Riot leave Gangplank Alone!

Dread Nacht·Aug 24, 2015·1 votes·1,710 views

First you guys come up with an awesome backstory for Gangplank, then you kill him for a week, then a few days later riot kills him again for another week due to a bug, and now you're planning on killing him again through weakening his most influential part of his kit. At this rate you're going to have to allow gangplank to stack dead man's plate because you're loping off his other arm.

Of all the reworked champions, Gangplank is arguably going to be the worst one of them all in this inevitable bruiser/assassin meta, especially when mordekaiser's winrate has been climbing once everyone started to understand how to play him in this new meta (hope your other lanes win so you can catch up via becoming a dragon-bot and then 1-shot the carries when your gold advantage is high enough through securing objectives).

The only champions Gangplank's barrels pose a threat to are also the champions who have the easiest time avoiding it via destroying the barrel or using one of 20-30 league of mobility abilities. Ever try to set up some barrels against their adc/duelist type of champion? By the time your parley is in mid flight the barrel is destroyed, effectively wasting two abilities at once. Want to try saving cooldowns by meleeing the barrel? Prepare to get obliterated because Gangplank isn't tanky enough baseline to make any use of any armor items (especially after their nerfs).

After these nerfs what is Gangplank left with? Barrels that are only ever useful against adcs who can hit them faster than you can, so it's become a high risk-high reward to a high risk-medium(low) reward mechanic (similar to khazix's state, where he's only worthwhile to play when specific and unlikely situations come up). So we're going to have to go back to pre-rework Gangplank gameplay-wise because our E is going to be not worth using in all but the rarest of occasions.

Not to mention the most dangerous part of an explosion is the concussive force of the shockwave, which goes right through heavy plating.

Gangplank isn't that popular compared to champions like Fiora/Darius/Skarner/Garen/etc who have all been reworked in some way that makes them superior to their former selves (darius's Q now has counterplay, but now he can pentakill the entire team if he manages to kill someone with his ult due to max damage as opposed to having to build it up) But yeah, let's nerf the only one who's remotely close to being balanced so everyone can become flashy LCS players.

Riot please reconsider, only enemy teams oblivious to game mechanics are even affected by his barrels now, you're just giving them more room to make mistakes.

EDIT: Fiora's rework which came out at around the same time hasn't seen nerfs of this magnitude despite being infinitely more useful/durable/dangerous than Gangplank.

EDIT: origen played Gankplank and he went 3/3/3 and their team lost, yet people say he's OP when a player who is arguably better than all of us struggle to keep a positive kda despite his "safe" early game

17 Comments

Irelia BotAug 24, 20154 votes

That barrel is way to good for zoning and the fact that it makes buildign armor agisnt him far less effective is a bit much.

I am seeing people maining GP and easily having a 65%+ win rate with him. He is safe early game, has a global ult, CC doesn't matter much against him unless it is chained. They are nerfign his barrel which is in fact his hardest zoning tool and it will still be a zoning tool after the nerf on the PBE.

Just be glad they are not taking my suggestion and adding a mana cost to it which would make it a more costly zoning tool to use.

Dread NachtAug 24, 20152 votes

Have you tried whittling the reworked champions health down by using parrrley alone? All you do is burn your mana with no lasting effects on the enemy, his whole kit virtually revolves around his barrels and by nerfing them you're effectively nerfing his overall damage output by 15-20%. Also, 65% winrate probably had very little to do with gangplank and moreso to do with the other lanes getting fed via his global ult assistance. It isn't even a true zoning tool since all it takes is an adc to focus it for a half a second and it becomes useless.

I'm going to substitute GP for karthus to show how your argument is a tad misplaced:

That (wall of pain) is way to good for zoning and the fact that it makes buildign armor(and MR) agisnt him far less effective is a bit much. I am seeing people maining Karthus and easily having a 65%+ win rate with him. He is safe early game, has a global ult, CC doesn't matter much against him unless it is chained (Flash+ E+ Zhonyas means enemy team is taking massive amounts of damage in a teamfight). They are nerfign his (wall of pain) which is in fact his hardest zoning tool and it will still be a zoning tool after the nerf on the PBE. Just be glad they are not taking my suggestion and adding a (larger) mana cost to it which would make it a more costly zoning tool to use. <

Wording it like you did can make any champ sound OP.

Dread NachtAug 24, 20151 votes

Maybe i'm not looking at it from your point of view because I have never been hit by his barrel, either because it's blatantly obvious when he sets it up or due to being able to destroy if faster than he can set it off. It's like people wanting Nidalee nerfed into oblivion because they can't dodge her spears (despite the missile speed, missile width, and damage being greatly reduced). So again I'm seeing this more as a catering to players who'd rather just be able to tank through easily avoided mechanics rather than go about avoiding/disabling them.

Instead of nerfing his E Riot should be buffing the gold given by destroying the barrels to 15-20g from 10g to promote smart plays and punish bad placements of barrels. But no, instead of trying to counter the barrel mechanic people would rather it be more forgiving instead.

TrebbiAug 24, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fyenax Arrowsong,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Gw8EqRcE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-08-24T02:23:58.455+0000)

Have you tried whittling the reworked champions health down by using parrrley alone? All you do is burn your mana with no lasting effects on the enemy, his whole kit virtually revolves around his barrels and by nerfing them you're effectively nerfing his overall damage output by 15-20%. Also, 65% winrate probably had very little to do with gangplank and moreso to do with the other lanes getting fed via his global ult assistance. It isn't even a true zoning tool since all it takes is an adc to focus it for a half a second and it becomes useless.

I'm going to substitute GP for karthus to show how your argument is a tad misplaced: Just be glad they are not taking my suggestion and adding a (larger) mana cost to it which would make it a more costly zoning tool to use. <

Wording it like you did can make any champ sound OP.

You should have used Irelia as example. Because Irelia bot only plays Irelia. He is also on a epic quest to try to make the barrels cost mana which is a ridicules suggestion and he wont stop until Gangplank is nerfed to the ground it seems.

Pretty DhiziAug 24, 20151 votes

15% loss of armor penetration won't change much to anything.

Don't be dramatic until you've tested it yourself. Tried it on PBE today, still chunks enemies like a motherfucker.

Dread NachtAug 24, 20151 votes

If it doesn't change much then why bother nerfing it?

Why don't we nerf riven's q damage by 15% due to its zoning capability as well as it non-reducible form of cc?

I'm sure you chunk all 5 enemies you managed to hit with it, but against any player with a brain you'll be lucky to blow up the barrel instead of giving them a consistent form of gold generation

Dread NachtAug 24, 20151 votes

This nerf only serves as a means for the enemy initiator to yet again ignore a zoning mechanic, and since juggernauts are the new meta, you're making Gp weaker than his already weak-state against tanky opponents.

Pretty DhiziAug 24, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fyenax Arrowsong,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Gw8EqRcE,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-08-24T03:02:41.703+0000)

If it doesn't change much then why bother nerfing it?

Why don't we nerf riven's q damage by 15% due to its zoning capability as well as it non-reducible form of cc?

I'm sure you chunk all 5 enemies you managed to hit with it, but against any player with a brain you'll be lucky to blow up the barrel instead of giving them a consistent form of gold generation

because 60% + 35% + 6% from masteries of armor penetration = 101%. His barrels if he acquired last Whisper do TRUE DAMAGE to those hit. So uhh...600-1k damage E's on a cooldown of 1 second? Hell no that's silly. That's why it got dropped to 45%. To fix the issue with people being able to cross 100% armor penetration thresholds.

Dread NachtAug 24, 20151 votes

When barrels can be destroyed faster than the time required to finish the firing animation of parley at nearly all points in the game, you have to go in and melee it for a chance at triggering it against a team that is aware of their surroundings. With the nerfs to tank items GP is going to get slaughtered if he ends up in the middle of the fray, as he has no means of hard CC to ensure his safety against the enemy carries.

We aren't talking about inevitably taking damage by messing up dodging a nidalee spear, we're talking about a mechanic that is 100% avoidable at all times by just having the team hit the barrel, but players don't want to participate in the barrel game so they complain about it and make a hard to land ability just that much less rewarding. GP has been played roughly a week and a half less than Fiora who does TRUE DAMAGE with her setup in such a manner as to be better than gangplank in nearly every way.

It seems that the plague of flashy plays is seeping into the population, blinding them from the real threats to the league.

Not to mention they could have just made armpen 50% effective on his E, making it so that people are dissuaded from building %armpen on GP without screwing over people who build GP to be tankier.

Dread NachtAug 24, 20151 votes

Has Riot learned nothing from what they did to sejuani when she synergized with an item so well? They nerfed Sej's Flail by 50% and then ended up reducing the damage of cinderhulk anyways creating a net loss effectively removing her from the champion pool DURING the TANK META no less. It's only a matter of time until they say last whisper is too OP and decide to nerf the item as well.

Pretty DhiziAug 24, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fyenax Arrowsong,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Gw8EqRcE,comment-id=0001000000010000,timestamp=2015-08-24T13:48:12.647+0000)

When barrels can be destroyed faster than the time required to finish the firing animation of parley at nearly all points in the game, you have to go in and melee it for a chance at triggering it against a team that is aware of their surroundings. With the nerfs to tank items GP is going to get slaughtered if he ends up in the middle of the fray, as he has no means of hard CC to ensure his safety against the enemy carries.

We aren't talking about inevitably taking damage by messing up dodging a nidalee spear, we're talking about a mechanic that is 100% avoidable at all times by just having the team hit the barrel, but players don't want to participate in the barrel game so they complain about it and make a hard to land ability just that much less rewarding. GP has been played roughly a week and a half less than Fiora who does TRUE DAMAGE with her setup in such a manner as to be better than gangplank in nearly every way.

It seems that the plague of flashy plays is seeping into the population, blinding them from the real threats to the league.

Not to mention they could have just made armpen 50% effective on his E, making it so that people are dissuaded from building %armpen on GP without screwing over people who build GP to be tankier.

45% is enough. Simple. If you're so dissuaded from not having 60% pen, just go buy a last whisper and completely ruin others days with ridiculous damage.

ErockandrollAug 24, 20151 votes

Gangplank Gets 60% Armorpen on a fairly low cd ability. Considered to be ruined by a reduction to 45% Armor pen.

Yasuo Gets only 50% Armorpen on an Ultimate ability. Considered free stats, and dubbed the Feelo Samurai.

Dread NachtAug 24, 20151 votes

get's 60% armpen to that ability only*, gets nullified by 3 or less autos

gets 50% armpen TO ALL ABILITIES/ATTACKS

-both require setup to use, but Yasuo can have teamcomps do all the setup for him that is virtually unavoidable at times (malph or Wukong ult from nowhere), Gp still has to destroy his own barrels before the enemy team does so.

in other words: they're exactly the same and such a comparison is the epitome of the awe-inspiring sense of perception that humanity has gained through it's near 3000 years of existence as a rational being

Irelia BotAug 24, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fyenax Arrowsong,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Gw8EqRcE,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-08-24T03:29:10.212+0000)

get's 60% armpen to that ability only*, gets nullified by 3 or less autos

gets 50% armpen TO ALL ABILITIES/ATTACKS

-both require setup to use, but Yasuo can have teamcomps do all the setup for him, Gp still has to destroy his own barrels.

I wouldn't call putting out a barrel where if a melee goes to attack it will get damaged much set up. The bigger issue is the ability to place a second one next to it then attack the first which makes the second go off all in under a second. That makes his zoning even stronger and it is hard to get out of the range of it.

I would much rather see the barrels only last 15 seconds, cost mana or have a charge up time before they can explode from another barrel.

Dread NachtAug 24, 20151 votes

If you see gangplank using his q in the direction a bush you should already be walking away, that's a lack of awareness.

In the laning phase melee should be trying to either bait or attack it as soon as it spawns to throw off Gangplanks tempo with detonating the barrel, ranged people should just autoattack it in teamfights and if they happen to be a vayne/Quinn top (which is again, far more powerful and cancerous than gangplank, but you see nothing being done about that)

if it had an arming time then it would have to be compensated in some way. unless you like how riot "compensated" veigar for similar reasoning

Irelia BotAug 24, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fyenax Arrowsong,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Gw8EqRcE,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-24T03:44:24.116+0000)

If you see gangplank using his q in the direction a bush you should already be walking away, that's a lack of awareness.

In the laning phase melee should be trying to either bait or attack it as soon as it spawns to throw off Gangplanks tempo with detonating the barrel, ranged people should just autoattack it in teamfights and if they happen to be a vayne/Quinn top (which is again, far more powerful and cancerous than gangplank, but you see nothing being done about that)

if it had an arming time then it would have to be compensated in some way.

evne an arming time compairable to that of a ward going stealthed? aka only Shyvana can really kill it fast enough on her own.

Dread NachtAug 24, 20151 votes

also Leona or anyone with an AA reset really (either nautral or via hydra, which nearly every bruiser builds as their first item if they aren't losing). Since parley's travel time is slower than most attack animations, you wouldn't be able to detonate a single barrel before they autoattack it when it becomes armed unless you're at point blank, which defeats the purpose of using parrrley to poke. so your only option is to walk up to it and smack it yourself, which is pretty much a death sentence with the current meta top picks.

Not to mention spell shield block the damage and effect of the barrel (since kog's passive can be blocked in a similar fashion)