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ELO/MMR/LP System Reality

Gabelous·4/18/2016, 2:41:41 PM·6 votes·1,817 views

So I mulled over my games the past week. After duo'ing with a Bronze 3 coworker and had a series of wins I got to Bronze 4, 5LP from series. And then it was a roller coaster of wins and losses, but I would lose 22 - 25 LP a loss and 12 - 15LP a win. Given the "average rate" was 10 - 15 either way this meant the system felt my MMR was lower for my place, and was attempting to "compensate" by pulling me down. I was well aware of this, but at the time my current winrate was 48% and last 20 game winrate was 75%. Statistically it shouldn't be, and yet it is. But where is the cause? Some argue you need to have played X number of games to get a good "baseline" but while I believe that a bit the numbers combined with what the system was doing didn't add up.

So I was with another friend comparing notes about recent solo-queue games, using OP.GGs website to look at stats and I looked at the tier graph. It said I only played seven ranked games in seven days. I of course called bull, I KNOW I played more than that. I counted up the match history and in that time I played over 30 games. So why is it saying I only played 7 games when I played so much more? Then I spotted the pattern.

It was not counting my duo-queue games, only my solo-queue games.

Now you can argue of course that ELO/MMR is independent of the LP system and in some cases it is. But the LP system, as shown by my progress, actively uses the ELO/MMR system to determines how much LP you gain/lose. So that is the reality of the system, but here's a point... If the ELO/MMR system only counts solo-queue games then that is an active deterrant to boosters right?

The problem is the primary intent of boosters are to get to gold for that end-of-season skin. And since it seems there is no tier/division decay unless you are in diamond it keeps boosters incentivized. Boost to gold 5, and play nothing but normals rest of the season. Collect your skin, and then you have a "past season" standing to base next season's placements on. A quick solution to S6s "hard reset" standing which caused a lot of rage when previously boosted people were put back "where they belong" by the system.

But this stands to reason, Rito's system is broken and certainly not promoting fair and competitive play. Your system has bugs that need ironing out, we get it. But this system has been in place for how many seasons? And it seems to have gone ultimately unchanged. So stop trying to make dynamic queue "more viable" and actually fix what it REALLY broken. Then maybe the fixes on the dynamic queue will actually be easier.

7 Comments

Br4ndon4/18/2016, 4:07:38 PM2 votes

Last season i maintained a 55% winrate over and a 60% winrate on soraka over 400~ (500~ overall) games and i was gaining 12-18 a win and losing 25~ a lost. Its extremely demoralizing knowing that it will take 3 wins to make up for a lost. It made losing so stressful. I was tilt city last season whenever it even seemed like i was going to lose because how punishing the LP lost were for no reason. At one point i was in my series to diamond but lost it. I maintained my positive winrate still but was demoted all the way to plat 4 because i either had to maintain a 66% winrate or i get demoted.

There really needs to be a hard cap for gains and lost. Maybe something along the lines of you can only lose between 10LP and 20LP. With gains as little as 15LP or as high as 25LP. That means there is still a possibility to gain less than you lose but not so harsh that it makes winning trivial and losing devastating.

SrbLud4/18/2016, 2:45:00 PM1 votes

This should go red...Lets hear a rioters opinion on this...

Live2LetDie4/18/2016, 2:53:10 PM1 votes

Simple. Your winrate was already negative, below 50%, before duo which means you were suppose to already be lower than where you were, you know this. You won some games against higher Elos, while duo, but that doesn't change the fact you tanked your mmr to a point where the system really wanted to drag you down. It's like a school grade, keep it up by not losing but the second you get it down to an F it's extremely hard to get it back. That's what this is. You tanked your mmr now you have to work to balance it out

GenghisEmo4/18/2016, 2:58:16 PM1 votes

It is WEIRD. i know for a while i was getting 25 and 30 LP for wins. Fought hard as i could.

Loss would take 10 or 15 LP for a while.

Only to still lose a lot XD.

Seems, Elo Hell is real.

And getting S or A grade on popular champs even when i lost.

So i gave up Ranked. AFKs the main reason lately i lose. Legit, close to win. We get AFK, allies tilt and go play ARAM on SR. When we could have played smart and gotten objectives.

Thrëat4/18/2016, 2:58:19 PM1 votes

Use http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=gabelous to get an idea of where you are.

" Your MMR is quite a bit lower than average. 880 MMR A baseline MMR has been changed by the latest Riot patch. (2016/2/20) The Average MMR for this league is 943. "

In any division 5 it is really hard to tell where your MMR is actually at, especially in bronze 5. Use that site and check who you are matched against, once you are matched with all Bronze 4+ then you will start to gain mmore than you lose. When you are being placed with 80% or more bronze 5 in a gamme, then your MMR is still tanked and you need more wins to fix it.

The thing about Bronze 5 is there is no floor. You can be bronze 5 with 900 MMR or bronze 5 with 100 MMR. When you hit Bronze 5 you have to just keep winning until you are out of it, then climbing will eventually start to feel possible again. By bronze 3 your LP gains/losses should seem more fair.

Dukues4/18/2016, 9:05:31 PM1 votes

Good post.