Can we please get rid of Quinn top?

48983507DEL1·Mar 18, 2016·86 votes·7,295 views

Can we all agree that playing against a ranged top laner with buffed auto-attack markers, a vision-reducer, and an ability that pushes her away from her enemy is cancerous to deal with as a melee champion? This is almost Teemo level of obnoxious to deal with.

Yea, she has ways to deal with her, but honestly a good Quinn can wreck lane and roam around the map for easy kills with little penalties. It's super toxic to play against, especially considering how great her stats are at the moment.

150 Comments

ModWulf HelhammerMar 18, 201635 votes

So you're saying a person who took the time to learn a champion and all the matchups shouldn't be rewarded when they use this knowledge to play well?

Next you'll be telling me it's a bad thing when a Xerath player gets good at predicting people movements for skillshots

Also the funny thing is that the old Quinn crushed top laners even more! So maybe just play better instead of coming on here and complaining every time a main beats you with their champion? (And statistically speaking, playing against a Quinn, you are usually going against a main)

AlwaysByMySideMar 18, 201618 votes

{quoted}

(And statistically speaking, playing against a Quinn, you are usually going against a main)

http://champion.gg/champion/Quinn/Top

Playerbase average games played: 30.95, which is 41st out of 56 as far as top laners are concerned, so the average Quinn player isn't very experienced with the champ compared to most top laners.

On playerbase experience distribution, the largest sample is by far players with 1-5 games. They account for 38.78% of her players.

The smallest sample? Players with 125+ games, who make up 4.75% of Quinn players.

This stuff is easy to look up. What is your basis for the claim that most Quinn top players are Quinn mains?

Tobias BracknerMar 18, 20161 votes

"What is your basis for the claim that most Quinn top players are Quinn mains?" Where did he claim this?

AlwaysByMySideMar 18, 20167 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tobias Brackner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ec3I78Pw,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2016-03-18T17:08:54.713+0000)

"What is your basis for the claim that most Quinn top players are Quinn mains?" Where did he claim this?

You might want to try reading the post I so charitably quoted for you in my crushing rebuttal that will never get a response from the Quinn main. This isn't the first time they tried to pretend that Quinn's playerbase is more experienced than it really is, nor is it the first time I crushed that claim, so I'm led to believe that they are intentionally lying to preserve their champion's power level.

SaixosMar 18, 20163 votes

Quinn's playerbase used to be the most experienced, used to be the #1 in games played on champion.gg in top with about 170+ or so iirc. That's why he may be mistaken, since her changes a ton of FOTM players have picked her up :C

ModWulf HelhammerMar 18, 20161 votes

Thank you for addressing that.

To add on it, the FoTM players are not the ones consistently beating you with Quinn -- they are the ones who don't know what they are doing, pick Quinn because they think she's an "easy win" or whatever, only to realize that they drastically underestimated playing her and likely lose the game

AlwaysByMySideMar 19, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Thank you for addressing that.

To add on it, the FoTM players are not the ones consistently beating you with Quinn -- they are the ones who don't know what they are doing, pick Quinn because they think she's an "easy win" or whatever, only to realize that they drastically underestimated playing her and likely lose the game

http://champion.gg/champion/Quinn/Top

Fourth highest win rate top, despite most of her players being FOTM players.

YumaS2AstralMar 18, 20162 votes

{quoted}

So you're saying a person who took the time to learn a champion and all the matchups shouldn't be rewarded when they use this knowledge to play well?

Next you'll be telling me it's a bad thing when a Xerath player gets good at predicting people movements for skillshots

Also the funny thing is that the old Quinn crushed top laners even more! So maybe just play better instead of coming on here and complaining every time a main beats you with their champion? (And statistically speaking, playing against a Quinn, you are usually going against a main)

Just curious, how old Quinn used to crush top laners even more?

Valor BotMar 18, 20164 votes

Her passive's base damage was insane, for one. Q was an AA-nullifying blind in an AoE, which neutered Champs like Riven and Renekton during all-ins. R gave her instant, massive movement speed and attack speed bonuses, along with an AoE execute, perfect for tower-diving or ganking other lanes with ease.

AckelopeMar 18, 20165 votes

I think a few people are missing the point on why exactly they feel Quinn is wrecking their games. Sure, she's beating the melee champions in top lane like she's supposed to, which is more or less alright by me. The problem I see most often and I would be willing to bet people are actually running into is that she can snowball so fucking hard because of her ult, and translate her lead into a crazy amount of map presence and make enemy pushes just about impossible when she's strong. I don't think her strength in lane is the issue, it's her presence across the map that she has while being very strong in lane.

WimbledofyMar 18, 20167 votes

The problem is that she just counters most top laners. You don't really have much of an option to "play better" like you said. I'm not saying she should just be nerfed/removed, I'm just saying that it's not necessarily that a player is bad because they can't win against a quinn. During laning phase she can auto you for free and unless you have 2 gap closers you can't really engage on her.

ShonjlMar 18, 201610 votes

What people don't really get is you aren't suppose to. She is literally the same deal as Teemo, you aren't meant to fight him in laning phase/early game. He will shit on most champs. Wait a bit into the game when you get an item that counters them and suddenly they are not only duelable, but actually killable. I lost count of how many times I dread the first 10 minutes against a Teemo, only to get SV and literally kill him for the rest of the game with ease. Quinn is no different.

Its the same deal with Pantheon, you can't really fight him early game, but unlike those other 2, you just can't fight him at all til late game. At least Quinn and Teemo I can kill in lane after an item or 2. Panth you basically have to wait til 20 minutes when he falls off to kill him.

WimbledofyMar 18, 20162 votes

I find pantheon easier though. He has more counters than teemo and quinn and you can duel him before he gets level 3/4. Before level 3 he either won't have his stun or won't have his E/crit. At level 3 if he doesn't put his 3rd point in Q spamming his q becomes very mana inefficient since it is so weak.

With quinn though her E basically makes it so if you want to go in on her you would have to wait for her to use E offensively, but if she does that it's likely because you are low and can't retaliate anyways. But imo this ability can be used against quinn since it works only against one person. If you have jungler gank she can only slow one person and she has to be close to use.

Also idk why i typed the second part, i just felt like it. I felt like I was typing something important but then it like lost its meaning while typing.[slayer-jinx-unamused]

crippler38Mar 18, 20162 votes

then you realize pantheon is maxing his E and just all inning you constantly

[slayer-pantheon-rainbows]

the rainbows are your tears.

that being said I forgot teemo was a threat (I must be playing against bad teemos, that or I'm sion)

ShonjlMar 18, 20166 votes

This is basically what I say when people used to cry about Garen, old Garen was stronger than this Garen until lvl16 so people that cry about him just suck. Since old Garen killed you much faster and was way more durable, also had a lot more power in faster and longer silence Q, his W was free tank stats as well as %damage reduction.

People have it easy when they forget that older versions of the champ would shit on you much harder.

FastAsHeckMar 18, 20162 votes

dfg garen #neverforget

qetzelMar 18, 20165 votes

I think the item changes boosted Garen's power by quite a lot. Old Garen with old items would have been stronger than new Garen with old items. Old Garen with new items would have been stronger than new Garen with new items. Old Garen with old items would have been weaker than new Garen with new items.

TheVishualMar 18, 20162 votes

{quoted}

So you're saying a person who took the time to learn a champion and all the matchups shouldn't be rewarded when they use this knowledge to play well?

Next you'll be telling me it's a bad thing when a Xerath player gets good at predicting people movements for skillshots

Also the funny thing is that the old Quinn crushed top laners even more! So maybe just play better instead of coming on here and complaining every time a main beats you with their champion? (And statistically speaking, playing against a Quinn, you are usually going against a main)

old quinn definitely did not crush top laners more...

her new blind has no counterplay, her old blind did + her ult is way better now and itemization for her is really good

ModWulf HelhammerMar 18, 20168 votes

Please explain how the old blind had counterplay that the new one doesn't, when the old one didn't even have to hit you to blind you, whereas the new has to hit you specifically to apply nearsight.

You have not been playing long if you don't know how much people hated going against the old Quinn when she was popular.

TheVishualMar 18, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Please explain how the old blind had counterplay that the new one doesn't, when the old one didn't even have to hit you to blind you, whereas the new has to hit you specifically to apply nearsight.

You have not been playing long if you don't know how much people hated going against the old Quinn when she was popular.

blind is reduced by tenacity or you can QSS it, her new blind you can't do anything because you cant see anything period

think of it as a reverse vayne ult with 11 sec CD at rank 1, only she can hit you and you can't hit her

ModWulf HelhammerMar 18, 20165 votes

The new blind is QSSable, and is not reduced by merc treads because it isn't a CC (also, you are still able to do anything with the debuff on you)

TheVishualMar 18, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The new blind is QSSable, and is not reduced by merc treads because it isn't a CC (also, you are still able to do anything with the debuff on you)

that is why it is broken, it is ok if you play quinn w/e

ModWulf HelhammerMar 18, 20165 votes

If it doesn't prevent you from doing anything as a melee, and the biggest complaint about Quinn is that she counters melees really well: what the hell is your problem with it.

Only Play DariusMar 18, 20161 votes

Well no one played Quinn before rework

Ariel the CruelMar 18, 20166 votes

Myth.

SoundChaosDebugMar 18, 201626 votes

The flying speed makes her so annoying, you ping mia and by the time people notice she's in mid lane. Walk to mid lane to help and she's already back in top pushing tower

ScriptBrandMar 18, 201613 votes

the only annoying thing about quinn is her ability to move so quickly and roam. if you take that away, she's almost exactly the same as a vayne top. vayne has enhanced autos, repositioning, self peel, high movespeed with ult.

INoble KnightIMar 18, 20169 votes

Not the same as Vayne because Quinn doesn't have Max health % true damage that bypasses armor

ShrîkeMar 18, 201612 votes

Quinn has always been a strong top laner. Why the QQ now? She actually stomped harder before her rework, harriers did more damage and her blind was better vs AA reliant champions. Her ult was a good instant disengage tool when you were getting ganked. It's literally a death sentence now to try and use it as an escape.

Valor BotMar 18, 20163 votes

Plus, she could tower dive all day long with that ultimate. I think the reason so many people are complaining about her is that she's just so much more common now that they are actually beginning to see how annoying she can be. I guess the mobility on steroids and her new Q have to do with it too, but her other strengths that people cite as annoying have always been the tools of Quinn's arsenal.

DryditchMar 18, 20163 votes

Being blinded is actually less of a problem than being nearsighted. With a blind, you don't lose vision of your map or your lane; your attacks just miss. It's pretty bullshit to not be able to aim a skillshot or land a targeted ability because she repositions with her E while you're nearsighted and you can't know where she is. If I drop a ward or have minions around, it should reveal the full area my team has. Screw my own vision; I'm annoyed I lose ward value and the vision from minions with functional eyes.

FlitcheeMar 18, 20162 votes

This 100000000x With old quinn, you could just play anyone non AA reliant person, and still be fine, now she hits q and you take a bunch of damage and you can't even see where from to throw abilities back.

DropFillMar 18, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Quinn has always been a strong top laner. Why the QQ now? She actually stomped harder before her rework, harriers did more damage and her blind was better vs AA reliant champions. Her ult was a good instant disengage tool when you were getting ganked. It's literally a death sentence now to try and use it as an escape.

The itemization changes and her passive being way more efficient in terms of marking enemy champions makes her stronger. Also, several nerfs to some top laners and tank items make her way better.

ShonjlMar 18, 201610 votes

The issue is Quinn IS a top laner, she is only really good at top and jungle. Its clear she isn't an ADC. Even in her reworked state she isn't that great an ADC, doable but not really good.

She is annoying but really early rushing armor and she becomes a lot more tolerable. I often hate going against her until I rush my first full armor item then she falls off. My 3 top laners, Nasus, Garen and GP rush Iceborn Gauntlet or Deadmans and often after that they can actually kill her since they usually become too tanky for her to kill on her own anymore.

Basically the same deal with Teemo, rush a Spirit Visage and you can shit on him for the rest of the game. Even Garen which Teemo is his hardest counter I eat Teemo with Garen once I get Spirit Visage.

Besides, looking at Champ.GG she isn't even that insane. 50-54% isn't that extreme, thats fairly balanced all things considered. She isn't even that high a playrate, highest I saw was like 7%? Thats fairly low. If she was 50-55% and like 20% then yeah she would be broken.

FalconPawwwwnchMar 18, 20169 votes

Yea Quinn is one of the most obnoxious champs to lane against

The fact that her playerbase is so delusional to this blows my mind

Serika ZeroMar 18, 20166 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zethera Densetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ec3I78Pw,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-03-18T06:52:27.258+0000)

Can we all agree that playing against a ranged top laner with buffed auto-attack markers, a vision-reducer, and an ability that pushes her away from her enemy is cancerous to deal with as a melee champion? This is almost Teemo level of obnoxious to deal with.

Yea, she has ways to deal with her, but honestly a good Quinn can wreck lane and roam around the map for easy kills with little penalties. It's super toxic to play against, especially considering how great her stats are at the moment.

play tanks like maokai, rammus, malphite. You just got to play safe until 6, then you rape her. play fighters like jax and jax and did I mention jax? most of quinns damage comes from auto attacks, play safe till you get phage and then you can rape her play graves, why graves? because he has a shotgun, what kind of woman you know can resist a shotgun.

crippler38Mar 18, 20166 votes

shotguns confirmed best counter for birds

Mai Waifu IreliaMar 18, 20162 votes

You know how tilting it is playing jax into quinn? She can E your Q midair and you just stand there looking like a dumbass. Irelia into quinn is much better.

Athenes LuluMar 18, 20165 votes

Quinn, surprisingly, does "fall off".

You know those kind of stupid and snowbally lane bullies who eventually gets even with your ADCs later? That's Quinn. She also has almost everything anyone would want in the current meta, especially where burst and splitpushing are favored. "Ranged Tryndamere" would be a rather accurate description.

At least you can destroy Quinn into nothingness, unlike Lulu top/mid...

M0RDEKA1SERMar 18, 20165 votes

No no no, keep it. I love Quinn free week. I get to pub stomp her in normals so that hopefully whoever's playing her thinks she's garbage and we will have that many less Quinn mains.

iodyMar 18, 20164 votes

Play yasuo!

Only Play DariusMar 18, 201626 votes

To defeat cancer,

You must become cancer.

NautodayMar 18, 20164 votes

There are so many counters to Quinn it's ridiculous. I saw a Quinn go against an Irelia the other day, and the Quinn literally couldn't do anything. Everytime she E'd Irelia would just dash to her over and over again. If she's not fed she's not too relevant.

RetillinMar 18, 20164 votes

Riot WANTS her top lane. They didn't balance her around duo bot. It was solo lane and jungle. So not only are they aware of her power top, they want her to be there. Riot desperately wants mages/ranged adc/tanks/ect to fill every lane. No more mages only mid. Or marksman only bot. It's how they want the game to move towards.

The QuinndredMar 18, 20164 votes

By the same logic of something being obnoxious so riot should remove it, half the champions in the game shouldn't be able to do what they do. It's obnoxious that Kog'maw can melt an entire team when he has items. Does that mean we should remove Kog'maw's damage? No, because there is counter play to him, like focusing him down and getting resistances. With Quinn, the counterplay is grouping with the team so she can't pick someone, warding so you can prepare for her to attack, and focusing her down so she can't deal her damage.

kaltenashesMar 19, 20164 votes

can we plz get rid of quinndred and bring back the good ol' Quinn And Valor?

she was fun to play with ='(

Valor BotMar 19, 20163 votes

Yes, please. Gameplay-wise, Quinn didn't just play as "The Falconer," she also played as "The Falcon"; it was a cool and fun dynamic and I think it would be great if it came back!