Personal tierlist of upcoming VGUs

Snowbrand··2 votes·2,070 views

WARNING: long post

_EDIT: Made another section for champions that doesn't really need a ezreal type of update, but still needs some changes or help and changed some champions that after considerations wasn't really in any need of an update. _

Also, if you downvote tell me what is wrong and not just downvote it pls.

So with the new roadmap mordekaiser got confirmed for a new rework and Kayle and morgana is soon here. Other then that, we don't know anything of what is next on the VGU list, so I wanted to give my own ranking of champions for the list. I think what makes a champion high priority is having an outdated model/visuals and one-dimensional/lacking gameplay. Then there is other reason I guess like how well does this champion fullfill their thematics and stuff like that. So here is my personal list of what I want and think should be reworked:

  1. Pantheon: I think he probably should be next after morde. In some ways he is a pretty okay champion. He have some stuff that other champions don't have (passive and ut at least). Still, a lot needs to change. His ult is pretty good and is maybe the ability he should keep but it might have to change a bit to not be as similar to Galios ult. His passiv is pretty unique so he might keep that somehow. But the rest should change. His Q should become a skillshot and the rest of his abilities should scale better into the game. He also need the visual update pretty badly. He could become a much cooler champion overall.

  2. Fiddlesticks: His visuals are pretty bad and his gameplay too. The point and click fear needs to go and maybe change the drain but at least keep it in some form. He have a lot of potential, but atm he needs a change really bad. Also his spammable q is pretty cancer and should change in some form.

  3. Volibear: He could be a cool champion, but he is mostly a stat checking machine. His ult is cool and should be kept in some form, but the rest of his abilities are pretty boring and unexciting to play with. His look haven't aged well either.

  4. DrMundo: This champion really needs a rework too. He mostly throws his q and keep himself alive with his ult, but everything else is kinda meh. I would even consider changing his ult in some form but I'm not sure if there is any other creative ideas for what else would replace it.

  5. Malphite: He is just a big rock, very lacking in identity and thematics. Felt like Riot didn't have any other ideas when they made him so they just picked the simplest idea they could come up with and made a living rock. Pretty unexciting. His visuals are really bad and except for his ult which they probably should keep, everything else needs to go. They should probably do a Galio seized rework of him.

  6. Nocturne: He is a cool champion, but feels not as much like that when you play him. His ult is good, but most of his kit should be changed and his visuals too.

  7. Corki: Maybe the worst looking champion in the game for me. Is that santa claus or what is he? His visuals are scary in a bad way. His gameplay is not that bad, but he feels very out of place. Were should you play him? Mid? Adc? He needs better tools to fill any of these roles or others. His ult and passive isn't that bad tho and maybe his e is kinda ok.

  8. Skarner: He is a bit like mordekaiser. In some ways he is actually pretty okay, but when he isn't strong people don't like to play him. The mini-game with his spires are not bad, but it is too big part of his kit atm. His ult should be a skillshot, kinda like Urgots ult is. His visuals are bad and he lack an identity and thematics. rek'sai is an example of a monster champion that is fine I think and skarner should be more like that for how identity and thematics work.

  9. Rammus: Should maybe be higher, but not sure. Hs gameplay is pretty unexciting except his running. He is too niche, kinda like kassadin. You can only pick him against ad comps pretty much. Except his running, everything else should change except maybe his shielding/thornmail ability.

  10. Tryndamere: I would rework him today, but there are still worse champions on the list so... He is very stat-checky and one dimensional. Have a cool thematic but it doesn't show a lot. He just pslitpush and that's it. Also his crit passive should just go away.

  11. Chogath: His gameplay isn't that bad honestly, but his look is a disaster. Needs the visual update more then the gameplay, but his gameplay might need some updates too.

  12. Shaco: Hard champion to rework. Have many die hard mains, but isn't very good outside of one-shotting and splitting. His visuals definitly needs an update too.

  13. Amumu: He isn't that bad as the others, but in higher elo he isn't very good. He is pretty one dimensional and lack tools to do stuff outside of his ult. Needs a nunu kind of update.

  14. Zilean: Zilean have one of thee strongest ults and should keep that. He also have unique passive, but his gameplay is pretty frustrating to play against and isn't very fun to play with or against. His visuals are also bad.

  15. Udyr He should maybe be higher, I'm not sure. He needs a lot of help on his visuals, but maybe his gameplay needs a big update too. Not sure how or what to change tho, because he is already very unique.

  16. Shyvana: Forgot this champion, but she should be here too. Have a good thematic and identity, but needs visuals and gameplay update.

  17. KogMaw Visual update and maybe a change to his q. Might need a full VGU.

Champions that should be considered for an Ezreal size update:

Anivia Visual update and maybe some tweaks on her abilities Blitzcrank Visual and ability update Diana Gameplay update

Gragas Mostly visual update Quinn Mostly gameplay update I think Teemo Teemo is teemo tho Veigar Visuals MonkeyKing Needs updated gameplay and a better kit.

Just for visuals or ability update like Xin for example: Elise Visuals Garen Visual and some ability tweaks Ziggs Visuals and maybe some gameplay tweaks Nautilus Visual and gameplay update Olaf His looks are pretty outdated and he might need some help on gameplay too Heimerdinger Mostly visual update Vi Needs a bigger niche now when Camille took her spot.

33 Comments

AIQ1 votes

Visual update? You might want to remove Annie because shes fine, Elise is a lot better off than a champion like Shyvana, Garen he looks fine, Hemi you serious? Trist needs visuals you gotta be kidding... right?

Snowbrand1 votes

{quoted}

Visual update? You might want to remove Annie because shes fine, Elise is a lot better off than a champion like Shyvana, Garen he looks fine, Hemi you serious? Trist needs visuals you gotta be kidding... right?

Ah, yes I forgot about Shyvanna. Yes she should be there! Elise is okay, but I think she might need a visual touch. Everything else is fine with her. Well, meddler said he wanted Garen to have a hiigher skill ceiling and so do I. His visuals isn't bad, but a bit generic. His age is showing a bit. Annie don't need a full vgu probably, but if you look at her model you can see that it's more like old ww model then his new for example so she might need a ww like visual update, but maybe not a full gameplay tho. Yea, I think Heimers model look a bit old, his turrets could look much better, but his gameplay is kinda fine (because I can't see how they could change him really). Yea, Tristana is maybe okay tho

AIQ1 votes

I'll give you a pass on Garen, and after all champions that really need Visuals are done, Elise would probably be on the new list. Game play wise a lot of work needs to be done to a lot of champions even good looking ones. So I was kinda just excluding that factor.

Snowbrand1 votes

{quoted}

I'll give you a pass on Garen, and after all champions that really need Visuals are done, Elise would probably be on the new list. Game play wise a lot of work needs to be done to a lot of champions even good looking ones. So I was kinda just excluding that factor.

Yea I forgett to dived the last section between Ezreal size vgu and just a normal gameplay/visual update. Like Elise might not really need any gameplay changes and isn't that bad visually, but could be helped with some visual updates. Yea fair enough

Frosted Tips1 votes

Did you forget that Shyvana is on the tier 1 list as well?

Snowbrand1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Frosted Tips,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hfl36PfQ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-11T17:10:35.759+0000)

Did you forget that Shyvana is on the tier 1 list as well?

Yep, I did lol. She should be there

EDIT: Just added her

Kazekiba1 votes

"Pantheon Ult should be changed so it's not so much like Galio's" Or Bear with me, I know this is kinda controversial to hear but -

Maybe Riot shouldn't have copypasted Pantheon's Ult in the first place, and that the newer champion who has been a balance challenge BECAUSE of that ability (and his Q) should not have kept it. Old Galio's W/R were much better spells. Honestly all Galio needed was Justice Punch to be a playable champion.

Saezio1 votes

You know old galio with just the changed E would be busted as fk right? Being able to have a dash AND his old R would be even worse than current R (100% for soloque, maybe not for pro play) and end up nerfing his ratios to the ground.

Also, the old W on hit heal I loved, and I think that was the actual signature of the champion, I think that was the one spell I wanted to see him maintain because it was so unique

Sukishoo1 votes

Trist and Heimier have already had VGUs. Annie had a VU and is still doing fine. Garen as well had a VU plus gameplay changes later on and is fine for now.

Snowbrand1 votes

{quoted}

Trist and Heimier have already had VGUs. Annie had a VU and is still doing fine. Garen as well had a VU plus gameplay changes later on and is fine for now.

I don't remember tristana, but heimer just had a gameplay update I think and not a visual update? I think he could look a bit better, but it's not very high up. Yea, Annie is kinda okay I guess. Maybe just a splash art like varus or something, but it's not very important I suppose. I think Garen gameplay wise would be helped by a ww kind of update. Keeping him simple, but more opportunities for skill expression.

Snowbrand1 votes

{quoted}

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-KM5EBpkYEZ0/VMdvxkhT9VI/AAAAAAAABAo/HDHklZlQAbo/s1600/basetristanacompare.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-69NYUpyG1ko/Uw_88-Pm7sI/AAAAAAAAMsU/bsSjIieTNsM/s1600/h1.jpg

They are both modern looking for Yordles.

Yea, fair enough. They look pretty good, just remember if Riot would follow this list it would still take a few years to get to heimer or tristana anyway.

Sukishoo1 votes

Well yeah they could literally go back down there list and just revamp all champs at one point or another cause none of them will last forever. However, as of right now (and for some more years to come) they aren't bad. There are far greater offenders of needing visual and/or gameplay work right at this time (that will happen in the next few years)

Snowbrand1 votes

{quoted}

Well yeah they could literally go back down there list and just revamp all champs at one point or another cause none of them will last forever. However, as of right now (and for some more years to come) they aren't bad. There are far greater offenders of needing visual and/or gameplay work right at this time (that will happen in the next few years)

Yea I know, that's why there is at least 17 other champions that have to be reworked or updated before that. And if they do like 5 reworks a year that would be at least 3-4 years at least.

Oleandervine1 votes

Their lists are almost always good, but then they go and add some off the wall shit that makes you go what.... The Ezreal level VGUs are where it goes crazy, because a lot of what you suggest has already received considerable work, and doesn't need Ezreal level work.

Annie - Got a VGU. Could use expanded voice lines, but overall, fine. Does not need an Ezreal level update. Anivia - Kit is clunky. Model is clunky. Needs a real VGU, especially if you're going to have us believe that "Goat" Dwarf Ornn is her brother. Blitzcrank - I'm on the fence, because I believe his hook consumes too much of his power budget, but I can let this one pass. Diana - A gameplay update is not an Ezreal level update. Elise - Looks fine, plays fine. Doesn't need anything. Garen - See note for Annie. Gragas - This one actually could use an Ezreal level VGU. Heimerdinger - See note for Annie. KogMaw - Hell no. Needs a full VGU. He's super clunky and can be volatile in terms of balance. MissFortune - Got a visual update. She needs a new animation rigging (she has no proper recall) and a new VO. Doesn't need an Ezreal level update. Nautilus - Needs more of a visual update than anything. His gameplay is fine, could use some polish, but overall he's near perfect. So kinda, but not as dramatic as Ezreal's. Olaf - Another hell no. See Kog'Maw note. Quinn - Needs a bit of a visual update (her quiver is not attached to her back, her pose is also shit). Gameplay needs a lot of work. I'd say full VGU considering her needs, though more muted, like Aatrox. Singed - His model was updated. His kit was updated. His animations and his VO need severe updating. Not an Ezreal level update. Teemo - Could actually use an Ezreal level update. Tristana - What the fuck? Her update is only 4 years old. She's completely up to modern standards. She was the Ezreal level update before it was even known as the Ezreal level update. GTFO. Veigar - Definitely needs some kit work, on top of his model. I'd say full VGU, though not an immediate Tier 1. Tier 2. Vi - Just no. She's fine. She could use some polish in her kit, but she doesn't need an Ezreal level update, and won't need one for many years. MonkeyKing - Definitely needs an Ezreal level update. His kit's clunky and frustrating for a lot of people, and he's also volatile. His visuals need a polish as well. Ziggs - Visually, he needs a slight polish, but his kit is fine.

Snowbrand1 votes

{quoted}

Their lists are almost always good, but then they go and add some off the wall shit that makes you go what.... The Ezreal level VGUs are where it goes crazy, because a lot of what you suggest has already received considerable work, and doesn't need Ezreal level work.

Annie - Got a VGU. Could use expanded voice lines, but overall, fine. Does not need an Ezreal level update. Anivia - Kit is clunky. Model is clunky. Needs a real VGU, especially if you're going to have us believe that "Goat" Dwarf Ornn is her brother. Blitzcrank - I'm on the fence, because I believe his hook consumes too much of his power budget, but I can let this one pass. Diana - A gameplay update is not an Ezreal level update. Elise - Looks fine, plays fine. Doesn't need anything. Garen - See note for Annie. Gragas - This one actually could use an Ezreal level VGU. Heimerdinger - See note for Annie. KogMaw - Hell no. Needs a full VGU. He's super clunky and can be volatile in terms of balance. MissFortune - Got a visual update. She needs a new animation rigging (she has no proper recall) and a new VO. Doesn't need an Ezreal level update. Nautilus - Needs more of a visual update than anything. His gameplay is fine, could use some polish, but overall he's near perfect. So kinda, but not as dramatic as Ezreal's. Olaf - Another hell no. See Kog'Maw note. Quinn - Needs a bit of a visual update (her quiver is not attached to her back, her pose is also shit). Gameplay needs a lot of work. I'd say full VGU considering her needs, though more muted, like Aatrox. Singed - His model was updated. His kit was updated. His animations and his VO need severe updating. Not an Ezreal level update. Teemo - Could actually use an Ezreal level update. Tristana - What the fuck? Her update is only 4 years old. She's completely up to modern standards. She was the Ezreal level update before it was even known as the Ezreal level update. GTFO. Veigar - Definitely needs some kit work, on top of his model. I'd say full VGU, though not an immediate Tier 1. Tier 2. Vi - Just no. She's fine. She could use some polish in her kit, but she doesn't need an Ezreal level update, and won't need one for many years. MonkeyKing - Definitely needs an Ezreal level update. His kit's clunky and frustrating for a lot of people, and he's also volatile. His visuals need a polish as well. Ziggs - Visually, he needs a slight polish, but his kit is fine.

Yea, so I did some changes on the list after reading this.

rtbf2216514121 votes

I'm honestly done seeing change for the sake of change.

Fiddlesticks fear can be cleansed. If he dies, the fear is automatically gone as well. It's the only hard CC that works like that. He's not terrible either. Just because you can't play with and against him doesn't mean he is bad. But hey, we should make sure more people leave the game because people keep touching shit they shouldn't.

Actually, you have his skills reversed too. HE IS BASED AROUND FEAR. You want to eliminate fear for draining? Have you read his lore and heard his taunts?

They are already reworking him, so it doesn't matter. Cause Riot hasn't made a smart decision in months now.

Snowbrand1 votes

{quoted}

I'm honestly done seeing change for the sake of change.

Fiddlesticks fear can be cleansed. If he dies, the fear is automatically gone as well. It's the only hard CC that works like that. He's not terrible either. Just because you can't play with and against him doesn't mean he is bad. But hey, we should make sure more people leave the game because people keep touching shit they shouldn't.

Actually, you have his skills reversed too. HE IS BASED AROUND FEAR. You want to eliminate fear for draining? Have you read his lore and heard his taunts?

They are already reworking him, so it doesn't matter. Cause Riot hasn't made a smart decision in months now.

Idk, but I still think fiddel is one of the most in need of an update. They changed the fear on ww and it's not targeted and I think that's a better design. There is not really any skill expression for fiddelstick to use his fear on an assassin for example when he dives in. He could keep his fear but make it more like warwicks then. I wouldn't think a lot of people would leave if they rework fiddelstick. He don't have that many mains I think? But if they do a nunu kind of rework he could still stay true to his identity and kit.

rtbf2216514121 votes

{quoted}

Idk, but I still think fiddel is one of the most in need of an update. They changed the fear on ww and it's not targeted and I think that's a better design. There is not really any skill expression for fiddelstick to use his fear on an assassin for example when he dives in. He could keep his fear but make it more like warwicks then. I wouldn't think a lot of people would leave if they rework fiddelstick. He don't have that many mains I think? But if they do a nunu kind of rework he could still stay true to his identity and kit.

The point of a point and click fear is to counter mobility. (Which wasn't it's original intention) That is one less way to counter the cesspool of mobility champions now.

Every single main I have has been reworked to something completely different. Sejuani went from a tank to a bruiser because they kept fucking up on making her a tank. Soraka went from a healer to a Pseudo healer that maxes W only to counter the damage she does to herself (AFTER ALMOST MAXING E FIRST AND HAVING 3 POINTS IN E AT LEVEL 4 or 5). Now I'm awaiting the dumb decision by riot to make fiddlesticks into something not terrifying nor fear based because that is how they been working. I had an entire list of why I hate this cancerous game. This is part of the reason and people defending this garbage change for the sake of change makes me hate it even more.

Snowbrand1 votes

{quoted}

The point of a point and click fear is to counter mobility. That is one less way to counter the cesspool of mobility champions now.

But you can counter mobility with a skillshot fear too? Both Cassiopeia and Singed have to use a skillshot to ground there opponents so it seems fair and reasonable that fiddlestick should have a skillshot like that too.

rtbf2216514121 votes

{quoted}

But you can counter mobility with a skillshot fear too? Both Cassiopeia and Singed have to use a skillshot to ground there opponents so it seems fair and reasonable that fiddlestick should have a skillshot like that too.

No you can't. If someone is teleporting all over the map, you expect to hit a 'skillshot'? Are you kidding? They have a octogon of positions they can use their mobility to position themselves to. You expect to hit a gamble skillshot?

Zed Yasuo Katarina Ezreal Ahri Azir Fizz Akali Diana Pyke Kayn Kassadin Jax

These champions get punished for trying to abuse their kits by his fear. Some with that mobility I was talking about. You want no counter-play to them? Fine. Expect less people. Untargetability should be punishable. That is why Kayn is so fun to PUNISH.

Fiddlesticks is squishy. Of course he wants an INSTANT CAST CC. He doesn't build tanky last time I checked unless you go PURE CC in which you do NO DAMAGE. He dies as fast as he does damage. He isn't broken like you think he is.

Snowbrand1 votes

{quoted}

No you can't. If someone is teleporting all over the map, you expect to hit a 'skillshot'? Are you kidding? They have a octogon of positions they can use their mobility to position themselves to. You expect to hit a gamble skillshot?

Zed Yasuo Katarina Ezreal Ahri Azir Fizz Akali Diana Pyke Kayn Kassadin Jax

These champions get punished for trying to abuse their kits by his fear. Some with that mobility I was talking about. You want no counter-play to them? Fine. Expect less people. Untargetability should be punishable. That is why Kayn is so fun to PUNISH.

Fiddlesticks is squishy. Of course he wants an INSTANT CAST CC. He doesn't build tanky last time I checked unless you go PURE CC in which you do NO DAMAGE. He dies as fast as he does damage. He isn't broken like you think he is.

Okay, so why isn't cassios and singed grounding effects that's literally made to counter mobility not targeted then? You make no sense here. Ye they have an octogon of positions they can use their mobility on, but so does a skillshot. It's 50/50 from both sides as it should be and that's fair. CC counters mobility so you just need to learn to hit skillshots that's all. Untargetability shouldn't be punishable, it should be outplayable.

And there you just explained why fiddelstick is in need of a rework. Not because he is broken, but because his kit is unhealthy and not very balanced and his visuals are lacking

rtbf2216514121 votes

{quoted}

Okay, so why isn't cassios and singed grounding effects that's literally made to counter mobility not targeted then?

When is the last time you seen someone walk in Singed W? Tell me cause I've literally never seen it and I'm level 169. Also, tell me how Cass W doesn't become unreliable at some point.

Snowbrand1 votes

{quoted}

When is the last time you seen someone walk in Singed W? Tell me cause I've literally never seen it and I'm level 169. Also, tell me how Cass W doesn't become unreliable at some point.

I main singed, so it happens pretty often. Good to setup ganks So they can't flash out and stuff like that or in a teamfight when you use it on riven for example. You probably haven't seen it because a lot of people don't play singed very well or at all. But other champions like ww use cc like fear to stop champions to use mobility without it having to be targeted. It just takes a bit more skill to use it, which is good in my opinion.

rtbf2216514121 votes

{quoted}

It just takes a bit more skill to use it, which is good in my opinion.

If you mained singed, you would realize there is a difference between HIS HP AND FIDDLESTICKS HP.

That and you can't immobilize someone who is basically off the map like Kayn and Fizz but you do you. (Oh by the way, did I forget to mention Kayn AGAIN?)

I think you are just mad that singed doesn't have a good time against fiddlesticks. I would know because singed players get feared consistently by me as a means of BM. Even though fear doesn't do damage and would technically help you kite if you were speed boosted but hey let's not learn how to abuse a fiddlesticks Q and call him op.

Regardless, he is getting reworked. Well done. More drones of people leave from EVERY REWORK. But you won't realize until this game doesn't become the top three. Actually if it was only top 50 at some point I doubt you would realize either in your current state of mind. People are looking for better games. It's becoming clear through twitch.

Snowbrand1 votes

{quoted}

If you mained singed, you would realize there is a difference between HIS HP AND FIDDLESTICKS HP.

That and you can't immobilize someone who is basically off the map like Kayn and Fizz but you do you. (Oh by the way, did I forget to mention Kayn AGAIN?)

I think you are just mad that singed doesn't have a good time against fiddlesticks. I would know because singed players get feared consistently by me as a means of BM. Even though fear doesn't do damage and would technically help you kite if you were speed boosted but hey let's not learn how to abuse a fiddlesticks Q and call him op.

Regardless, he is getting reworked. Well done. More drones of people leave from EVERY REWORK. But you won't realize until this game doesn't become the top three. Actually if it was only top 50 at some point I doubt you would realize either in your current state of mind. People are looking for better games. It's becoming clear through twitch.

Yea, but you forget cassio, she have low hp too (and other champions with hard skillshot cc that can stop mobility).

Yea, it's kinda the point of untargetability, you outplay them before or after they go untargetable.

I'm not sure what's ur point or why u are so mad? I listed 20-30 other champions too that should get rework. I didn't make a post about fiddelstick. But yes, that fear is a bit of a problem because you can't outplay it. You only need to press ur ability to fear someone. I don't only main singed, I could pick something else if I wanted to counter fiddelstick.

Yea he probably gets reworked like a lot of other champions, because they need it. I don't think drones of people are leaving tho, but I don't really care because I don't work for riot. But i prefer the game to evolve and get better then to stay the same since beta. Yea, people get bored if they play a game for too long usually, so people would leave even if they didn't do anything. Probably more people would leave if it just stayed the same, but I just speculate.

rtbf2216514121 votes

{quoted}

Yea, but you forget cassio, she have low hp too (and other champions with hard skillshot cc that can stop mobility).

Yea, it's kinda the point of untargetability, you outplay them before or after they go untargetable.

I'm not sure what's ur point or why u are so mad? I listed 20-30 other champions too that should get rework.

The point >>>

Your head >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

{quoted} But yes, that fear is a bit of a problem because you can't outplay it.

LOL Im done.

Snowbrand1 votes

{quoted}

The point >>>

Your head >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

LOL Im done.

Sure, you can still "outplay" it with cleanse or qss just like you could with old warwicks ult or old irelias stun or old akali ultimate or old nunus e and so on. But as I said, his point and click fear isn't the only reason he needs a rework. His visuals and him being squishy but having a playstyle that puts him in the center of a teamfight with any real tools to do so and frustrating gameplay with his e is more reasons why riot probably and hopefully will rework him too^^ u might disagree, but looking at the logic used for other reworks, it seems fair fiddelstick should be on that list too

rtbf2216514121 votes

{quoted}

Sure, you can still "outplay" it with cleanse or qss just like you could with old warwicks ult or old irelias stun or old akali ultimate or old nunus e and so on. But as I said, his point and click fear isn't the only reason he needs a rework. His visuals and him being squishy but having a playstyle that puts him in the center of a teamfight with any real tools to do so and frustrating gameplay with his e is more reasons why riot probably and hopefully will rework him too^^ u might disagree, but looking at the logic used for other reworks, it seems fair fiddelstick should be on that list too

Okay let me try to be unbiased here and explain a little better of why I want him to stay the same despite his kit being so cancerous (Like Yasuo).

The combination of mobility and untargetability is more cancerous than having a skill that is actually slower than a Master Yi Q. I'm not sure how to explain this even more. A squishy having a CC skill that can be eliminated on death and all a person has to do is one shot him is ridiculous. Damage is so high and tanks are a fucking joke right now as well. Since we can't have nice things (Thanks rito), we need some way to psuedo tank. That is why Fiddlesticks comes into play. Literally ALMOST NOBODY plays him the way I do. If they did, they would see him more cancerous as I do but wouldn't know what to do at the same time since mobility creep is cancerous as well. His Fear is absolutely r- (Insert non-politically correct term here) but the thing is simple.

Warwick fear has a startup time THAT REDUCES DAMAGE. Other characters also have a fear that does SOMETHING ELSE besides fear. Fiddlesticks is literally the only champion in the game that can CC someone under tower to punish people camping. THE ONLY CHAMPION. And the only champion that has a CC skill that does absolutely nothing useful but provide CC. THE ONLY CHAMPION. Hence, I absolutely DETEST the fact the reason you want him reworked only because he ABSOLUTELY SHITS ON singed. In fact, I think Singed needs a stronger rework than Fiddlesticks ever does. But, clearly Riot doesn't think someone who provides less game viewers needs more of a rework than a champion who was low-key broken last season. But hey, HOW DOES THAT MAKE YOU FEEL?

Here is another fun fact: The target group Rito is going towards isn't working. They are pissing off competitive players. They are pissing off new players. They are pissing off Liberals. They are pissing off Conservatives. They are pissing off old mains and new mains. They are changing shit for the sake of change to the extent that I went back to Tera to actually experience what a traditional support and tank SHOULD FEEL LIKE.

That is quite pathetic.

Snowbrand1 votes

{quoted}

Okay let me try to be unbiased here and explain a little better of why I want him to stay the same despite his kit being so cancerous (Like Yasuo).

The combination of mobility and untargetability is more cancerous than having a skill that is actually slower than a Master Yi Q. I'm not sure how to explain this even more. A squishy having a CC skill that can be eliminated on death and all a person has to do is one shot him is ridiculous. Damage is so high and tanks are a fucking joke right now as well. Since we can't have nice things (Thanks rito), we need some way to psuedo tank. That is why Fiddlesticks comes into play. Literally ALMOST NOBODY plays him the way I do. If they did, they would see him more cancerous as I do but wouldn't know what to do at the same time since mobility creep is cancerous as well. His Fear is absolutely r- (Insert non-politically correct term here) but the thing is simple.

Warwick fear has a startup time THAT REDUCES DAMAGE. Other characters also have a fear that does SOMETHING ELSE besides fear. Fiddlesticks is literally the only champion in the game that can CC someone under tower to punish people camping. THE ONLY CHAMPION. And the only champion that has a CC skill that does absolutely nothing useful but provide CC. THE ONLY CHAMPION. Hence, I absolutely DETEST the fact the reason you want him reworked only because he ABSOLUTELY SHITS ON singed. In fact, I think Singed needs a stronger rework than Fiddlesticks ever does. But, clearly Riot doesn't think someone who provides less game viewers needs more of a rework than a champion who was low-key broken last season. But hey, HOW DOES THAT MAKE YOU FEEL?

Here is another fun fact: The target group Rito is going towards isn't working. They are pissing off competitive players. They are pissing off new players. They are pissing off Liberals. They are pissing off Conservatives. They are pissing off old mains and new mains. They are changing shit for the sake of change to the extent that I went back to Tera to actually experience what a traditional support and tank SHOULD FEEL LIKE.

That is quite pathetic.

Yea, I totally disagree with you but that's fine^^ I feel like we won't get any further tho.

Well, you don't really know what I'm thinking right? I actually put singed in the rework list aswell first, then someone pointed out that he alread got a visual update and some changes. But I still think he might need a full VGU sooner or later yes even tho I like him as he his right now. Lol, me playing Singed have actually 0 to do with me putting him on the rework list.

Everything you do will piss off some players, but I'm unsure how many there are as you say there are. I can't back it up except anecdotal evidence and neither can you unless you have some hard facts? But that's is a bit off topic either way, because it's kinda irrelevant if a champion should be reworked or not.

Shahamut1 votes

Everything you said about Skarner is wrong... just wrong.

His ult doesn't need to be a skill shot, and the spires are ANYTHING but ok. Wrote a long post about the spires in gameplay+, if you are at all interested in Skarner as a champion, I would suggest you go read it.

Snowbrand1 votes

{quoted}

Everything you said about Skarner is wrong... just wrong.

His ult doesn't need to be a skill shot, and the spires are ANYTHING but ok. Wrote a long post about the spires in gameplay+, if you are at all interested in Skarner as a champion, I would suggest you go read it.

Yea, I'm fine with the spires personally tho. But I think every supress should be a skillshot because it's such a powerpful ability. Warwick got a skillshot on his supress and so do malzahar and skarner. I might read it, but Skarner is on Riots offical tierlist too so I'm not alone in my opinion of Skarner needing a rework.

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