Iceborn/Frozen Mallet/tank items before damage? Never.

Second: The removal of movespeed is not too important, because Fiora's stick is already really good as it is. The change will make kiting her easier, which is a step in the absolutely right direction, making it easier to shut down a fed Fiora by turtling and further weakening her teamfight (which can be a little strong when she's ahead).

Third: That's not gonna make tank Fiora a thing, because tank Fiora is more likely to want that constant movespeed. Tank Fiora will be spamming her ass off with Q's and E's, meaning lots of mana consumption, meaning having better stick without needing to use abilities will be more effective.

Fourth, tank Fiora never was and never will be a thing.

Which leads me to, Bramble Vest. A 900g item that gives grievous wounds to people who autoattack you and reflects damage. So, there's an indirect nerf to Fiora, because her Q counts as an AA and obviously so does her AA, which she needs to proc vitals. Instantly applying grievous wounds and cutting her healing, as well as damaging her to negate that heal. It removes her passive and her ult from actually working, coupled with the nerf to her ultimate it's going to shut her down so hard it'll be miserable to play her at all.

Rather, 80% of Fiora's damage comes from hitting you with autos or Q, up to 99% if 1) the fight lasts a while, which it should if the target is building a tank item and is thus tanky, or 2) the target has armor meaning Rav active does very little, which is also likely. In other words, Fiora will kill herself on you far too easily, especially without being able to sustain in combat.

Then there's urgot.. Urgot looks neat. But you know what he does? Omni-directional combat. You know what Fiora does? Omni-directional combat.

Um wat. More like: Urgot needs to keep his shotgun knees pointed at you in order to do big damage, and Fiora is one of the most in combat mobile champions in the game and should be able to stay away from the shotgun blasts. Combined with a fairly small model, this mobility will make her utter hell for Urgot to draw a bead on her and mow her down.

This is a triple-threat that will kill her as a champion. It looks like I'm not playing till something about this is fixed. Downvote away, I know everybody's going wild over Fiora getting slaughtered like this.

The first nerf is pretty decent and will hit her where she may be overperforming. Bramble Vest seems like it's definitely gonna cause a problem. The third thing is only a single champion, and while Urgot may be spammed in norms, it's not gonna affect her in competetive (ranked).

Håppy1 votes

You don't seem to know what you're talking about. Tank Fiora came around the same time Tank Ekko and Tank Akali were here. You wanna know what she built?

item 3071 item 3748 item 3047 item 3025 item 3742 item 3065 That build forced Riot to put less emphasis on her Vital base damage and more on the scaling for her AD. Saying she was never a thing pretty much tells me that you weren't playing when that shit was around. It was obnoxious. Fiora's stick is only as good as it is BECAUSE OF THE MOVESPEED. They nerfed the movespeed she gets for hitting a vital, and they removed the passive movespeed from being a constant inside her ult's circle. That hurts her ability to stay on you, which is not only what she's supposed to do, but is ALL THAT SHE CAN DO. She has no super long dash, she has no blink, she has a pissy little lunge. To get Fiora on your carry you either need to have your carry out of position, or Fiora to flash on them. Please don't come on here talking like you have any idea when the first thing in your post is just straight incorrect. Oh look, a Tank Fiora game played by yours truly. Huh. But she was never a thing, right?

99.9% of Fiora's damage comes from her autos, the only time she isn't autoing you being when she's riposting, and that is such a small percent of her damage in duels that it's actually straight up negligible, especially because she levels her Riposte last. So, what are you saying here? Why did you just put a whole paragraph repeating exactly what I said? You could have just put "I agree", because that's what you summarized with.

"Urgot needs to keep his shotgun knees pointed at you in order to do big damage". Okay, and he has.. 8 knees. Fiora has 4 vitals that she needs to dance around you to hit. Urgot locks on, presses W and he's attacking you rapidly, and.. look at that, you've just tanked all 8 shots to the fucking mouth. What the hell are you even saying. She's melee, Urgot is a top laner, Urgot is ranged, what the fuck do you mean "She'll be able to stay away from the shotgun blasts", that's like saying Fiora will be able to avoid Graves' attacks while hitting him. If you want to play Fiora in ranked, Urgot needs to be banned, because he's her hardest counter yet.

This is the dumbest thing I've ever read. I'd be more polite, but you came on here "xd this is so fucking wrong" and then spat nothing but garbage.

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Happy Lolis,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HkbLuVb2,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-07-11T22:21:43.738+0000)

You don't seem to know what you're talking about. Tank Fiora came around the same time Tank Ekko and Tank Akali were here. You wanna know what she built?

item 3071 item 3748 item 3047 item 3025 item 3742 item 3065 That build forced Riot to put less emphasis on her Vital base damage and more on the scaling for her AD. Saying she was never a thing pretty much tells me that you weren't playing when that shit was around. It was obnoxious. Fiora's stick is only as good as it is BECAUSE OF THE MOVESPEED. They nerfed the movespeed she gets for hitting a vital, and they removed the passive movespeed from being a constant inside her ult's circle. That hurts her ability to stay on you, which is not only what she's supposed to do, but is ALL THAT SHE CAN DO. She has no super long dash, she has no blink, she has a pissy little lunge. To get Fiora on your carry you either need to have your carry out of position, or Fiora to flash on them. Please don't come on here talking like you have any idea when the first thing in your post is just straight incorrect.

That was never a thing, PLEASE. Where are you getting your sources? Mine are from Fioramains subreddit, so pretty reliable... I was unaware of them nerfing Vital movespeed, you only talked about the loss of ult movespeed. Fiora is not supposed to be fighting a carry unless the carry is out of position or unless she's cleaning up. Against her correct targets, who are top lane bruisers, tanks, juggernauts, and skirmishers, she usually has little trouble sticking too with her Q which gets on a very low cooldown come late game, her movespeed buff, and E slow. Ulting still gives Vital movespeed, so that too, but often you can stick onto someone pretty well without needing to ult in laning. Fiora would probably take Ghost if she needed that stick, but she doesn't. Hell, if you wanna make up for the movespeed lost, just take Ghost. In other words, sure it hurts her stick, but her stick is already fucking amazing. It honestly won't do a thing unless it's one of the few match ups where she barely manages to stick to you.

Again, I was unaware they nerfed the Vital movespeed, and both of those together may cause issues with their stick, but initially I did not know that, and the ult movespeed alone is not necessary for sticking.

99.9% of Fiora's damage comes from her autos, the only time she isn't autoing you being when she's riposting, and that is such a small percent of her damage in duels that it's actually straight up negligible, especially because she levels her Riposte last. So, what are you saying here? Why did you just put a whole paragraph repeating exactly what I said? You could have just put "I agree", because that's what you summarized with.

99% is autos is what you usually think, until you realize that against squishies, Rav active is 20% of your damage, and Rav active is not an auto. Just a minor disagreement.

"Urgot needs to keep his shotgun knees pointed at you in order to do big damage". Okay, and he has.. 8 knees. Fiora has 4 vitals that she needs to dance around you to hit. Urgot locks on, presses W and he's attacking you rapidly, and.. look at that, you've just tanked all 8 shots to the fucking mouth. What the hell are you even saying. She's melee, Urgot is a top laner, Urgot is ranged, what the fuck do you mean "She'll be able to stay away from the shotgun blasts", that's like saying Fiora will be able to avoid Graves' attacks while hitting him. If you want to play Fiora in ranked, Urgot needs to be banned, because he's her hardest counter yet.

The number of Fiora vitals being small is a GOOD thing, because that means each Vital is an entire fourth of a champion wide. Shotgun knees seem fairly thin (if they weren't, Riot probably wouldn't put as much emphasis on aiming them), and should be jukable, especially by a very mobile champion with a small model.

This is the dumbest thing I've ever read. I'd be more polite, but you came on here "xd this is so fucking wrong" and then spat nothing but garbage.

You mentioned tank Fiora.

Tank Fiora was never a thing, ever. The closest thing was Titanic about a year and a half ago, when it gave 50 AD. That was bruiser Fiora. Hell, the build you gave me is bruiser Fiora. Two bruiser items, two offensive tank items, and one full tank item. Tank Fiora would be item 3025 item 3068 item 3065 item 3143 item 3047 (old)item 3026 . Because that's what tank Ekko and tank Akali were. Fiora never rushed Sunfire Cape. Ekko did. Ekko and Akali did not build bruiser items as their first two items (I'm not sure on Akali, but her first item was Titanic, right?). Hell Ekko rarely even built a bruiser item out of sometimes Triforce. They both went tank after that.

Håppy1 votes

Oh look, a Tank Fiora game played by yours truly. Huh. But she was never a thing, right? Want more? I've got more.

You mentioned kiting Fiora. Bruisers and juggernauts don't kite, so I talked about ADCs. If you didn't know they nerfed her vital movespeed, then you didn't even read the patch notes, and you shouldn't be on here arguing.

You got your information from fiora mains? That's cool. I'm a fiora main, get your information from me, I know what I'm god damn talking about. You wouldn't go up against Malicious Metal trying to tell him "Well these other mord mains say this..", Fiora is the reason I got to plat last season and she's the reason I've been climbing so well this season. I've been playing her for years, I know my shit. Alright? Don't brush what I'm saying to the side because of this.

I just got off a PBE game with Urgot, I know how Fiora moves around champions to strike the vitals. Urgot's W makes him attack 3 times a second, that's max attack speed + .50, he's going to nail every shotgun knee as she moves around him because she has to move around him. His knees don't move. She moves. So as she's spinning, she's tanking damage. Urgot counters her. Couple that with a brambles vest, and she kills herself on him.

Take Fiora's classic matchup, Riven, a good skill matchup. Suddenly, Fiora cannot kill Riven now, because Fiora's movespeed in the ult circle is gone and she can't keep up with Riven. Take Gnar, he bounces away and Fiora will have to burn flash to catch him, and frozen mallet will put her down anyways. Take anybody with a good bit of mobility, and now where Fiora would have been able to keep the pace, she just completely falls behind.

Saying "take ghost" is not a good counterargument. "Oh, so something has really destroyed a champion? Okay, take this summoner spell, instead. We recognize that this champion functions with different spells and the lack of mobility requires flash, but here, take ghost instead! Sorry that you either have to sacrifice your ability to get back in to lane quickly or your ability to escape things in order to make your champion function properly. :\"

Asayake 5150glow2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Happy Lolis,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HkbLuVb2,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-11T22:52:55.484+0000)

Oh look, a Tank Fiora game played by yours truly. Huh. But she was never a thing, right? Want more? I've got more.

  1. THAT'S STILL BRUISER. Titanic + Cleaver is not a tank build, friend. Combine it with Sheen item (even Iceborn) and it's even less of a tank build.
  2. That Riven must've been a terrible idiot to build Merc Treads into Fiora. Also, whats with the Randuins and DMP?
  3. A few games by you mean nothing. I could show you a recent Shen game where I did amazing, with {{item:1419} item 3153 item 3022 item 3053 item 3047 item 3074 and say that current Shen meta is onhit duelist bruiser. It's not. I have more of those games, too.

You mentioned kiting Fiora. Bruisers and juggernauts don't kite, so I talked about ADCs. If you didn't know they nerfed her vital movespeed, then you didn't even read the patch notes, and you shouldn't be on here arguing.

Well, I was actually talking about two different things when I said kiting. One is kiting, like with mages and ADC's. The second is dissengage, which is far more important (kiting Fiora correctly as an ADC would mean she never got to proc a Vital, and YES nerfing ult hurts that, but YES nerfing ult SHOULD hurt that because Fiora should not be able to kill an ADC unless they're out of position or she flashes, as you said.

And how does my not reading the patch notes invalidate my arguments? Someone can be an idiot but still say something right - if someone who couldn't do math guessed 1+1 equaled 2, would you say they're wrong because they can't do math? Anyway, I still don't see how that matters. Why does it matter that I got my information from boards instead of patch notes? Nerfed Vital movespeed and removed ult movespeed. Is it wrong?

You got your information from fiora mains? That's cool. I'm a fiora main, get your information from me, I know what I'm god damn talking about. You wouldn't go up against Malicious Metal trying to tell him "Well these other mord mains say this..", Fiora is the reason I got to plat last season and she's the reason I've been climbing so well this season. I've been playing her for years, I know my shit. Alright? Don't brush what I'm saying to the side because of this.

There are dudes in Diamond+ my friend... go on the subreddit, ask the other Fiora mains, if you don't believe me.

I just got off a PBE game with Urgot, I know how Fiora moves around champions to strike the vitals. Urgot's W makes him attack 3 times a second, that's max attack speed + .50, he's going to nail every shotgun knee as she moves around him because she has to move around him. His knees don't move. She moves. So as she's spinning, she's tanking damage. Urgot counters her. Couple that with a brambles vest, and she kills herself on him.

If Urgot counters her it's because he's a juggernaut without heavily telegraphed skillshots (think Darius, Illaoi) and he outstatchecks her. Sure you move around him if you want, but have you tried not moving around him? Fiora doesn't need Vitals for good damage, and Urgot's DPS without W seems shit. Maybe it's not about trying to outdps him, it's about avoiding his DPS while still dishing out decent DPS of your own?

Take Fiora's classic matchup, Riven, a good skill matchup. Suddenly, Fiora cannot kill Riven now, because Fiora's movespeed in the ult circle is gone and she can't keep up with Riven. Take Gnar, he bounces away and Fiora will have to burn flash to catch him, and frozen mallet will put her down anyways. Take anybody with a good bit of mobility, and now where Fiora would have been able to keep the pace, she just completely falls behind.

What Fiora match up with Riven was never about the ult movespeed. I never knew ult movespeed was a thing until it was brought up that it was gonna be removed. Riven match up is, and still will be, about Vital maneuvering, and Riposting CC or ult. Gnar bounces away but it's already a commonly agreed upon fact that you need to bait out his E before all in'ing. And I got that from people who main Riven, who has better chase once a target has left their immediate vicinity than Fiora. You're not supposed to catch Gnar after he E's out... it's his escape... Fiora never would've been able to keep up with Gnar. The change won't do anything.

Saying "take ghost" is not a good counterargument. "Oh, so something has really destroyed a champion? Okay, take this summoner spell, instead. We recognize that this champion functions with different spells and the lack of mobility requires flash, but here, take ghost instead! Sorry that you either have to sacrifice your ability to get back in to lane quickly or your ability to escape things in order to make your champion function properly. :\"

Ah, but Fiora hardly requires flash. And she won't require ghost either. If you have a problem, take it. But you shouldn't.

Håppy1 votes

So you're telling me that items that tanks build.. like iceborn, which goes on malphite, and Titanic, which goes on any tank that struggles with waveclear (Sunfire also works, but that's not waveclear, that's just slow pushing), and cleaver, which goes on any physical damage tank like Poppy. Those aren't tank items? You're telling me that a Fiora with 3k+ hp and over 250 armor isn't a tank? Alright, sure. I'll also be sure to tell Yi that he isn't an assassin because his damage isn't raw bursts with huge numbers, but rapid applications of lower damage that stacks up. A tank build doesn't stop being a tank build because you add an item that gives AD, else a Marksman stops being an ADC because they built sterak's gage.

"A few games", yes, a few games on my part. I'm not the only one who built it. Tank Fiora was a thing, you denying it is flat out stupid. Akali built tank but still had a gunblade in her build. Guess what, she was still a tank.

Not reading patch notes invalidates your argument about changes to a champion because you don't know what changes are being made to that champion, yet you're coming on and arguing about it. B.o.B. debated Neil deGrasse Tyson over the earth being flat or not, you have someone who has no actual idea on the topic they're debating vs someone who's actually educated on it. That's what's up, dude. No, the nerf + removal isn't wrong, but you only know it now after I told you, which means you were arguing with me about something you didn't know.

Okay, there are dudes in Diamond+. Diamond+ doesn't mean you can't be wrong.

If Urgot counters her it's because his bloody passive shoots her in the face with %hp damage faster than she can hit him with hers. It's a d i r e c t c o u n t e r. And because he's a juggernaut, he's going to wind up building Thornmail if he's against Fiora, and that'll be what disables her. Sure, Urgot isn't heavily mobile, so he won't be able to escape the ult vitals from being hit. Neat thing here, right? He doesn't have to. His passive + W, coupled with Thornmail, is going to destroy Fiora. But I bet you that if he was faster, he'd be able to just outright outrun her.

Yes, Fiora matches v Riven did require movespeed. Tell me, what can Riven do if she's losing the fight? Q E Q Q Q Q Q E Q Q Q Q E Q Q Q E Q QE QE EQ QE away, over walls and shit because her abilities are on a low cooldown and she's highly mobile. How would Fiora catch her? Ulting her and sprinting after Riven by using her Q to poke her and keep in the circle to give herself movespeed.

Fiora hardly requires flash? That's where I'm going to stop debating with you. I'll put my argument against that with this, FIORA HAS A SINGLE MOBILITY SPELL THAT CAN BARELY GO OVER WALLS AND IS ON A LONG COOLDOWN IF SHE USES IT TO FLEE, BECAUSE SHE RARELY HAS THINGS TO HIT WITH IT. FLASH IS ESSENTIAL, ESPECIALLY IN A GAME THAT'S PLAGUED WITH HIGH MOBILITY ON EVERY OTHER CHAMP. THAT'S WHY FLASH IS USED ON ALMOST EVERY SINGLE CHAMPION.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

Sun Wu Ryuumoku2 votes

While I don't agree with the complaints about Fiora's mechanics and such, sure, nerf her a bit to keep people happy.

saying this... as if she didn't deserve this lmao

Håppy1 votes

I don't think she did deserve it. She was in a good place. The indirect nerfs already did what people were asking for, the direct nerf is overkill combined. It's like when they nerfed Sejuani because of the items she built, then nerfed the items she built as well. She became completely worthless. This is another such case, only instead of nerfing Fiora's items, they buff her opponents' to make her irrelevant.

What I saw on the forums in regards to Fiora complaints, it was about her 1v1. Well, that's what she's supposed to excel at, is duelling. She lived up to the expectations of a master duellist, and when she got ahead or one of her opponents was really low, she could 1v2 easily, but that's to be expected of any champion. You don't complain when a Darius wrecks because that's what he's supposed to do. Why do people complain when Fiora does what she's supposed to do?

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

She wasn't in good place. She was Op. Haven't u looked at :

  • LCK
  • LCS
  • ban rate
  • win rate

?

Håppy1 votes

No, I don't watch the pro series, I feel like it affects my champion picks too much. Could you tell me when in the LCS she excelled? Was it during laning phase, 1v1? Because that's what she's supposed to do. And if she got way ahead, then yeah, she could hypercarry the game - As most champions can. Ever had a fed Darius on the enemy team? He runs through you like you aren't even there.

Ban rate skyrocketed after she became the FOTM/COTM (Face of the Month/Complaint of the Month). She's been fine for over a year and then complaints suddenly picked up because, I guess, the LCS picked her up and LCS always influences pick rates.

Win rate is high because people haven't learned how to play against her. I've lost my fair share of Fiora games because people knew to put pressure on me and keep me down, but I've also won my fair share because the opponent will come in for an early fight and let me just waltz around them and strike their vitals down. I've had times where people outran me even with the ult's movespeed. The fact it's been removed? Well, I guess I'm a female Darius now, once you're past 400-500 range I'll just stare at you wistfully, wishing you'd come closer.

420 grams1 votes

I feel like she's only getting nerfed because people complain that they get out played and die in a 1 v 1. They don't think about how that's her niche and the things given up to have that niche, they just see they died despite pressing all their buttons.

Håppy1 votes

Yeah. It sucks. I've been playing her since season 4, on my first account when I was only level 24. I've always found a way to make her work even when she's in the ground, but this triple-threat hitting her is so disgusting that I already don't want to play her. Tabis and bramble vest, yaaaaay.

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