I might be missing something or maybe it's just too early and some of the changes haven't been revealed yet, because none of these pictures show any difference in his kit. If this is truly the core gameplay change Riot has done to him, considering it took ages for them to make these changes, then I wonder what they've been spending their time on. Certainly not on the rework that's for sure.
IxtaliKing7 votesSo far I'm not convinced that E change will be as satisfying as when it had the knock up... still gonna look dumb charging into champs weightlessly with nothing happening. We'll see, but I'm not convinced.
Kaìju1 votesIf I am thinking this as it will be, be won't actually get that big a buff off the E soldier refund either since as it stands he can only have 3 max, so if you have two down, wait for a third, use it and go in, you don't increase hour damage for going in, you just reset the the soldier timer.
IxtaliKing1 votesI kinda feel like if they are going to go this reduced range battlemagey route, they should have committed to it fully. He's basically the same as he was before but with less range and an AS steroid...
Kaìju1 votesYup. I knew it was a bad idea when they announced it. I wholly believe his kit won't work because if how much of his budget the shuffle takes up. It needs to be changed or removed, it's like Blitzs pull, it eats up too much power and he's gonna be overtuned still. Plus this makes him harder to play so an even bigger descrepincy between pro and pubs.
IxtaliKing1 votesI guess time will, but I'm definitely not impressed.
Lulu the Support1 votesYup. I have pretty poor mechanical skill, so I believe I can already say good bye to playing Azir at all. If it was extremely challenging for me to play him before, there's no way in hell I'm going to do well with him now. The skill ceiling skyrocketed above Mount Everest. And I also agree with the shuffle taking too much of his budget. My standing is that it should be removed, as it's the only tool that could make him playable but very difficult to pull off for a pleb like me
Tormentula4 votesYea this new Azir already looks garbage.
Its literally current Azir, but its harder to get his full attack speed bonus, his shield nobody ever sees got buffed (buffed or not, don't go in melee range to begin with), and his ranges are down which just feels so shitty.
I actually would've preferred if they removed an ability over reducing his ranges cause its so unsatisfying to play him now if you're not pretended to be lee sin with Shurima shuffle. Legitimately feels like they nerfed Azir.
Can't believe I stopped playing Azir anticipating a rek'sai scope update, only to find they did absolutely nothing meaningful for him and he'll continue to be a balance nightmare the moment the meta shifts again because literally nothing was changed but what was satisfying about playing him in the first place.
I actually don't want this to go through and Azir is my main mid laner. I'll give it some more testing before crying for the revert but on paper I'm already extremely disappointed.
Lulu the Support2 votesWould you have prefered the change I proposed: E removed and instead, Azir summons a sand general at the target location that commands the soldiers Azir cannot reach to attack the nearest target, slightly longer Q, W and distance from which soldiers are active, R still undashable and remains for as long as it used to before the old R nerf
Tormentula1 votesThat sounds significantly better.
It would even be thematically fittingly, Azir is the emperor and he summons a general to help guide soldiers that aren't near him.
Legacy Hydralpha4 votesThat's a very unimpressive change. How does this fix any of Azir's issues? Someone tell me.
EDIT: Thanks for the replies, changes make a good amount of sense now and I'm looking forward to them.
Divewing3 votesQuote of Erockandroll's comment further down:
"looking at this list of changes, I can understand why Riot may have had to do some of these changes.
If your going to pose Azir as DPS, it would make sense to remove the increased Q damage on Multi soldier hit. (Which had given him a fair about of burst in the past.) Also, focusing more damage on his primary target will allow him to have better dueling power, as his damage is more balanceable. (If his AoE damage is uniform as it was in the past, you would never be able to make it satisfying against single targets, without it becoming oppressive when used on the entire team.)
Other choices like the increased reliability of his E shield and shorter range, suggests that he's going more for a close range battle mage than a long range glass cannon. (I'm guessing closer to Ryze and Cass's range) I personally think this is the right direction, though many would probably disagree.
Over all, it seems to me that they are changing his kit enough to make it healthier, Which would allow him to be in a competitive state."
EROTIC RAID BOSS2 voteshe's lower range and does less poke damage esp late game, his shuffle is more telegraphed, and dashes can go through his R. overall he's less safe and easier to counter. on the other hand he'll completely melt you with his soldiers if he has 3+ out, which is a lot easier to do with the changes. his roaming will be a bit better, and he'll be strong at taking turrets again.
Mens Hair Club2 votesthey kept his big plays
good, now he looks like someone I might like
Kaìju2 votesYeah I asked the same thing on Reddit, he looks bad it the same and that means he still won't be balanced. Sure his range might be down some but that still only widens the gap between pro and pub
Illâoi Evê Siôn2 votesThey changed the range of his abilities. His soldiers deal reduced damage to non-primary targets. Probably have higher single-target damage in exchange. Q slow no longer increases with multiple soldier hits. He gains bonus Attack Speed when he has 3 soldiers (W, W, Q, E combo?) His E grants him a soldier if he hits someone and it has an Ability Power ratio. He gains a shield even if he doesn't hit anyone on his dash. A lot of numbers have been changed and adjusted to fit.
Erockandroll2 votesThey changed the range of his abilities. His soldiers deal reduced damage to non-primary targets. Probably have higher single-target damage in exchange. Q slow no longer increases with multiple soldier hits. He gains bonus Attack Speed when he has 3 soldiers (W, W, Q, E combo?) His E grants him a soldier if he hits someone and it has an Ability Power ratio. He gains a shield even if he doesn't hit anyone on his dash. A lot of numbers have been changed and adjusted to fit.
looking at this list of changes, I can understand why Riot may have had to do some of these changes.
If your going to pose Azir as DPS, it would make sense to remove the increased Q damage on Multi soldier hit. (Which had given him a fair about of burst in the past.) Also, focusing more damage on his primary target will allow him to have better dueling power, as his damage is more balanceable. (If his AoE damage is uniform as it was in the past, you would never be able to make it satisfying against single targets, without it becoming oppressive when used on the entire team.)
Other choices like the increased reliability of his E shield and shorter range, suggests that he's going more for a close range battle mage than a long range glass cannon. (I'm guessing closer to Ryze and Cass's range) I personally think this is the right direction, though many would probably disagree.
Over all, it seems to me that they are changing his kit enough to make it healthier, Which would allow him to be in a competitive state.
FlameHalbrdOkido1 voteslooking at this list of changes, I can understand why Riot may have had to do some of these changes.
If your going to pose Azir as DPS, it would make sense to remove the increased Q damage on Multi soldier hit. (Which had given him a fair about of burst in the past.) Also, focusing more damage on his primary target will allow him to have better dueling power, as his damage is more balanceable. (If his AoE damage is uniform as it was in the past, you would never be able to make it satisfying against single targets, without it becoming oppressive when used on the entire team.)
Other choices like the increased reliability of his E shield and shorter range, suggests that he's going more for a close range battle mage than a long range glass cannon. (I'm guessing closer to Ryze and Cass's range) I personally think this is the right direction, though many would probably disagree.
Over all, it seems to me that they are changing his kit enough to make it healthier, Which would allow him to be in a competitive state.
see this guy I can get with, he argues a good point. Ok if this is your stance that they want to deliver a DPS mage, then I have a few questions for you. 1.) Why haven't they stated this 2.) how does this serve his theme(s) 3.) what do you think made them choose DPS over Artillery (I think a lot saw him as a backliner) 3.) how will this help reduce the disparity between pros and pubs 4.) will it make him easier to balance 5.) does this current version make him more of an ult bot or no? 6.) why haven't they increased the soldier max
finally u should probably let other people know about ur analysis, especially on the page for the patch notes
Honestly i was very upset about the changes until i read ur analysis. Once it was explained it made much more sense.
SweedishGunner1 votesQ ratio nerfed from 70% to 30% lul.
SweedishGunner2 votesFunny thing is I think he's fine as he is now (after the ult buff we're getting in a few hours).
He's hard to learn, has plenty of potential, isn't clogging up pro play or soloQ. If the meta wasn't so snowbally he'd be even better.
If anything I would've given him some sort of mana refund like Diana, since his build basically has to forgo any mana items.
Fear the Kayn2 votesHonestly, it looks like the changes make him worse than he is now. Would it be so hard to give him some reliable CC? How about this:
"If two soldiers hit a enemy champion, they are knocked up for 1 second"
Eyyy Azir is now viable, and it didn't take any number changes!
warpenguin5551 votesIt's also important to remember that Azir was not the 1st in line. Cho'Gath, Rek'Sai and others were all done before he was even started. They actually only started him around 2 months ago I believe
kargish3 votes2 months to conclude that E should get an AP scaling and a few other tweeks. Idk about you but if I was an Azir player I'd be pissed as hell. Especially after Rito hyped it all up .
Lauchmelder7 votesI was pissed as hell about them taking this route to begin with. They're balancing Azir around a gimmick (Shurima Shuffle), not his intended gameplay pattern.
FlameHalbrdOkido2 votes[{quoted}](name=Shuriman God,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HkGlTQ46,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-12T21:25:01.580+0000)
I was pissed as hell about them taking this route to begin with. They're balancing Azir around a gimmick (Shurima Shuffle), not his intended gameplay pattern.
I have to agree with a lot of people here in terms of their disappointment with this update. A lot of the reasons for my disappointment have already been stated by people above. But u, "Shuriman God" stated it pretty much perfectly in its essence. They made the mistake of balancing around the LCS big plays shuffle. Because it may cause Azir to become the dreaded "Ult Bot" that they have reworked other champs for being and worse its only going to WIDEN the gap between GREAT Azir players and regulars. Azir could become defined by the shuffle I thought part the point of the Azir rework was to make him easier to balance, and part of that was reducing the need to have "god-like" reflexes or skills. But if they are encouraging the Shuffle then they are doing the opposite!
Additionally to your point ITS NOT HIS INTENDED GAME PATTERN. It is not Emperor like to go charging in!
There's NO point in him having a shield whatsoever! His soldiers should be his shield (however u want to define that; literally as in his R or indirectly as his W with them being a threat zone) Theres no point in him having to dash into a fight as a Emperor that's inconcievable. And thats why its equally as un-thematic for them to reduce his ranges, because an Emperor wants to be FAR from a fight.
I don't really care about them nerfing the AoE dmg, there are bigger issues, but irony that Kowe The Ewok stated is weird.
They need to give some sort of bonus for multi hitting a target with Q, give the bonus dmg or the bonus slow, back or give it armor shred or SOMETHING
I tend to lean towards the back laner w/o shuffle because it fits his Emperor theme better. But There may be ways to find a middle ground. 1st why should he gain a shield for colliding with an enemy champ? Why would a mage want to come into melee range especially an Emperor who doesn't get their hands dirty? it should be used more as an escape. If we want to preserve the current play style without making the powerful shuffle too easily accessible, Azir players should have 2 think more carefully about using it, possibly only to SK's.
Another idea is 2 put a risk on E: E Leaves a fading after image for 3 sec that can be damaged. Dmg dealt to After image is proportional to 50% HP-xsec active: this idea is supposed to evoke the image of shifting sand, cause we kno sand doesn't shift as fast as Azir dashes.
Other ways u can reduce E's power is putting a range cap on it
Finally change it to turn the soldier dashed to into the shield.
The idea is to put risks on the dash to make the shuffle less potent.
Lulu the Support1 votesThe way I would solve the issue with Azir is I would remove his E entirely. This way the HUGE budget taken by the shuffle would be taken away. It would also give Azir a weakness, the lack of mobility. I would revert R to how it used to be (undashable and lasts pretty long) and keep the new width. I would slightly increase the range oh his Q, W and the range from which the soldiers are active at. As for his E, it could simply be an activable attack speed steroid, a small quicksand area that briefly stuns/slows enemies OR something more drastic but also interesting: Azir summons a sand general that commands the soldiers Azir cannot reach to attack the closest target.
FlameHalbrdOkido2 votes[{quoted}](name=Moonlord Shpitzy,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HkGlTQ46,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-13T16:50:18.032+0000)
The way I would solve the issue with Azir is I would remove his E entirely. This way the HUGE budget taken by the shuffle would be taken away. It would also give Azir a weakness, the lack of mobility. I would revert R to how it used to be (undashable and lasts pretty long) and keep the new width. I would slightly increase the range oh his Q, W and the range from which the soldiers are active at. As for his E, it could simply be an activable attack speed steroid, a small quicksand area that briefly stuns/slows enemies OR something more drastic but also interesting: Azir summons a sand general that commands the soldiers Azir cannot reach to attack the closest target.
What about a Sand General that increases that AS of soldiers in his AoE, but is targetiable
Or perhaps E causes one sand Soldier to collapse into quick sand in its Range
Or perhaps the Sand General can also be recast to turn into quicksand/ it turns into quicksand once destroyed/time runs out
Lulu the Support1 votesI know, right? If they like this obnoxious gimmick, they should just make a new champion with it, not take away from the intended gameplay of a champion we know and love.
Inting Pillow1 votesI'm an Azir player and I'm pissed as hell.
Kowe The Ewok1 votesIs there anything better than before? Extremely long CD on Q. No bonus for multi hits. W can't hit towers anymore and gets an awkward bonus once you have 4,5s of free time to place 3 soldiers without your opponent bashing your face in - then you get a small bonus... Hit multiple targets because of good positioning? Better nerf the damage against other targets. No DPS mage must ever dare to be remotely as useful as an ADC with hurricane.... (Which also procs on hits... while Azir is stuck with an awkward Nashor's whose passive he can't use). E doesn't knockup anymore.....
Meh, compared to the original Azir the nerfed Azir was bad, but this one might actually be worse - did the announced range nerfs also go through? That'ld be a complete death sentence.
EROTIC RAID BOSS1 votesthe q cd is longer at level 2 but shorter at max rank. it also has higher base damage lower AP ratios.
the quick and dirty version is they gave him back a lot of dps, esp when he can land an e go and go aggressive with a bunch of soldiers, at the expense of safety and poke.
sobi9991 votes[deleted]
GrReaper961 votesYou forgot the cast range decrease in Q and increase in W
PrinceOfStorms1 votesBut even if it does not, sadly this buff came with a cost as now you'll do 75% of damage to other enemies caught in the stab. Clearly riot is making azirs early game better at the cost of sacrificing his late game power and he'll be able to pick out and kill his targets faster but doing reduced damage to all other enemies. A humongous late game nerf i must say. I can't say if this change balances the previous above mentioned buff to his W or actually makes it into an overall nerf.
It scales up with points in Azir's W. At max rank, the stab does full damage to all enemies caught in it.
Ahris1 votesAzir doesn't rlly use mana compared to other laners due to his soldiers serving as his wave clear(w). They alone can wave clear efficiently.
EROTIC RAID BOSS1 voteshis poke range is lower and his ability to fight from a distance in general is not as good. his insec move is more telegraphed too. but if he has 3 soldiers out he'll melt you. that's the basic gist of it.
Rockem Sockm1 votesThey said they would nerf his range or mobility and they destroyed both.
Less range, less mobile, and they trashed his ult.
Doozku1 votesThe problem with a hyper-range Azir is that there isn't much counterplay to him and he'd still be way better than any other artillery mages you compare him to because not only does he have the insane range he also has insane consistent dps. One thing about every artillery mage is that they are almost all burst reliant and are also completely skillshot reliant. Xerath, Ziggs, Vel'koz, they all have completely skillshot based kits. Azir's soldiers are basically a big zone that if you enter Azir is just gonna damage the shit out of you. His only real "skillshot" is his Q which barely qualifies as such. This new direction that they are taking is much better game-health-wise even if it sacrifices some of what made Azir great. He now actually has to take risks to get his dps off but if you can get it, it's way higher than before.
That said, I don't agree with everything that this rework has. Mainly how he needs to slam into enemies with his E to get the extra soldier. If you think about, no other battle mage has to get right into melee ranges other than ones with super powerful defensive tools like Vlad or Karthus. Azir technically has his ultimate but it is on a huge cd and I don't think that he should become an ult-bot. I'd rather he get his bonus soldier or whatever by other means, like maybe each soldier auto decreases the cd on the soldier recharge and once it hits zero that effect goes on cooldown. That playstyle would support extended trades and battles like what Azir is supposed to be good at.
FlameHalbrdOkido1 votesThe problem with a hyper-range Azir is that there isn't much counterplay to him and he'd still be way better than any other artillery mages you compare him to because not only does he have the insane range he also has insane consistent dps. One thing about every artillery mage is that they are almost all burst reliant and are also completely skillshot reliant. Xerath, Ziggs, Vel'koz, they all have completely skillshot based kits. Azir's soldiers are basically a big zone that if you enter Azir is just gonna damage the shit out of you. His only real "skillshot" is his Q which barely qualifies as such. This new direction that they are taking is much better game-health-wise even if it sacrifices some of what made Azir great. He now actually has to take risks to get his dps off but if you can get it, it's way higher than before.
That said, I don't agree with everything that this rework has. Mainly how he needs to slam into enemies with his E to get the extra soldier. If you think about, no other battle mage has to get right into melee ranges other than ones with super powerful defensive tools like Vlad or Karthus. Azir technically has his ultimate but it is on a huge cd and I don't think that he should become an ult-bot. I'd rather he get his bonus soldier or whatever by other means, like maybe each soldier auto decreases the cd on the soldier recharge and once it hits zero that effect goes on cooldown. That playstyle would support extended trades and battles like what Azir is supposed to be good at.
What if E caused him to instead switch locations with a soldier and gain a new one v at his next location?
SirKeltic1 votesI think they are AWESOME. You can go good AP items and get the passive attack speed on the w. The new passie buffs are very good on him. Ofc he got few "nerfs" but it didnt hurt him so much