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The REAL problem with ELO/MMR/Dynamic Queue

Gabelous·4/15/2016, 7:59:54 AM·4 votes·1,209 views

TL:DR

  • Doing anything other than solo screws your MMR.
  • System actively punishes you for using dynamic queue system, regardless of where you are and who you're help is.

The REAL reason dynamic queue is fair is because it secretly PUNISHES you for not going solo. So let's consider the ELO system, the system used today by nearly all competitive games to establish player skill. Now to be fair the system was originally created for CHESS players, so its accuracy is only really for games where it is one player against other player. Generally if you win as much as you lose (50% win-rate) the system judges you "where you should be". And logically if you lose more your ranking drops, but if you win more your ranking goes up. Unfortunately this doesn't work with Rito. And now my example...

I was Bronze 5, and have a coworker who was Bronze 4. We duo'd a lot and had a 7-win streak. Also when I wasn't duo'ing with him I was duo'ing with another bronze 5. So how's that data come out?

Overall Winrate : 48% Winrate last 20 games : 75%

Now under the normal ELO system this would mean I would be "placed higher" since while my winrate is 48% my past history shows "improvement". Normally you gain/lost 15LP or so for "evenly matched games". My entire experience in bronze 4 so far? A win nets me only 10 - 12 LP, while a loss loses me 22 - 24 LP. My present example I was at 95LP, and after losing Bronze 3 series earlier I would be granted another win. When this happened in Bronze 4 promos I only lost 12 LP, down to 88LP so one more win would put me back in series. When I lost my Bronze 3 promo? I lost 33LP... Now some claims the system "shouldn't" dock you more than 25 LP for a lost series, and yet here I was tanked even more. So that's another indication the system is borked. So let's see my present play.

95LP -> 64LP - It was a heavy bruiser/heavy CC team comp with an ADC top. We were gonna lose that anyway. Their compe forgave a lot more mistakes in teamfights than ours did.

64LP -> 42LP - Again a loss, we could have won that but some "try hards" felt it better to split-push and be a hero than be there for teamfights. So we kept losing teamfights and ground while that try-hard didn't make any progress.

42LP -> 55LP - A win, and almost threw it because the carry wanted to farm nearly the entire time. Fortunately Jax jungle and Tynrd top combined with my Karma shields was enough.

So I lose 23LP, lost another another 22LP and only gained 13LP on a win. Despite a recent 70% winrate and a 48% winrate the system claims I'm "above my ranking". Even though I'm not boosted and duo'd with other Bronze who weren't more than one division above me the system still labels me a Bronze Five and is actively trying to pull me down with less LP wins and more LP losses. And if you think THIS is bad, then think about all the "boosters" who are getting help a tier higher than them, much less a division.

So technically the system doesn't cater to boosters. Anyone who boosts will later be dependent on their booster to keep their place, or they get lucky in solo and hope their W/L ratio can keep them afloat. It's a "smoke and mirrors" system, while they encourage you to have friends and queue dynamically the system will punish you if you leave your friends as well.

14 Comments

B00B004/15/2016, 9:54:46 AM2 votes

tldr? i mean i have read it but all i read was the point loss and gain not the actual reason as to why you feel this screws you over, have i missed something or glossed over something?

i will check lolking when the maintenance is over but i am assuming your MMR is really low and this is what determines how much you win/lose and who you are matched with.

CoolMike1274/15/2016, 8:09:15 AM1 votes

Obviously, when you play a lot together in ranked (or just in general), you grow dependability and know the strengths and weaknesses of them. You should also be performing better because of the extra communication and synergy you posses. When you play on your own, you will notice the difference in gameplay from your friend(s) versus some stranger, and lose that extra communication and synergy you had when you were together.

Realistically, it is easier to play with friends, but if you are adaptive and skilled enough, you should be able to win games on your own, without them.

The REAL problem with Dynamic Queue is the fact that the system calculation of mmr is averaged out of all members in the premade and paired into a game with the enemy being around the same mmr average.

Dynamic Queue atm is practically Elo Boosting that is legal.

PDE5 Inhib4/15/2016, 9:57:00 AM1 votes

I think your LP gains/losses are determined by your MMR. Your MMR is viewed as shit since you lost so much. It's the system's way of keeping baddies from climbing if they happen to go on a lucky streak.

Foxstep4/15/2016, 11:48:14 AM1 votes

dude you got a low winrate, this is basically the only reason why you lose more than you gain.

LiveYiOrDieHard4/15/2016, 2:54:13 PM1 votes

Uhh no, your MMR just sucks, that's why you lose more than you gain. Winrate means nothing by itself. What matters is who those wins are against.