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Rengar isn't any fun anymore.

48983507DEL1··52 votes·3,567 views

I don't care if he's statistically fine or above average. He's not a fun champion.

He's not fun to play as, and especially not fun to play against. His kit is boring and extremely linear, with way too many flaws to ever be balanced.

His Q doesn't mix well with the rest of his kit. It's awkward to use and feels very inconsistent. On top of that, it lacks the synergy that the old Q had as a mix with his combo, making it far less satisfying to use.

His W is a mistake. It's not something you give an assassin. Ever. Both the heal and the CC removal is something better suited for a bruiser, hence why people started building him that way. In addition, it doesn't make sense to have this on a combo-heavy character. He HAS to blow this ability as soon as he jumps in or he can't get 5 stacks. There's almost no situation where saving it for later in the fight would make more sense than just using it immediately, since he's pretty much useless after he's used his ultimate. Speaking of which...

His R does the exact opposite of what it was conceived to do. Its original purpose was to stealthily take out a target who was isolated. This reworked form immediately alerts anyone halfway across the map of his presence, completely defeating the purpose of picking targets off. You can never use it unless you plan on team fighting, since the target has more than enough time to run and get help before you can reach them.

Also, the Crit he gets is stupid. Riot said he shouldn't be able to 1 shot people anymore, yet they add this gimmicky critical strike which can nearly execute a target outright. It's far easier to do than performing a full combo with old Rengar.

His kit can't decide whether it wants to be a bruiser or an assassin. His W and Ult would lead me to believe he's a bruiser, but his Bonus AD ratios make it seem like he's an assassin. I can almost guarantee Riot didn't know either. His whole kit is a mess, and shouldn't exist in this current state.

Hopefully he'll get some sort of changes, but I'm pretty confident Riot believes Rengar's initial existence was a mistake and wish to bury him.

43 Comments

vash th stampede10 votes

I can't play him until that q is just removed. Dash semi-auto reset aoe thing... just wtf.

48983507DEL19 votes

It's so damn awkward to use. It feels like fractions of other abilities stitched together unprofessionally.

It's a dash...except not really.

It's an AoE...except not really.

It's a linear shot...except not really.

It's an auto reset...except not really.

It's overloaded...and can't carry it's weight as a result.

h5LYF41Lam2 votes

at least he does not get 6 billion autoattack resets.

flomper1 votes

{quoted}

at least he does not get 6 billion autoattack resets.

Lol you're right but it doesn't matter because now he only needs one to one shot any squishy in the game in under a second

Rengar Top Lane8 votes

In same boat as you bud. I've wandered through champs since reng reworked, put in hours testing him, and just lost atm lol. League in general is unfun unless I'm playing with friends now.

Plàcidium7 votes

100% agreed was an old rengar main and now I dont even play him anymore since I feel like he is a skill less piece of shit and have completely removed his skill factor which was getting the combo down when all you really need to do now is jump on the person you can crit

KnifeCat5 votes

I made a similiar post about Rengo the other day. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/rilz1Aps-revert-rengar-already-new-rengar-is-an-abomination

the rework is a huge failure..

Like he's no longer a hunter (ult changes), but yet he still one shots (crit/passive/q) and does it so easily that u can go mostly tank and still jump in, 1 shot, press W remove CC and walk out .... He takes no skill at all and is a far bigger atrocity than he has ever been.

Nerfing him isn't gonna work, it's just gonna put him in a similiar position as Morde, they need to revert him. If you nerf his dmg to make him more of a fighter, then he'll become useless because apart from dmg he offers nothing else as a bruiser/tank. & if you nerf his W further (and probably R crit because it also makes bruiser so good) and push him towards assassin he'll also become useless because R doesn't allow him to be a hunter anymore, and only works because bruiser Rengo is good enough to make use of it in teamfights.

48983507DEL11 votes

Was very much inspired by this post.

That and I played a few games as Rengar and felt completely unsatisfied.

Elisheva4 votes

His rework was a complete failure, but people who don't know what they are talking about still take a lot of damage from him after they give him kills and items, and claim he is just as strong, and i've seen my fair share of people saying he is stronger. Literally his entire kit is dodgable now, he has lowered utility because they completely removed his heal, his stealth isn't stealth anymore, he can't stack ferocity to have ganks that matter, he lost even more utility because of his bonetooth changes, and overall he's just a shell of who he used to be. Such a shame, not a surprise, but a shame.

Handin Out Naps3 votes

Old rengar was easily my second favorite champ, but this Rengar is so bleh. I miss his old Q, he felt like a hunter, he felt like he was ruthlessly ripping his prey apart. Now he does this weird Dash and Slash attack that not only looks dumb but feels terrible. Hope they revert him one day, not only is he less fun to play as, but he is also way less healthy. Old Rengar had to Emp Q, Bola, W+Tiamat incredibly fast to one shot. New Rengar just auto, q's out of ult.. this champ is a joke now.

Lauchmelder3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Prom Queen Annie,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HHoeWq6b,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-02-22T02:40:06.208+0000) He's not fun to play as, and especially not fun to play against. His kit is boring and extremely linear, with way too many flaws to ever be balanced.

You literally described the assassin class with that.

Regarding Rengar, all he ever needed was an R change so the "!" mark showed earlier. If they just made the radius scale with movespeed so people actually had time to react before he killed you he would have been balanced.

48983507DEL11 votes

What people don't realize is that there's only so much time Riot can give the victim before his ultimate isn't considered a "stealthy" ability anymore.

Someone please tell my what's so secretive about the ENTIRE enemy team knowing you're coming despite not having vision of you?

Lauchmelder2 votes

And what's so fair about not having at least a warning before you get instagibbed?

That was what the "!" did, it just didn't work because with his most common build he just outran it in a sense that you had no time to react either way.

But I get it. Assassin mains don't want balance, they just want assassins to be broken op.

48983507DEL12 votes

I said "only so much" for a reason. The ! was necessary for Solo Queue where there was no coordination in warding.

However, your suggestion to increase the radius just furthers the step away from "stealth". There is no way you can argue that "alerting everyone as soon as he presses R" is considered stealthy.

Also, there is time to react with proper warding and grouping. Just because you want to farm alone as a squishy champion doesn't mean there isn't counterplay.

We want balance. We also want our champion to be fun to play. Stripping away his identity to pander to the people who don't understand the champion is not fun.

Lauchmelder2 votes

As an Ex support main with an average of 1 ward/min with a permanent 3 green wards on the map it feels like a joke that you tell me to ward more.

But if you're the only one warding Rengar is BOUND to find a way to approach without being seen. And then he just jumped you the second you saw the "!" mark thanks to his ult, mobi boots and Ghostblade.

There's a difference between having counterplay and having counterplay in a. 5 second timeframe.

flomper1 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HHoeWq6b,comment-id=000c00000000,timestamp=2017-02-22T21:53:26.789+0000)

And what's so fair about not having at least a warning before you get instagibbed?

That was what the "!" did, it just didn't work because with his most common build he just outran it in a sense that you had no time to react either way.

But I get it. Assassin mains don't want balance, they just want assassins to be broken op.

This actually the dumbest argument I've seen so far. OK to start let's get the obvious one out of the way.

ASSASSINS WEREN'T BROKEN, believe it or not assassins are one of the weakest and least relevant classes in the game, Rengar's highest win rate build currently is building him bruiser not assassin. People were able to climb as top, mid, jg, support, and yes even adc when old rengar existed. Old rengar actually had below 50% win rate, but wait according to you wasn't he unfair? So shouldn't of he had an extremely high win rate? Or wait no it couldn't be that if you did the proper counter play he was pretty much completely shut down.

Second, so if the "!" was the only issue why couldn't we just buff the warning range? This would give people time to prepare and group or fall back. That's the only limitation new rengar has to old is he has a long range warning area past that he is better at everything old rengar did, so why couldn't we just change old Rengar's ult?

Lauchmelder3 votes

This whole post is EXACTLY what I said. The only thing he needed was a bigger radius to his "!" mark.

You repeated my statement in an angry, aggressive and longer fashion.

Leo10242 votes

he's actuallly really fun wtf are you talking about

48983507DEL15 votes

He doesn't fit his concept very well. I'm sure some people may like the new zoning ult and oversimplified combo, but anyone who's played the old Rengar knows how much better it felt to actually hunt down targets.

48983507DEL11 votes

...Except Dekar oddly enough.

Sans Hama1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Prom Queen Annie,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HHoeWq6b,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-02-22T03:40:31.993+0000)

He doesn't fit his concept very well. I'm sure some people may like the new zoning ult and oversimplified combo, but anyone who's played the old Rengar knows how much better it felt to actually hunt down targets.

as an adc main im pretty fucking happy because now he has some weakness and cant just slap the fucking combo out of nowhere and i would die

flomper1 votes

{quoted}

he's actuallly really fun wtf are you talking about

Did you like just start league a week ago or ever even played old rengar? Or are you that guy who one tricked Garen for 2 years and finally came out of your bubble when rengar was easy enough for you to finally understand?

Petite Groseille1 votes

Well, I have 800k on Rengar and I do agree with him, I loved old Rengo, and I love this one too, the fun fact is that the big Rengar players aren't complaining about him (Dekar, I3imbi..) guess why ? Because they love the champ, not the one shot shiet. You just don't wanna understand that Rengar isn't an assassin anymore, he is an offtank/bruiser, assassin Rengo is over, turn the page, there won't be any revert because riot doesn't give a fck about what you all think guys, learn to like the new Rengar or start to play an other champ,** your complaining aren't interesting anyone except yourself.**

Leo10242 votes

{quoted}

Did you like just start league a week ago or ever even played old rengar? Or are you that guy who one tricked Garen for 2 years and finally came out of your bubble when rengar was easy enough for you to finally understand?

you're actually pathetic for getting so pissed over someone liking a champion lmao

flomper2 votes

Pfffff as a rengar main I've learned the priority of my enjoyment is ranked pretty low in comparison to just about everyone else who plays this game

SaltyKracka2 votes

Rengar has literally never been fun.

In any iteration.

Pierce The Veal2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Prom Queen Annie,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HHoeWq6b,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-02-22T02:40:06.208+0000)

I don't care if he's statistically fine or above average. He's not a fun champion.

He's not fun to play as, and especially not fun to play against. His kit is boring and extremely linear, with way too many flaws to ever be balanced.

His Q doesn't mix well with the rest of his kit. It's awkward to use and feels very inconsistent. On top of that, it lacks the synergy that the old Q had as a mix with his combo, making it far less satisfying to use.

His W is a mistake. It's not something you give an assassin. Ever. Both the heal and the CC removal is something better suited for a bruiser, hence why people started building him that way. In addition, it doesn't make sense to have this on a combo-heavy character. He HAS to blow this ability as soon as he jumps in or he can't get 5 stacks. There's almost no situation where saving it for later in the fight would make more sense than just using it immediately, since he's pretty much useless after he's used his ultimate. Speaking of which...

His R does the exact opposite of what it was conceived to do. Its original purpose was to stealthily take out a target who was isolated. This reworked form immediately alerts anyone halfway across the map of his presence, completely defeating the purpose of picking targets off. You can never use it unless you plan on team fighting, since the target has more than enough time to run and get help before you can reach them.

Also, the Crit he gets is stupid. Riot said he shouldn't be able to 1 shot people anymore, yet they add this gimmicky critical strike which can nearly execute a target outright. It's far easier to do than performing a full combo with old Rengar.

His kit can't decide whether it wants to be a bruiser or an assassin. His W and Ult would lead me to believe he's a bruiser, but his Bonus AD ratios make it seem like he's an assassin. I can almost guarantee Riot didn't know either. His whole kit is a mess, and shouldn't exist in this current state.

Hopefully he'll get some sort of changes, but I'm pretty confident Riot believes Rengar's initial existence was a mistake and wish to bury him.

Exactly what akali mains are feeling at the moment.

Her delayed kit yells bruiser. Scalings yell assassin. She's better early game now, falls off late game (no longer late game assassin yayyyy). Her lane burst and healing is obnoxious, feels clunky to use and unpredictable to play against. Previously she was consistent, now she's just stupid. Not any funner to play against (in fact more annoying), but definitely less satisfying to play.

Blakiepug2 votes

I feel the same way, I liked him a lot more before his rework.

RizHippoKhan2 votes

honestly i never criticized riot that much,i just kept on playing this game quietly. But from this rework i feel like riot wants us to think they are arrogant, smug-ass,retarded children who dont know what they want and act like they know what we want and when they fuck up they dont want to own up immediately (not to mention clear bias,i loved riot but i started to kind of feel disgusted by them after they said "sejuani had her time in the spotlight" and i dont even own sejuani! xD) although they do make some good thing every once in a while like ww rework (except for the q and r clunkiness) and ,personally,i liked the kat & lb rework so gotta give them props for that,all they need to do is revert some parts of rengo's kit.

Gelmous2 votes

he's fun to play against as an adc main rengar players are fool they think they can one shot you when in reality i one shot them, and the best part is ? THEY come to you

Eunson1 votes

Bring back AP Rengar

5c2m1GyFKX1 votes

Ap works as good as before... same scaling u can still double w just ad got unfun

Eunson1 votes

Lol what.

W damage use to be huge with a 100% ap scaling ratio with DFG. You clearly never played AP Rango on release.

Ultimate Deadpoo1 votes

And I thought I'd be able to go through the boards today without seeing someone complain about the new Rengar....sigh.

flomper1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ultimate Deadpoo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HHoeWq6b,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2017-02-22T19:43:55.917+0000)

And I thought I'd be able to go through the boards today without seeing someone complain about the new Rengar....sigh.

Well something needs to be done about it! They can't just strip a Champions identity, make him unfun, change his primary and intended role, and make him busted and then just say "well atleast we tried" and then just proceed to nerf him because they can't balance him. We saw this happen with mord and history is just repeating itself with rengar.

Elisheva3 votes

If he weren't garbage people wouldn't complain as much.

RottedApples1 votes

quinn hasn't been fun since before her rework. FeelsBadMan

WoonStruck1 votes

Strange, because the only realistic difference is your Q isn't an auto reset now, its 2 hits with a dash.

Doozku1 votes

Have you ever played him before? It just isn't satisfying or fun to use, it's just clunky. Not to mention old Q with the old ferocity system took much more skill to use than new Q.

WoonStruck1 votes

I'm just saying its strange how different he feels even though the largest change to his gameplay feel was his Q.

You'd think a more interactive ability, especially one with movement, would improve how he feels, but it did the opposite.

Doozku3 votes

I mean the ability just feels slow, weird, and doesn't make any sense from a thematic sense at all, even though the point of many of these reworks was to increase thematic identities of champions. If you look at it like that, it makes perfect sense why this ability failed.

48983507DEL11 votes

Well you're obviously not a Rengar player. Everything about him feels different.

His Q doesn't have any synergy with his combo.

His W should theoretically be saved until after he jumps in, but practically is used just for damage.

His E still has a mid-air cast time for some reason, even though it can't be used for an insta-snare anymore.

His ultimate has been changed in every aspect. Everyone knows your ulting way before you're close to them, you only get rewarded for jumping on the closest target, you don't get 5 ferocity stacks over a few seconds, you can be seen when right next to enemies, and you have a gimmicky critical strike as your main source of damage.

So no, everything is realistically different.

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