Can we please have a turret KDA?

CheftoniFTW··42 votes·1,751 views

I find that players focus more on kills rather than actual usefulness in regards to how a game went. I get a lot of teammates who go 20/15/7 and go "gg ez" when they haven't even taken their first tower at the end of the game. I have players straight up leaving their lane to attempt to hunt other players when the point of the game is to take the Nexus, not get the most kills. I tend to play top lane and my focus isn't on taking out the enemy, my goal to to have a higher cs count and get to their Nexus first. If they run away at low health, I let them run. I have won my advantage.

This leads to a tangent on players who focus on kills. If you have an advantage, USE IT instead of hunting down players just to get more!

Context: I had a Kindred that was doing really well early game with 10 kills in the first 10 minutes but did NOTHING to help the lanes outside of just killing the enemy champs and farming the jungle and top lane/jungler. i.e: Didn't push lanes, didn't take Dragon, didn't assist on towers. She even took the Rift Herald... like, that's a rant on its own, but I digress. In the end, she became ultimately useless because she never came to help bot lane, which was doing fairly well, (I was ADC, Ezreal/Leona vs Quinn/Nautilus) but we were at a constant stalemate until eventually Quinn took my first tower then started roaming. A lot of people don't understand the importance of towers! It allows other lanes to grab control of the enemy jungle and help rotate those laners to help other lanes, eventually winning the game!

I have no idea how the scaling of champs work, I just know basic strategies of this game (If someone was willing to teach, that would be swell) but eventually Kindred became useless and we got stupidly overpowered with Jax coming in the late game and destroying our towers while my idiot teammates were chasing after the injured Nautilus while Jax was merrily taking top tower without a care.

tl;dr Please Riot, try to encourage players to take towers by giving it its own score. Being 5/2/12 with 3 towers is better than being 20/15/7 with no towers. It encourages people to flame the actually useful members for doing their damn job.

41 Comments

BIue Monk17 votes

At first sight I thought you wanted to give towers a KDA (how many people this tower killed), lolz.

CheftoniFTW7 votes

Towers are too weak to kill people. XD

BIue Monk2 votes

{quoted}

Towers are too weak to kill people. XD

Hm, I really expected your match history: Mundo, Mundo, Mundo, ... :D JK.

CheftoniFTW2 votes

Yeah, I tend to play tanky champs, but even then, I've seen assassins tank those things like it's nobody's business. :/

Pierce The Veal2 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, I tend to play tanky champs, but even then, I've seen assassins tank those things like it's nobody's business. :/

I've watched ad carries tank them. That's just not fair.

SirHeavyScrotum2 votes

Lol the other day I was playing Mundo and was fed, ran into a tower and killed someone 100-0 while taking tower shots the whole time and still had full health. Mundo think u a big sissy, tower!

CheftoniFTW1 votes

God, I love spamming that taunt.

Ichinose5 votes

Why not ? :-)

+1

Knoyle5 votes

First make it so Minions don't get credit unless literally no champ hit that turret.

CheftoniFTW2 votes

Totally agree with you there. It sucks not having your picture pop up when a tower goes down. Especially when you juke the entire enemy team through their jungle to take it down faster.

Sire Hippington3 votes

Endgame stats could use alot of polishing...

Sevixys3 votes

How about... Four indicators next to KDA:

  1. damage dealtVayne (as percents, if you have done all the dmg of your team, then you have 100% dd),
  2. damage takenTahmKench (the same explanation as before, but kinda reversed)
  3. turretsTryndamere .
  4. wards placed. Bard

And if one finds those stats distracting, he can make them toggle-able, like the additional stat screen by pressing C. [slayer-jinx-wink]

CheftoniFTW2 votes

A lot of people would find this info distracting, but I get where you're coming from. I agree that more info should be put on a higher pedestal than just "Did most kills, MVP"

I was thinking originally just turrets, but now you bring up more important stats (More specifically wards placed/purchased/destroyed) they should also pop up, but as you said, as a seperate page (hitting c or another key).

Xonra2 votes

LAst game I played Heimer (few hours ago) I took every top turret, 1 in mid, and 2 bot (by myself mind you, as in no one else on my team even as much as auto attacked them) because everyone on my team was bloodthirsty.

I'm not by any means bragging, but since I wasn't team fighting (which usually ended up poorly anyways given they were fighting in the enemy jungle a lot) my team was mocking was "no kills" which I still ended up having I think like 5, but I basically won us the game taking top all the way to inhib alone, then doing near the same to bot (and took the inhib by myself as well). People only care about kills, and since they didn't see "towers killed" anywhere, and just my lack of kills, they were flaming me (despite carrying us to an easy win with getting free towers).

FistOfSharkiesha2 votes

I love taking 8 turrets and 3 inhibitors only to go 10/9/5 as Heimerdinger because I'm constantly 1v5ing while my 5/0 ADC who had a free lane all game because her laner was ganking me is considered the carry.

But seriously, we need this so bad. Also damage taken.

PDE5 Inhibitors2 votes

The problem with your smart play is that it doesn't work at low elo. In low elo, you will probably have at least 2 of your players that have 5 deaths by the 6 min mark for absolutely no reason other than they are being dumb. So you have to try and get as fed as possible.

CheftoniFTW1 votes

Yes, but this smart play can be taught and learned. If a bad player who focuses solely on kills notices that he is ultimately useless to his team on a larger scale, he will change his perspective and play more intelligently.

Getting fed should not be the only solution, what if you end up laning against someone on the same level of skill as you? Your kill count won't go up, and maintaining your cs count high can be replicated by your opponent. Strategy wins games, not kills.

Only Play Darius1 votes

100% true. I'm climbing my way out of Bronze and it is SO much easier to pick Yasuo and get snowballed in 10 minutes and carry the team than to pick Nasus and pray to god botlane doesn't feed 20 kills in 5 minutes.

And I have been playing Nas for far longer than I have been playing Yas.

ahferroin72 votes

I think part of this issue is that people forget that this is a team game.

The other issue is that so many people don't properly understand legitimate tactics other than trying to completely flatten their opponents. I can't count the number of times that I just dive a tower as Nasus or someone else who's tanky with huge siege potential, and get flamed by team despite taking the tower and usually forcing at least half the enemy team to come after me (and therefore reducing their presence elsewhere, allowing the rest of my team to push). I had a game a couple months ago where I was playing top and was the only person on our team who destroyed any towers or inhibitors, and people were still yelling at me for walking up to the towers with no minions around, even though I was killing them in 1 hit.

Sypher The Poro1 votes

I kinda agree with you, but at the same time no. I still think the idea is cool, but here's what I mean:

I mainRiven (Yes, bring on the hate) and she is a strong snowball champion. I play a bit more aggressive in most match ups instead of farming because getting a gold/level lead is more important. Once I get a couple kills and I'm far enough ahead, my lane becomes a death trap for my enemy laner. If he attempts to farm, I can jump on him and delete them near instantly. Eventually, most tanks out scale Riven which is why I play for the early/mid game by getting that lead.

This is where roaming comes in. If I'm top lane, at 7/0/0, staying in lane to push the tower with a high snowball champion is a bad idea. If I were, say Nasus or Jax then that's fine since they prefer farming up for the late game just walk all over the enemy team. However with Riven and similar champs such as Lee Sin, Rengar, Kha'Zix, etc roaming is far more important.

So here's the scenario: As Riven top I'm 7/0/0. Their jungler has already ganked twice, once dying to me for a double and the second backing off before the fight even happens. At this point, top + jungle cannot stop me so I would either push down towers for free and attract more attention to my lane resulting in a 3+ man gank or I could head mid to secure a kill and push their tower.

Another thing, is most top laners will take TP unless they're a Rengar or just want the early kill cheese. Here's something important: If you take TP and your enemy laner takes ignite, if you win lane they have only 1 useful summoner. However, if they win lane you can still provide map pressure. Especially with an early lead, watch bot lane and try to TP behind the enemy duo to sandwich them. If your jungler heads bot as well, this is almost always a double kill and free dragon afterwards. If you have enough pushing power and damage you can often take bot's tower too. Yes, you may lose your top tower but in the long run securing the 1st dragon is easily far more worth.

I tend to play top lane and my focus isn't on taking out the enemy, my goal to to have a higher cs count and get to their Nexus first.

This is smart, a good way to play but don't forget taking out the enemy means they cannot take objectives. My #1 rule when playing games, is Try not to die. Unless me dying result in a double kill or taken objective, I will try to keep myself from dying. Yes, I tower dove their 0/24/0 Darius as Riven and killed him again, but now without me my team is a lot worse off than the enemies' extra large cannon minion Darius.

Towers do win games, but especially in season 6 with these strong snowball type games, kills can often lead to a large gold/level advantage and help you take objectives easier.

Also, feel free to add me if you have any questions. I'm no master at the game (Silver V, but silver was my goal this season so I just stopped playing ranked) but I have a general feel for almost all the champions, how to ward, build paths, etc. And if you ever want to get into Riven, I'm at a 160K mastery points and counting.

CheftoniFTW1 votes

Since preseason, I've started playing Mundo top, since I figured his e is an auto-reset, I can technically take the tower twice as fast as the enemy. I do roam, but I only do that once I've taken the first tower, then I put pressure on the other lanes (Usually bot lane) then focus on pushing out my lane further whenever I have an opportunity or whenever tp is back up. I still think that having a tower KDA would encourage more tactical thinking from summoners instead of thinking they're hot shit just because they have more kills than you. (I mean, how much of a threat is that 0/24/0 Darius? He's worth like, what? 50g?) My biggest grief and reason why I made this post was that I felt like I'm the only one on my team taking towers, even when I play my main man Thresh I stick around and whittle down their tower whenever I can.

I'd be glad to add you, maybe get some tips, I tried playing Riven once... maybe twice? lol I feel like season 6 will finally be my year out of Bronze, been stuck there since season 3 and have only started seeing real improvement since season 5 when I started taking the game more seriously (Getting my cs up past the hundreds, not dying, etc.) Started in Bronze 5 and worked my way up to Bronze 2 until I lost a few games and went back to Bronze 3. (The struggle was real)

Sypher The Poro1 votes

I see what you mean. Towers are always important, but sometimes removing an enemy from the equation means more than just a tower. Also, shutdowns now give team gold instead of just bonus gold to the killer. Shutting down the 9/0/0 Quinn is about 400 G per person not counting the kill gold, which is about twice that of a tower.

Here's something to remeber, mid tower is always more important than bot or top. It opens up both sides of the enemy jungle and allows your mid-laner, who is 99% of the time a high-damage carry, to roam easier without the fear of their tower being easily taken. Middle is also the shortest lane, so shoving in to their inhib towers before rotating to dragon/baron is a lot faster and easier.

And like I said, that Darius is basically an over-sized melee minion at this point.

HighH11 votes

But that's only when you beat him right because that over-sized melee minion heals for 12% max HP for hitting his Q right and has a true damage point and click finisher

Sypher The Poro1 votes

Maybe so, but Darius is all about his Q damage in lane. If he tries to use it on you, you dash towards him with E and go into a full combo. Try for short trades unless you know you can hill him. His passive gives a lot of AD, even early, so try and back off if he gets it up.

SirHeavyScrotum2 votes

Yeah, but it's not like people will be like "Damn that Riven went 13/2/5 but only killed one tower, what a shitter." People are reasonable, they can see that you're intentionally not taking the tower. Or maybe some unreasonable people won't but who cares about them, they probably just want the global gold. But I think the sentiment that he was going for was that sometimes KDA doesn't tell the whole story. I play a lot of Jax myself, and I like to split push with him in the mid/late game (or even the early game the way this season is going). This means that I have a pretty cruddy KDA sometimes, because when people do come I often run because they don't come alone, or I die because they don't come alone. But nobody can 1v1 me, so I get several towers out of them not having more than one person to send to stop me. If you look at my KDA at the end of the game, I went 5/6/7, but in reality carried the shit out of the game by taking 4 towers and an inhibitor, and by distracting the enemy team so that mine could take other objectives. Sure you can't put a stat on "enemies distracted", but you can at least give those who are on split pushing duty a meaningful stat to show that they did their part to help win the game too.

Spoofghoul1 votes

lol if they need 3 man to stop you pushing top i would say keep on pushing, especially with Riven she is the most mobile champion in league its not like poeple can actually catch you. And here is the thing if they don't stop you free towers inhibs and nexus turrets

If however they do come 3 top all the time, place wards, then you can spot them and back off meanwhile free dragons enemy jungle camps and towers for your team.

You just start roaming when your team doesn't make use of the pressure you provide and take their lanes towers for them.

I GANK LANES1 votes

i stopped reading at "their turret" at like the 3rd line.

CheftoniFTW2 votes

Sick input, brah.

I GANK LANES1 votes

bad thread, brah

Pierce The Veal1 votes

The best cc is death.

That's how I win as akali when I play her. I bully the entire enemy team as hard as I can so that my team can get ahead.

CheftoniFTW1 votes

I agree with you, but denial of an advantage should be considered as an alternative to your "cc". As long as you are in lane and they are not (be it death or recalling) you have won that advantage by either dealing damage to the turret or taking cs and denying their cs by leading them to the turret.

I'm not saying don't kill, but if your enemy is running away from you in the jungle and you are chasing them for almost 2 minutes, neither you nor you opponent have any advantage, sure you may get that kill in the end but your lane hasn't been pushed, you lose cs and if your lane was weaker when you left, your lane gets pushed more than his does. Ultimately, you gain a bit of gold, but lose the extra cs and lane advantage BECAUSE you focused on the kill.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

I agree with you, but denial of an advantage should be considered as an alternative to your "cc". As long as you are in lane and they are not (be it death or recalling) you have won that advantage by either dealing damage to the turret or taking cs and denying their cs by leading them to the turret.

I'm not saying don't kill, but if your enemy is running away from you in the jungle and you are chasing them for almost 2 minutes, neither you nor you opponent have any advantage, sure you may get that kill in the end but your lane hasn't been pushed, you lose cs and if your lane was weaker when you left, your lane gets pushed more than his does. Ultimately, you gain a bit of gold, but lose the extra cs and lane advantage BECAUSE you focused on the kill.

Well yeah, but if I can pick up two kills and prevent them from getting dragon because of it, it was worth. Focusing THAT much on kills isn't efficient killing. You need to be very oppurtunistic as an assassin, but not overstay your welcome.

AbyssionKnight1 votes

Well, you already can see how many towers you killed post game, and I think that's enough. Adding tower kills to the UI just starts to clutter it, as i'm sure people would then want baron/dragon kills counted too, so if the jungler fail smites they can bm them about that as well.

It's easier to leave tower kills in the post game information.

CheftoniFTW1 votes

Most people I've encountered don't bother looking at end-game stats, they leave almost immediately as the victory screen pops up. Either that or they'll flame the player who had the least amount of kills for being useless even if said player pushed his lane to the enemy inhib.

As for Dragon and Baron counts, they should stay the way they are as they are permanent buffs (Dragon) or objective count (Baron) you rarely get over 5 Dragons or 2 Barons per game, so showing who killed it doesn't really matter as long as the buff is secured.

Akesgeroth1 votes

Though pushing and winning is indeed the goal of the game, turrets are such a joke nowadays that there is no merit to taking one down.

CheftoniFTW1 votes

I agree, turrets should be buffed, but that doesn't mean that having that lane and jungle advantage should be ignored.

Only Play Darius1 votes

Sometimes you want to leave towers up for certain reasons, however. For example, with Darius before his rework, you wanted the laning phase to go on for as long as possible because Darius was useless in teamfights and his rotations were a joke. It was to your advantage to make the most of your extreme laning strength by forcing your opponent to farm CS as far away from his base as possible, so you can keep killing him when he comes back to lane and shut him down. Therefore, it was best to leave his outer turret untouched until you got 7 or so kills from him. It's a similar strategy with Nasus, even though he's a splitpusher you want to leave the enemy outer turret standing for as long as possible, as it makes it easier to freeze lane on the safe side of the map and allows you to stack without risk of getting ganked.

CheftoniFTW1 votes

Huh... I did not think there were strategies depending on the champion of how long turrets should stand. So, pushing into your enemy would be best for late-game champs and freezing best for early-game champs?

Only Play Darius1 votes

Pushing is generally better for early game champs while freezing is usually better for late, actually. But it is usually champion-specific, and roaming capability also plays a factor.

For example Renekton Darius Teemo are generally good at shutting down other champions but bad at roaming, so often they will avoid pushing the tower and will just sit in lane killing their opponent every time they try to CS (although this strategy isn't as popular ever since Teleport became meta, as the losing champion can often just counter this by helping botlane before they get completely shutdown)

ahferroin71 votes

In general, yes, but it's not just late-game versus early-game. I play Nasus top a lot, and he's really a late game champ, but it's not unusual for me to leave the top turret standing until at least 15 minutes, and sometimes even longer (which also has the advantage that when I want it gone, I've got enough stacks to do so in a few seconds). There are a couple of other champs who you ideally want to freeze lane for a while with, Anivia is a prime example, until she hit's level 6 and a couple of items, she's really vulnerable, so it's safer to fight under your ttower until then, then use your ult to force the wave to their tower as fast as possible when you need to take it. Veigar and Sion can pull this strategy very effectively as well, for similar reasons to Nasus.

There are all kinds of other laming strategies though. For example, Illaoi can freeze lane if she wants, and get lots of CS, but she can also play kind of like Heimerdinger, slowly pushing forward until she's forced her opponent up against their turret (and possibly even further than that, cause her passive can spawn tentacles on the enemy turret, and the turret won't attack them).

More from Gameplay

More by CheftoniFTW