"Damage from Energized procs now stacks, rather than using the strongest one"

Bârd·Oct 22, 2019·52 votes·16,595 views

Riot, did you learn nothing from the last time this was a thing?

47 Comments

Done25Oct 22, 201928 votes

They're also lowering the base scaling damage on energized procs, but triple stack proc late game on Jhin's 4th shot is looking to be scary...

Anu3isIIOct 22, 20198 votes

Isn't his IE Stacking and RFC on top a scarier combo?

ZackTheWaffleManOct 23, 201910 votes

item 3094 item 3087 item 3095 item 3031

Why not both?

Done25Oct 23, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Isn't his IE Stacking and RFC on top a scarier combo?

Better single target perhaps, but after the change a chain lightning triple proc crit on Jhin goes from 324 damage to 555 damage.

TailsDoll Oct 23, 20193 votes

We were this close to greatness. About 111 dmg close.

Pika FoxOct 23, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Isn't his IE Stacking and RFC on top a scarier combo?

It also costs a shit ton more gold.

Trist mid opopOct 23, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Isn't his IE Stacking and RFC on top a scarier combo?

5 rabadons and a voidstaff with a stack of traps*

Spicy RiceOct 22, 201911 votes

to be fair, a triple stacked jhin on 4th shot should be scary

5050BSOct 22, 201919 votes

They never learn/remember from the past. Its like every few months a whole new team is put in charge of changes and they dont/cant talk to past teams.

PerfecJhinOct 23, 20193 votes

{quoted}

They never learn/remember from the past. Its like every few months a whole new team is put in charge of changes and they dont/cant talk to past teams.

Except they reduced the base dmg for shiv and rfc. Now if you get both it does 160 dmg on proc, instead of the 140 either of them had before.

BLACK REALM GODOct 23, 20191 votes

{quoted}

They never learn/remember from the past. Its like every few months a whole new team is put in charge of changes and they dont/cant talk to past teams.

this is what happens when you keep firing/hiring new employees.

TwitchInMyPantsOct 23, 201911 votes

If it happened over 2 years ago Riot basically forgot its a thing

If you pay attention I think you'd be surprised how many things they backpedal on balance and design wise

3TWarriorOct 23, 201912 votes

TwistedFate money money!

-A few Zilean nerfs later-

TwistedFate T.T

Pyke : money money!

JackMcCarryOct 23, 20192 votes

To be fair, TF just got extra money period for farming, there's not much interactivity there, Pyke has to ult someone, it's kind of on the same page as Draven, i see this as pretty consistant.

Pyke is still annoying AF tho

3TWarriorOct 23, 20191 votes

I don't remember the rate but let's say it is the same as now for everyone...actually, looked it up on the wiki and it's not even close

his old passive gave everyone 2 gold including himself. At around 200 creeps average per game, that's 1600 extra team gold, but only 400 for each individual. It's powerful, but not ridiculous.

If we look at pyke, it's a guaranteed 300 gold for his ally so long as he lands the killing blow. at one kill, he has already increased an ally's gold by 225 more than an assist would have

now, kills may have been possible for other supports to give to carries, but then, math gets involved. Pyke gets 300 instead of the assist value as well(actually, his numbers are even weirder). If we took this at default value, that would mean an extra 225 gold per kill, however, if pyke is unsuccessful and his team member instead secures the kill, Pyke is awarded 600 gold or 525 bonus gold compared to the assist value that ceased to exist

in addition to this, the X of his ultimate does not have to deal damage to an opponent for him to claim his double "your cut" , so he can gain multiple kill values very quickly

in these odd situations, it's actually better for the team for allies to secure the kill inside of his zone, but the simple math is: if pyke kills, 225 bonus gold

if ally kills, 525 bonus gold

if ally kills without pyke interacting, 600 bonus gold

if you take this in bottom lane, a double kill for the carry can award 1050 to 1200 gold to pyke or in the least damaging, 450 gold to another team member

#Basically, Pyke can easily do what old TF did and more depending upon how the numbers get divided, even able to make himself into the carry

GigglesOOct 23, 20198 votes

On this episode of what will ezreal abuse next.

BârdOct 23, 20192 votes

Ezreal's Q can't crit.

Even if he can technically apply it, its a massive waste of gold since he's largely wasting the crit chance, and he can't get the empowered shiv lightning.

GigglesOOct 23, 20191 votes

Joke You

GripaAviaraNov 19, 20191 votes

Q Can't crit, but his autos can

Bouncemaster ZacOct 23, 20196 votes

Can't wait for Vayne to one-shot crit me with a single tumble auto at 750 range again!

ThefrostyvikingOct 23, 20192 votes

Draven with a Q

Daddy AntsNov 19, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bouncemaster Zac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HQp2twQd,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-10-23T03:36:20.736+0000)

Can't wait for Vayne to one-shot crit me with a single tumble auto at 750 range again!

Tumble can't crit though.

Sewer SideOct 23, 20195 votes

They neutered Shiv and RFC damage for it, so I’d say yes, they did learn from it last time.

Shiv is garbage atm anyways, I don’t see this helping

RewtOct 22, 20193 votes

Well.... I guess this is a buff to Shockmaster Hecarim so that's cool I guess.

I am RazgrizOct 23, 20191 votes

I don't think we had the current version of Stormrazor either back then.

Death RexOct 23, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Well.... I guess this is a buff to Shockmaster Hecarim so that's cool I guess.

For people who do not know what he means: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDRwyT_ILcc

BLACK REALM GODOct 23, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Death Rex,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HQp2twQd,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-10-23T13:27:47.056+0000)

For people who do not know what he means: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDRwyT_ILcc

that song... is catchy... and so inappropriate.

hiyaresOct 23, 20193 votes

to be fair crit adcs are kind of in a bad spot atm and this is after the adc nerfs and tweeks so if anything it just brings them slightly better 3rd item damage? right now Kaisa and Ezreal Xayah are insanely strong becasue of how safe and versatile they can be. So honestly i am all for crit adcs getting that minor change it makes sense.

Serika ZeroOct 23, 20193 votes

{quoted}

to be fair crit adcs are kind of in a bad spot atm and this is after the adc nerfs and tweeks so if anything it just brings them slightly better 3rd item damage? right now and are insanely strong becasue of how safe and versatile they can be. So honestly i am all for crit adcs getting that minor change it makes sense.

Are they insanely strong before you see them in pro play? Or why?

Stats for na: Ashe 54% win rate, 25% pick rate Jinx 52% win rate, 13% pick rate Kaisa 48% win rate, 40% pick rate Caitlyn 50% win rate, 14% pick rate Vayne 50% win rate, 9% pick rate Lucian 49% win rate, 20% pick rate Ezreal 47% win rate, 29% pick rate Xayah 49% win rate, 14% pick rate MissFortune 53% win rate, 5% pick rate

Win rate wise, its Ashe, Mf, Jinx, Cait, Vayne Pick rate wise its Kai'sa, Ezreal, Ashe, Lucian, Cait and Xayah

So, it looks more like you got a beef with popular ADCs pro play ADCs than anything else. Ps, the reason why they pick these in lc$ along side with Tristana is due their safety. Kai'sa has safety from her build path and ult. Ezreal from his build path and ult, and Xayah from her ult. Because they are more "safe" they can stay alive for longer doing more damage than someone that dies earlier, even if overall their damage is lower.

SaezioOct 23, 20192 votes

48% is far too much for 40% pick rate.

Means everyone and their monthers are playing the champion and it's winrate isn't suffering much.

Imagine if riven/zed had 40% pick rate and 48% winrate. Boards would be raging hard

Serika ZeroOct 24, 20191 votes

Adcs are like that. I remember when other adcs had that pick rate and where over 50% win rate.

Adc is a bit more special role since they are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO similar, usually adc players don't main a champion, but play more than one and will usually pick the top meta picks.

Right now, Kai'sa is a top meta pick as she can get a lot of defenses from items (on the contrary to boards, reddit and other places that scream that damage is to high, kai'sa is picked a lot because she can go defensive)

SaezioOct 24, 20191 votes

What patch did any adc have 40% pickrate? When was that? No adc ever had kai'sa pickrates to my knowledge. Can you be more specific?

If kai'sa going defensive meant she did almost no damage to anyone with defences it would be acceptable, the problem is that champ gets DPS + BURST from items that are not supposed to give these attributes.

Serika ZeroOct 25, 20191 votes

lucian and ezreal both had very high pick rates at different times, especially when they were meta.

kai'sa has more "dps up time", the only burst she ever does is passive proc with Q or W. Which is why my main purpose for her nerf is to stop the possibility of team mates to give her extra passive stacks she does not do "dps + burst", but it usually looks like that to you when you build no defensive items.

Also, since when "going defensive" means no damage? While kai'sa does go defensive, her first 2 items or 3 are pure offense. So that's 2 defensive items. But still that's usually 2 more defensive items than most people these days which go full damage and then complain "there's just to much damage in this game". Well yeh, have you tried building defensively for once?

SaezioOct 25, 20191 votes

6 item kai'sa with 2 defensive items, how long do you think it takes her to kill a squishy? WRQEauto and they are dead 0.2 seconds after she exits stealth. That's just not right.

And she has been pick/ban in pro for an entire season now. No signs of nerfs so we can see other ADCs be played. She combines safety dps versatility burst and a not so easily punished early game compared to say Kog, another hyperscaling ADC.

Serika ZeroOct 25, 20191 votes

how long do you think it takes me, as a 6 items Diana to kill a Kai'sa if she didn't build Banshee's and she build anything else? Hint, 0.3 seconds.

How long does it take me to kill her if she has a team? I won't.... Kai'sa is not a "hyper scaling adc". That's the mistake most people make, she's a good scaling one, just like Lucian, just like Cait, just like Ashe. She is not a hyper carry like Vayne, or Kog. But she has higher dps uptime since she doesn't die as easy, and she has a way to enter fights (again, passive proc from teammates)

Also, Kai'sa will not kill a squishy with WRQE auto. To begin with her R does no damage, you only use it for shield or positioning or chasing, its not part of combos. Second, her W deals more damage the more plasma stacks her target has, so, she will use it towards the end of her combo for higher dps (again, her dps is as high as you imply). And for her Q to do a lot of damage it requires her target to be isolated.

So no, its not WRQE auto. Btw, did you know that kai'sa E locks her out of actually attacking or using abilities? You will very rarely use it as dps and more so as a way to prevent damage, and then dps back to make up for your lost down time with the bonus attack speed, so while your dps isn't really hurt, you will still take longer to kill that target.

So back again, her late game combo is going to be: auto q auto w auto ;) And since Q loses like 50% damage if you are not isolated, and W can be body blocked, the way kai'sa kills squishies in late game is if they are stupid enough to face her 1v1 without trying to blow her up.

Daddy AntsNov 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

What patch did any adc have 40% pickrate? When was that? No adc ever had kai'sa pickrates to my knowledge. Can you be more specific?

If kai'sa going defensive meant she did almost no damage to anyone with defences it would be acceptable, the problem is that champ gets DPS + BURST from items that are not supposed to give these attributes.

Ezreal had near 50% at beginning of season,

hiyaresOct 23, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Serika Zero,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HQp2twQd,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-10-23T05:12:47.910+0000)

Are they insanely strong before you see them in pro play? Or why?

Stats for na: 54% win rate, 25% pick rate 52% win rate, 13% pick rate 48% win rate, 40% pick rate 50% win rate, 14% pick rate 50% win rate, 9% pick rate 49% win rate, 20% pick rate 47% win rate, 29% pick rate 49% win rate, 14% pick rate 53% win rate, 5% pick rate

Win rate wise, its Ashe, Mf, Jinx, Cait, Vayne Pick rate wise its Kai'sa, Ezreal, Ashe, Lucian, Cait and Xayah

So, it looks more like you got a beef with popular ADCs pro play ADCs than anything else. Ps, the reason why they pick these in lc$ along side with is due their safety. Kai'sa has safety from her build path and ult. Ezreal from his build path and ult, and Xayah from her ult. Because they are more "safe" they can stay alive for longer doing more damage than someone that dies earlier, even if overall their damage is lower.

kaisa litteraly has a 40 percent play rate lmfao. her kit is over stacked and needs to be looked at. and you litteraly just said the same thing thay are safe and thats why they are better also another thing Lucian Ezreal Vayne MissFortune dont have to go crit lmfao they have lethality builds as well as the ability to build into various item paths and or vayne can be played as an on hit with rage blade. caitlying is fine honestly her early game is okay her mid game is garbage if she can get into the late game she does well. and one last thing here Ashe technically cant crit it slightly enhances her passive and gives her some damage while enemies are slowed soooo yeah shes not a crit adc.

ThefrostyvikingOct 23, 20191 votes

{quoted}

to be fair crit adcs are kind of in a bad spot atm and this is after the adc nerfs and tweeks so if anything it just brings them slightly better 3rd item damage? right now and are insanely strong becasue of how safe and versatile they can be. So honestly i am all for crit adcs getting that minor change it makes sense.

They are bad because they are too unsafe, ideally they shouldnt be pushed into being viable by having them 1hitKO any threat that gets in range.

Radiant SeraphOct 23, 20193 votes

Proc damage was lowered significantly, so now it's not a 2 item spike through shiv + ie. Now if you want the energized spike you give up building AD to a net DPS loss.

ModAcademy KaynOct 23, 20193 votes

The amount of people in the comments who haven't even read the change themselves, let alone the OP, talking about "Riot forgetting", is pretty funny. Damage on all of them is being piratically halfed on all of them, with a net buff of 20 if you buy two, but a huge net nerf early game when you only have one.

Jesi OniOct 23, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HQp2twQd,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-10-23T07:06:34.262+0000)

The amount of people in the comments who haven't even read the change themselves, let alone the OP, talking about "Riot forgetting", is pretty funny. Damage on all of them is being piratically halfed on all of them, with a net buff of 20 if you buy two, but a huge net nerf early game when you only have one.

Item will be cheaper then? Shiv is pretty garbage next to Phantom Dancer without nerfs 🤔

LightswornLanceOct 23, 20192 votes

They decreased the damage. Shiv and RFC went from 60-140 scaling by level to 60-80 but now it stacks, also they buffed stormrazors damage by a bit. When they said storm razor was only viable on one champion I wonder if it's graves because storm razor is actually pretty good on him.

Skia AsteriOct 23, 20193 votes

{quoted}

They decreased the damage. Shiv and RFC went from 60-140 scaling by level to 60-80 but now it stacks, also they buffed stormrazors damage by a bit. When they said storm razor was only viable on one champion I wonder if it's graves because storm razor is actually pretty good on him.

It is likely Kaisa , and it is good for her only because it has the correct stat profile to get her ability upgrades sooner.

NoraverOct 23, 20192 votes

Laughs in Caitlin Energized-Rapidfire Cannon-ARAM-Headshots

Jesi OniOct 23, 20191 votes

Soo... Stormrazor will be a first item now instead of Infinity Edge? 😅

item 3095 item 3094 item 3087

OneriosOct 23, 20191 votes

Na, even with the energiser stacking you still get more effective DPS and burst damage by going IE/ER/Shiv then Razor/RFC/Shiv. If riot wants to make the energiser build a thing they either need to significantly up the quantity of stats the zeal energiser items give or give Razor Crit. (AS doesn't add all that much dps to ADCs compared to more AD or Crit until you've stacked huge quantities of AD already)

macspamOct 23, 20191 votes

I support this. Stormrazor right now is too niche, who takes it other than kaisa and that's because of her extremely unconventional build path? It feels like there's no reason youd get stormrazor on any other ADC right now.