All these threads about how "busted" zoe is

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zoe isn't busted wtf

she's flat

Thank you, I needed that this morning. This guy needs a medal.

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Zoe's kit is extremly unhealthy. And justifying this kit just by comparing it to old nidalee is not an argument. Back then people complained about nidalee all the time. And finally she got reworked because of her kit being too unhealthy.

You say it's unhealthy, but what about it is unhealthy? Her w is situational and she doesn't win vs enemies with gap closers typically if she misses her e. If you get one shot from fog of war, then you're not doing your part warding probably. Zoe is very squishy and easy to punish herself. There's not much they can change about this champion unless they rework her completely. She is fsirly balanced right now and if you don't build against her than that's your fault and you deserve to be one shot. Zoe has no escape tools so jusy easily play around that.

[{quoted}](name=Malix Farwin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HNk1bBzy,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-30T06:24:55.259+0000)

Well in general people make the laziest comparisons a lot of times.

Old Nidalee was different in the following ways:

Faster execution Shorter Cooldown More damage Self Heal Better mobility(can also jump through walls) Less Setup(didnt have to land another skillshot or did she have to wind it back)

Definitely, this post mainly was to poke fun at the people who think Zoe is "OP". Nidalee back then, (though the missile is slightly slower) dealt way more damage with a max range spear and it was hard to avoid due to the lack of mobility and how it could come out of fog of war randomly (If you remember that old bug). Plus being able to throw it out every three seconds and it invalidating the rest of her kit was toxic gameplay, moreso than our current burst champ (who can't get away from anything and everything with a free flash every 2 seconds like nidalee since zoe's ult returns her back to where she ported from.)

Had an actual escape tool as compared to Zoe R.

[{quoted}](name=ı Sona ı,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HNk1bBzy,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-12-30T06:33:59.869+0000)

Zoe is busted.

But Neeko is more busted.

So where does that leave us.. [sg-lux-2]

Neeko just needs a change in her q imo and her ult ratio tweaked (or just doesn't give a shield at all). To balance her out the best method would be to reward neeko with hitting all instances of her q with the third proc doing the most damage instead of the opposite which is what we have right now. It should reward neeko for hitting her combo e>q and not just be a quick aoe poke spell. Also, stop with three hit passives...

Neeko is garbage. Nobody cares about her. Leave her alone and let her be forgotten. Nobody needs a champion that is badly designed.

[{quoted}](name=Rock MD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HNk1bBzy,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-12-30T08:34:17.456+0000)

Nidalee's Spear is significantly slower

Nidalee had no hard CC

Nidalee didn't use summoner spells as a basic ability

Nidalee didn't have safe waveclear and an afk laning phase

I was here and I complained a number of times about Nidalee back in the day. This thread is stupid.

A. Zoe's initial Q is as slow as nidalee spear going out, the rebound is when it's faster.

B. Nidalee didn't need hard CC to 100-0 through FoW

C. Zoe doesn't have a free flash every two seconds :') (AKA if you use your summs vs zoe and lose the trade it means you misplayed and didn't respect her summoner spell usability. Go into game saying "I have ignite, and Zoe has ignite." But Zoe most likely has barrier and will outplay you because you don't respect it.)

D. Safe waveclear? where? Zoe's q is a decent cooldown and decent mana cost early, I never have cs above my opponent when laning. You seem to be misinformed here. Yes she isn't as prone to ganks maybe. But that's how she should be played since she is really squishy and easily 100-0'd by any other champ in the game. Afk laning phase? most champs can poke her out of lane pre-6 unless she's playing super safe or they misplay into a bubble. Most of the time with my experience you try to poke your opponent out, and possibly gank other lanes because it's near impossible to keep up in cs with most other mid laners with their poke pressure. Straight line skillshots that are easily avoided by standing behind minions.

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HNk1bBzy,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-12-30T09:40:14.812+0000)

If this thread gets more then 10 downvotes I will be disappointed massively in the community.

As will I friend, as will I. Zoe imo doesn't feel as unfair and is more fun to play than this old monstrosity that people have seem to forgotten.

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I mean. You have to be blind to not dodge Nedalee's spear. It should only hit if it comes from a bush or fog of war. Zoe's Q is faster and she has e, that makes q so much easier to hit. Also that e can go through walls and hit you when you can't even see it nor Zoe. Then q follows and kills you.

With Nedalee only damage can be compared, not unfairness of gameplay. When smb hits Nedalee spear I am kinda amazed, but when Zoe puts smb to sleep and then hits q on a non moving target and oneshots him ... it's just unfair. Add to that the fact that she gets free sums the entire laning phase. 3 redemptions or gunblades. It feels RNG as fuck.

It is RNG with spell shards, but be glad they removed teleport. Zoe E has an audible sound traveling through walls and you should be warding walls she could hit you from anyways in your lane. The cc is countered with any spell shield or cleanse. It's not really that unfair, its her kit. She is much squishier than other champions but is much more damaging, she's easy to catch out and kill because of her immobility and squishiness. Also, nidalee spear used to do disappearing acts that were really unfair and the hitbox on the projectile was forever wonky back then.