Would make towers harder to kill. Games less Snowbally. Tower dives more risky. Games more interactive.
Yea that last one there is the most important. Right now unless you auto win trades through burst you don’t even try and fight the enemy... if you do try you feed.
Honestly raising damage just makes players play even more passive because no one wants to die once and lose the game.
We need to lower damage so that we can have actual fighting and gameplay.
BrightWîngs35 votesyes yes yes annnnd yes will they do it? no no no annnnnnd no.
Rαy23 votesI really do not get how Riot does not see they could slow down the decline of their game massively by just reverting the rune system and champion base stats. It seems like the Chinese internet café scene is too important, so they force twenty minute oneshot fiestas down our throat.
I just want my favorite game back, but I guess that does not happen.
GigglesO7 votesI really do not get how Riot does not see they could slow down the decline of their game massively by just reverting the rune system and champion base stats. It seems like the Chinese internet café scene is too important, so they force twenty minute oneshot fiestas down our throat.
I just want my favorite game back, but I guess that does not happen.
I’m a little curious, and would love to see some actual data on this...
Dokueki Kenshin9 votesWhat would make his point even more compelling would be if he didn’t copy/paste that exact comment from another thread. I mean, they aren’t out of context, but it puts the veracity of the statement into question.
That being said, I’d be very curious to see some data on this as well. It would make sense since it seems that the Chinese/Korean scene don’t have as many players that play at home and instead rely on Internet cafes.
GigglesO4 votes[{quoted}](name=Dokueki Kenshin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HERLwilv,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-11-23T22:18:08.682+0000)
What would make his point even more compelling would be if he didn’t copy/paste that exact comment from another thread. I mean, they aren’t out of context, but it puts the veracity of the statement into question.
That being said, I’d be very curious to see some data on this as well. It would make sense since it seems that the Chinese/Korean scene don’t have as many players that play at home and instead rely on Internet cafes.
I want to know if they really enjoy two shitty games over one really good game...
Or
Maybe they enjoy the one shot meta?
It’s hard to tell what actually drives other regions. You can tell that NA likes defense metas where it just takes longer but not too long. Hard to kill but not unkillable...
TheWizardM5 votesIt’s hard to tell what actually drives other regions. You can tell that NA likes defense metas where it just takes longer but not too long. Hard to kill but not unkillable...
Same in EUW
Elewd2 votesthey added the runes everyone took as an option, try taking the defense ones and not the damage ones and you'll be surprised how much less damage people do to you in lane now.
Rαy3 votesthey added the runes everyone took as an option, try taking the defense ones and not the damage ones and you'll be surprised how much less damage people do to you in lane now.
Old runes gave 9 armor and 12 magic resist or 214 health at level 18 (almost double the hp).
Sure if you stack a resistance stat according to your lane opponent, it helps being bulkier in lane, which is good. Later on, you still get blown up though, because tower plating, shutdown gold, even drakes (why do drakes give gold again?) and the useless hp per lvl stat made sure even the most insignificant player of the game becomes able to burst you in an imstant.
SwiftKitten887 votesthe flaw in your argument is that your correct.. therefore there is no way it will ever be done by riot
BigSquirrell6 votesHonestly raising damage just makes players play even more passive because no one wants to die once and lose the game.
This part. This was why pro games were so long at the start of season 8 which made the games stupidly long and made Riot increase the snowballing. Teams were playing hellaciously safe and it was boring and it's going to happen again at this rate, and that's going to mess it up for us regular players again.
OneMustFall4 votesLowering Damage/ Reducing One Shots by GigglesO (NA)
Lowering Champion Damage by GigglesO (NA)
Riot I beg you by GigglesO (NA)
Damage feels higher... by GigglesO (NA)
Literally the same topic 4 times in two days. Basically spam the boards until one topic sticks and you get upvoted by people who know nothing about the game. It all makes sense now where these HOT garbage topics come from. The same damn people.
GigglesO6 votesLowering Damage/ Reducing One Shots by GigglesO (NA)
Lowering Champion Damage by GigglesO (NA)
Riot I beg you by GigglesO (NA)
Damage feels higher... by GigglesO (NA)
Literally the same topic 4 times in two days. Basically spam the boards until one topic sticks and you get upvoted by people who know nothing about the game. It all makes sense now where these HOT garbage topics come from. The same damn people.
Yes a diamond season 1 vet “knows nothing “. I was also #1 most played Morde world in 2017...
Glad I’m not top 1% player base and I haven’t experienced every change since I started season 1 including the healing meta, tank meta, black cleaver meta, almost every single champion as they were released, the aoe bug that made karthus and talon gods. The time they sped up xeraths ultimate because he got a new skin and timed the ultimate to the new skin instead of timing the new skin to the old animation. Every champions original and reworked design. I’ve been here longer than some of their designers and balance team members.
You don’t know me or how much milk I like on my cereal.
ApollyonBainer2 votesHow much mile do you like on your cereal?
And tbh you dont need to be a season 1 vet to know that dmg is just ridiculous right now. Its pretty gross and makes the game feel so terrible sometimes
GigglesO2 votesHow much mile do you like on your cereal?
Trick question! I like eggs toast with bacon, sometimes with waffles, and black coffee.
ApollyonBainer5 votesFeelsbad when your breakfast is more balanced than the game
GigglesO2 votesFeelsbad when your breakfast is more balanced than the game
[sg-miss-fortune]
Inb4 next post title.
ApollyonBainer7 votesI think I read someone said they wanted scarra to lead the balance team or something. That would be rad. Put the players in charge cuz they know what is good for the game
Pika Fox3 votesWelcome to the boards, where the wood players all think they know more than riot.
GigglesO4 votes[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HERLwilv,comment-id=00070002,timestamp=2018-11-24T17:13:00.141+0000)
Welcome to the boards, where the wood players all think they know more than riot.
You could ask my S1 friends that used to complain about Riots changes I heavily defended riot for a very long time. I liked the idea that riot knew what was best, after all they created such a great game.
I’ve watched them slowly fuck over this game for awhile now. Some of their changes are still nice/interesting/fun... but it just doesn’t feel that way anymore. I even had high hopes for riots “bring down the snowball S9 promises”
ModBianca Colt6 votesYou must have a lot of nerve calling other people wood, given you have only played ranked in Seasons 6, reached Silver and primarily play bot games. Now I'm starting to understand why the overwhelming majority of your comments get downvoted.
Pika Fox1 votesI played 10 ranked games with friends, half of which was with a master adc smurf to learn more about what an ADC expects of a support and get better at my role. I clearly do not play ranked, so even saying i was silver isnt really a statement, silver after 10-20 games means nothing.
Either way, if someone thinks they know more about balance than riot and wants to discredit them, theyre wood, and belong in there.
ModBianca Colt11 votesThen don't tell other people they're Wood or whatever. You're in no position to do that.
And since when do you have to work for Riot to know when something isn't right in the game?
GigglesO8 votes[{quoted}](name=KDA Umbra,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HERLwilv,comment-id=00070002000100000000,timestamp=2018-11-24T19:54:15.367+0000)
Then don't tell other people they're Wood or whatever. You're in no position to do that.
And since when do you have to work for Riot to know when something isn't right in the game?
What’s really interesting about his statements is that before the damage change in design values I was worse at the game (gold vs diamond) but I loved the game so much more even though I was shittier at the game.
I’d honestly probably fall back down towards gold if they make the changes that I want them to. Because while the game was more comfortable for me to play I wasn’t good at that style of gameplay.
So it’s not even a “benefits my rank” type post it’s a “I enjoy longer trades” post. I genuinely just enjoyed the game more in higher defense metas.
Pika Fox1 votesIll call people out when they deserve it. If someone thinks they can do better than riot, theyre deserving of being called wood.
ModBianca Colt10 votesThe fallacy you're presenting here is your belief that people at Riot Games have supernatural abilities which render them unable to make mistakes, be it regarding balance, lore, skins etc. Not everyone on Boards who complains is in low elo, and a lot of people know what they're saying and have a huge understanding of the game. So don't conflate the two.
At this point, I'm sincerely hoping you're just trolling everyone, because from what I've seen so far, you're not interested in having a reasoned debate. You are looking for holes instead of attempting to understand the arguments presented and you are seeing holes where there are none to be seen. You are listening with the intent to respond instead of listening with the intent to understand.
If: complain + if: not riot = Wood
That's as far as I'll go regarding you. I won't entertain you anymore.
Pika Fox1 votesSee, the problem is you think people are just complaining. Theyre not. Theyre straight up calling the balance team garbage and calling for their termination. These people are clearly wood scrubs who have no idea wtf theyre talking about, because they somehow think they have all the answers. Less than 1% of players make up the boards and reddit, and yet they think theyre in the majority. Its humorous and frustrating.
But no, continue to put words in my mouth and miss the point, literally using words i didnt even use.
ModBianca Colt9 votesLook, I'm not here to read between the lines. You said, and I quote:
If someone thinks they can do better than riot, theyre deserving of being called wood.
...and now you're selling another story:
See, the problem is you think people are just complaining. Theyre not. Theyre straight up calling the balance team garbage and calling for their termination. These people are clearly wood scrubs who have no idea wtf theyre talking about
How is this the same? Apples and oranges.
Lrrr Omicronian6 votes[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HERLwilv,comment-id=00070002000100000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-11-25T15:03:27.573+0000)
See, the problem is you think people are just complaining. Theyre not. Theyre straight up calling the balance team garbage and calling for their termination. These people are clearly wood scrubs who have no idea wtf theyre talking about, because they somehow think they have all the answers. Less than 1% of players make up the boards and reddit, and yet they think theyre in the majority. Its humorous and frustrating.
But no, continue to put words in my mouth and miss the point, literally using words i didnt even use.
It FEELS like, as I survey the boards, and compare with what was being said in previous months and years and pre-seasons, that more players, are more dissatisfied, than usual. Now.
I'm starting to hear more exasperation, from people who really enjoyed playing this game before.
Maybe there is no empiric way to determine if this is true or not. Actually, I suspect that it really doesn't matter, and that even if 1,000,000 players agreed with me, it would make no difference.
Socon2 votes"Waa waa give us old league back damage is too high!"
Yall must be talking about tank meta because my idea of old league is elixir of fortitude fuck fests seeing who got fb top lane, ap yi and katarina getting infinite resets until your whole team was dead, lb rengar khazix talon zed one shotting kids before you could even react from fog of war, and fed fighters like riven or vlad hitting you once for half your hp and healing everything back. Or how about people just maxing out their damage on their rune pages to just cheese you and snowball the rest of the game?
Like what are you people smoking? League has never been a balanced game, it is currently at its best except for champion balance which is to be expected in a preseason.
GigglesO8 votes"Waa waa give us old league back damage is too high!"
Yall must be talking about tank meta because my idea of old league is elixir of fortitude fuck fests seeing who got fb top lane, ap yi and katarina getting infinite resets until your whole team was dead, lb rengar khazix talon zed one shotting kids before you could even react from fog of war, and fed fighters like riven or vlad hitting you once for half your hp and healing everything back. Or how about people just maxing out their damage on their rune pages to just cheese you and snowball the rest of the game?
Like what are you people smoking? League has never been a balanced game, it is currently at its best except for champion balance which is to be expected in a preseason.
Individual champion issues is not a part of the whole issue. I just want Even Season7 worth of defense/ offense out of my runes...
I feel like new runes are kinda like dynamic queue... damage isn’t balanced enough, and most of the issues come from their new system of runes.
Socon2 votesThe rest of the champs don't matter when back then it was only the champs who one shotted anyone were picked. Runes and masteries were never meant to be a big part of league, it was only recently that Riot decided to make them more impactful and exciting which has spoiled everyone into wanting them. I'd much rather have no runes and masteries at all than being forced to pick a champion based on how well they can abuse a rune page. No one wants to go back to league of thunderlords or league of tanks.
GigglesO7 votesThe rest of the champs don't matter when back then it was only the champs who one shotted anyone were picked.
Atleast in S7 if I took 46 armor and 43 MR at level 18 I could still be durable late game.
Everyone killing this fast is worse IMO.
Socon2 votes"Atleast in S7 if I took 46 armor and 43 MR at level 18 I could still be durable late game." Durable isn't a word I'd describe those stats with. In fact late game a level 18 LB vs a level 18 Vayne with those defensive stats would get popped with just one combo. A mage can get away with those low stats because they get a lot of health from their ap items, effectively just becoming sponges.
The actual amount of time it takes to die hasn't really changed, a fed LB back then vs a fed LB now will still kill you in under 1 second. Its just that a fed LB now can actually close out a game when she gets a lead.
GigglesO8 votes"Atleast in S7 if I took 46 armor and 43 MR at level 18 I could still be durable late game." Durable isn't a word I'd describe those stats with. In fact late game a level 18 LB vs a level 18 Vayne with those defensive stats would get popped with just one combo. A mage can get away with those low stats because they get a lot of health from their ap items, effectively just becoming sponges.
The actual amount of time it takes to die hasn't really changed, a fed LB back then vs a fed LB now will still kill you in under 1 second. Its just that a fed LB now can actually close out a game when she gets a lead.
I could get that out of runes before any defense items.... and yes, I was durable.
Socon2 votesYes I know you get those stats before items, and yes I know you think you're durable.
You seem somewhat baffled that Im disagreeing with you. You're not being specific on what champions you're talking about so Im going to have to obviously assume logical champions you'd have those stats on or assume you're talking out of your ass. Because the only champions that should be sitting on that amount of mr/armour are champions with built-in survivability or mobility and range. Literally, any assassin would be able to one shot you given the chance, that is not 'durable'.
GigglesO8 votesYes I know you get those stats before items, and yes I know you think you're durable.
You seem somewhat baffled that Im disagreeing with you. You're not being specific on what champions you're talking about so Im going to have to obviously assume logical champions you'd have those stats on or assume you're talking out of your ass. Because the only champions that should be sitting on that amount of mr/armour are champions with built-in survivability or mobility and range. Literally, any assassin would be able to one shot you given the chance, that is not 'durable'.
They weren't though... thats why we have so many people complaining about the damage ever since the new runes came out... defense is lower. Since riot won't buff defense, we complain damage is higher. (because its relative)
Socon1 votesIdk man I've been playing Nautalus recently a lot this patch and I've noticed he's pretty much impossible to kill after sunfire tabi
GigglesO7 votesIdk man I've been playing Nautalus recently a lot this patch and I've noticed he's pretty much impossible to kill after sunfire tabi
Thats a tank creep issue on just tank champs, go try and build sunfire on any non-tanks and tell me you die any noticeably slower.
Socon1 votesNon tanks aren't meant to build tank items, they're meant to build defensive items lol
True Garen10 votesIndividual champion issues is not a part of the whole issue. I just want Even Season7 worth of defense/ offense out of my runes...
I feel like new runes are kinda like dynamic queue... damage isn’t balanced enough, and most of the issues come from their new system of runes.
Runes Reforged was a mistake.
Ratpie10 votes[{quoted}](name=True Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HERLwilv,comment-id=000a00000001,timestamp=2018-11-25T19:41:07.540+0000)
Runes Reforged was a mistake.
I cannot upvote this enough.
Pika Fox1 votesNo, it wouldnt. Low champion damage makes games less interactive, because interaction nets 0 rewards. While youre harassing me, youre giving me wave advantage and missing CS yourself. If you harassing me doesnt pay off, i win. Why would you ever interact in that meta?
Hell, even the claims that high damage makes pros play safer ends up being false. Low damage encourages it as it gives no rewards for aggression, now teams that take risks are rewarded appropriately more often than not.
GigglesO3 votes[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HERLwilv,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-11-24T17:06:20.427+0000)
No, it wouldnt. Low champion damage makes games less interactive, because interaction nets 0 rewards. While youre harassing me, youre giving me wave advantage and missing CS yourself. If you harassing me doesnt pay off, i win. Why would you ever interact in that meta?
Hell, even the claims that high damage makes pros play safer ends up being false. Low damage encourages it as it gives no rewards for aggression, now teams that take risks are rewarded appropriately more often than not.
I think you mistake Low and “Lower”
Lower means less than what we have now.
Low means almost nothing. Because low (close to none) damage is exactly like you explained a farming meta with 0 reason to interact.
Lower (than we have now) somewhere in the middle ground encourages interaction because poke sticks but you don’t 3/4 kill them by poking them once. Which encourages the guy that’s likely to lose to keep attempting trades instead of just having to recall/afk under tower.
We need to go back to the middle ground.
chipndip13 votesYou guys have been complaining about us having too much damage and discouraging interactivity FOR YEARS.
Meanwhile, NA and EU have both stated that the reason we finally overcame Korea at Worlds this year was because of aggressive, proactive play. All the changes up till now was to make the game less campy, which Koreans are blatantly the best at and have seemed unstoppable because we were constantly playing into that style of farming for the win.
Moving the meter backwards would just put us back under their foot again.
GigglesO5 votesYou guys have been complaining about us having too much damage and discouraging interactivity FOR YEARS.
Meanwhile, NA and EU have both stated that the reason we finally overcame Korea at Worlds this year was because of aggressive, proactive play. All the changes up till now was to make the game less campy, which Koreans are blatantly the best at and have seemed unstoppable because we were constantly playing into that style of farming for the win.
Moving the meter backwards would just put us back under their foot again.
Pros are not the same as the remaining player base.
Pika Fox1 votesThere is no "going back to the middle ground". We are AT the middle ground. Less than this and we go back to 0 interaction top lane soraka/janna bot lane afk snooze fest fiesta at baron GG 5 kill games.
GigglesO4 votes[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HERLwilv,comment-id=000900000001,timestamp=2018-11-24T17:44:12.448+0000)
There is no "going back to the middle ground". We are AT the middle ground. Less than this and we go back to 0 interaction top lane soraka/janna bot lane afk snooze fest fiesta at baron GG 5 kill games.
If you really think this is the middle ground I would hate to see your “high damage” where minions one shot champs.
Pika Fox1 votesI mean, melee minions late game currently do that. 100 DPS on a single minion holy.
But not the point. This is the mid point of damage. You cannot really go back because if the option to play passive is ever viable, it is automatically the best option. Defense is just that much better inherently.
GigglesO9 votes[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HERLwilv,comment-id=00090000000100000000,timestamp=2018-11-24T18:01:02.556+0000)
I mean, melee minions late game currently do that. 100 DPS on a single minion holy.
But not the point. This is the mid point of damage. You cannot really go back because if the option to play passive is ever viable, it is automatically the best option. Defense is just that much better inherently.
Defense already doesn’t feel valuable as single item pickups though. Unless it’s GA banshees zhonays or stereks it just doesn’t feel like the item has value.
I’m not also trying to say we need to radically lower damage into a tank meta. I think 5-10 second fights are just healthier for the game. I don’t ever want to see less than 3 second deaths on my death sheet especially in a 1v1.
I do understand the concern of too low of damage I lived the die revive rejoin team fight meta and the walk back to tower ask 10 seconds go back to farming meta...
I’d personally like to blame a combination of upfront burst poke and executes as the feels bad damage. (And conqueror but that’s just because it’s a statcheck rune.)
ZT Xperimentor3 votes"Low champion damage makes games less interactive" Hold up right there; how does that work, when it would require more effort to get the same things done?