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I enjoy playing Aatrox, but he kinda sucks. Here's an idea to improve him.

Quality Content··5 votes·2,281 views

If you've ever played Aatrox in a lengthy match you've probably experienced the pain that is his damage fall off. Not doing damage as a fighter late game isn't fun, especially when that damage requires you to expend your health. Accelerating your death with minimal gain is no good.

If you take a look at fighters like Vi and Shyvana and ask "Why don't these champs fall off?" the answer is they have a damage source that scales even if they build much needed defensive items. So what if Aatrox had something similar?

Let's say we rescale the damage of blood price to something like 130 + 6% of the target's max hp. At level 9 the damage remains relatively the same, but won't cease to scale like it currently does. A change like this would mean Aatrox can still do respectable damage when he chooses to expend his health without giving him damage that'll just murder carries faster.

Thoughts?

22 Comments

Only Play Darius2 votes

Try splitpushing when you feel your damage fall off. Aatrox really doesn't lose 1v1's.

KMannnnn12 votes

*past certain item thresholds

He definitely struggles against a lot of fighters 1v1 during the earlier phases of the game, unlike other duelists.

48983507DEL12 votes

Honestly he needs a couple of things either changed or buffed. First he needs his base health to be increased by a little, say maybe 10-20 hp at lvl 1. Next, the knockup on Dark Flight needs to be more reliable; a way to do this would be to make the knockup duration increase if it's closer to the middle instead of not knocking up at all, or just increase the size of the ability alltogether. Finally, and probably most importantly, Riot needs to decide if he's supposed to lean more towards a tank or a damage dealer. Here are a few suggestions that would make him stronger in one or the other.

If he's more of tank: -Make his W heal for a percentage of his health instead of being based on bonus AD -Make his R deal damage basaed on enemy's max/current health and possibly -Make his E have a reduced cooldown based on Auto-Attacking

If he's more of a damage dealer: -Increase his W's damage ratio (say 120% bonus AD) -Increase his E's damage ratio (say 80% or 90% bonus AD) and remove the ability power ratio and possibly -Make his R scale with attack damage instead of ability power (say 80% or 90% bonus AD)

I'm sure the reasoning behind these changes are pretty obvious, and it may be pushing it a little bit on a few of them, but honestly if any of them get implemented I will be very happy. Right now it's sad that early game lane bullies like Renekton, Garen, and J4 can have more mobility, more tanky stats, more teamfight potential, and higher damage rations then someone like Aatrox does.

Hard4Hamsters2 votes

On the damage dealer section. I think the Ult should still scale off of AP and not AD. If you overload a kit with AD ratios on every ability, you run into balance issues. Riven It's fine as is, but he does need something to make him have more of an identity. Your proposed changes would make him even more facerolly than Riven in terms of ridiculous ratios. I like the Tankier proposals, but his R again is an AOE nuke and having that based on health is also problematic; see Evelynn.

I don't know if Riot can give Aatrox what he needs to fit thematically into his lore without some sort of rework. Right now, he is just a generic fighter with a revive. I like the mechanic of the blood well, but I think it shouldn't be the only thing about him that makes him unique. If they were to buff him too much, he will become OP very easily, but keeping him as is doesn't give any real reason to pick him over another fighter.

I've thought half-way on this, but one rework I thought of would involve having him have different effects on abilities based on which stance he is in "Blood Price" vs "Blood Thirst". I'm not sure what specifically those effects would be, but they would compliment either offensive or defensive play (extra damage could be a thing and would probably cost extra health; maybe granting defensive stats when casting Dark Flight in "Blood Thirst" stance).

I think that would be a longer term rework as Aatrox is fairly new in the game (as compared to others) but it would actually probably compliment his "am i a tank or a damage dealer" state he is in right now, but giving him more dynamic play (it would also make his micro a little harder).

The only other thing I see happening for Aatrox would be to buff his Ult to grant a buff to nearby allies (kinda like Taric) that would give Lifesteal and Spell vamp for a few seconds. This fits with his theme as a champion of slaughter who inspires those on the battlefield. Balancing out the lifesteal and spell vamp duration and amount would be a little challenging to balance in his current state so it would probably accompany some nerfs in other areas of his kit, which might make him a champion who was completely dependent on his ult which might not be such a great idea, but it might be able to accompany a rework in the future where other things may be more balanced out. If it were to accompany the rework I hinted at, it could give different stats based on if you were in Offense or Defense mode (spell vamp and lifesteal for defense mode, AS and MS for offense mode (I would say AD and AP, but I wouldn't want it to be copy/paste of Taric). Maybe he would be overloaded if he was able to give buffs to allies, but I'm at design stage, not balance :P.

His patch history is relatively uneventful for being a 2 year old champion. I don't think he really delivers on what he is supposed to be based on his lore though, and that's kind of disappointing. He does better in small skirmishes than in teamfights (where he would seem to be very strong in based on his lore). I would want to take some of the power out of his early game and lane bullying and put it into his midgame for teamfights and I think allowing him to buff his allies may be a good change, as long as some of his early power is redistributed. (he would still be strong in the early game purely based on his revive allowing him to take fights nobody else would, but his damage is very strong in the early game in a duel)

I know this is probably a ways off from being priority for Riot, but I do think Aatrox needs something to make him more exciting and interesting to play. Ultimately, I really long for some sort of buff to allies to his Ult. (his Ult would probably need a shorter duration) It really makes sense to me thematically, but I understand that balancing him afterwards would be difficult. I just feel like he needs something to make him at least a niche pick for certain team comps. Right now his best bet is being an Orianna ball delivery system, but other champions can do that somewhat better than him and then have other things to fall back on. Right now, he's a duelist, but I would like to see him more of a teamfighter.

Thank you if you read this. Any feedback would be appreciated. Good luck to everyone. Peace.

48983507DEL11 votes

[{quoted}](name=MyNamesAmsToki ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GeHN22Gy,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2015-05-04T16:58:58.172+0000)

Yea the kit i suggested was kind of overloaded, especially the ult part. I think he still needs a slight buff in his damage ratios, mainly just on his E. I think the idea for the ultimate giving an aura is a fantastic idea, but maybe just lifesteal and not spellvamp since spellvamp is a lot different since most mages don't buy it, while most adcs and fighters/assassins do buy lifesteal.

I do also like the idea of making his stance swap his ability effects, one being more defensive and one being more offensive. I think if you were in the Bloodthirst form, or essentially the more tankier form, his Q and E should stay the same, but while in the Bloodprice form, his Q and E should do more damage but lack the crowd control, and using the empowered auto-attack should reduce their cooldowns. That would make him take more knowledge to play while giving him more options, as well as giving him a better reason to use Bloodprice since right now it's usually better to get the heal instead of the damage in almost every situation.

Hard4Hamsters1 votes

Yeah, I realize that spell vamp isn't bought on a lot of mages but I wanted his ult to maybe benefit Mages too. But I did say that I wanted him to be at least a niche pick and I had that in mind. If his Ult was basically just a Zeke's Herald (basically just extra lifesteal) in terms of buffs, he would be a great choice for High AD comps, but he would be less useful in a more typical team of 1 or 2 magic dealers.

And to your ideas, I agree. Bloodprice is almost only used for burst when you jump on your lane opponent to trade with them. In teamfights, using Bloodprice will just kill you faster. I like the idea of the empowered auto reducing the CDs of his other abilities; that is clever. I honestly don't like his E, I understand that it allows him to have a ranged ability, but it just seems lackluster to me. But I wouldn't mind if it stayed in his kit. I was thinking that in Bloodprice, your abilities would do more damage, while in Bloodthirst, you would gain an empowered slow on E with lower damage and your Q would give a short defensive boost (damage reduction, armor + mr, or shield). I would prefer damage reduction or a shield as it makes no sense to me that he would gain armor and mr just for flying for half a second, whereas damage reduction would just imply that he doesn't feel the damage as much because he is charging in with a burst of adrenaline. The shield could be justified as a "blood shield" so I have no qualms of that either.

I'm not sure if his Ult would benefit from either stance to be honest, but either AS and MS or Lifesteal and Spell Vamp (or just Lifesteal) could be seen as offensive and defensive so it could work that way. Thanks for the feedback.

Nightmist Dark1 votes

indeed, in his lore Aatrox helped the Protectorates win the fight against the Magelords, so having a team oriented Ult fits him. imagine Q+R into a teamfight. a Rioter said something about adding AoE Fear to his R, would be nice seeing how that goes.

Hard4Hamsters1 votes

That wouldn't be bad. A fear mechanic would make for a better teamfighter as well. I just like the idea of a team buff because it was stated that he inspired the Protectorates to keep fighting rather than making the Magelords lose the will to fight. But hey, not all things in the lore translate into kits.

Fuaztin1 votes

Not flashy enough. Needs more Zed and Leblanc

KMannnnn11 votes

I play a lot of Aatrox as well, and I will say lacking %HP damage is a big downside, but since BoRK is such a commonly purchased item on him (for me, at least), I would say that downside is easily dampened. Honestly, I would say his biggest problem is that he's a splitpusher in a teamfighting meta, and he just doesn't have the AoE damage or CC that other fighters and tanks provide (e.g. Maokai, Sion, Irelia). He can still do decently in 1v1s once you hit your first few big items, but since he can't reliably lock down or stick to enemy carries, he just isn't what most teams want or need.

Aatrox for life tho.

Quality Content1 votes

Trouble is if I go Botrk I can't get Hydra, and then I sit there struggling to push waves back when we lose an inhib. If your team is on the defensive he's really can't contribute much.

KMannnnn11 votes

There's nothing wrong with picking up both. In fact, with two lifesteal items +spirit visage, you can pretty much keep your damage W up all the time with no worries. As far as clearing super minions, I would agree he doesn't have the best waveclear, but BoRK will let him focus down the super creeps themselves a lot quicker, thereby debuffing the rest of the minions.

But like I said, he's a splitpushing duelist, so he's not really going to be the most direct contributor in a teamfight, and his siege defense is pretty awful because he's not built for it. However, an Aatrox pushing a side lane will demand a quick answer at risk of losing multiple towers.

Psi211 votes

Aatrox was a Morello champ he helped make. Much like his balancing techniques all 3 suck.

Qarekeo1 votes

I thought this guy's early game was horrifying. I win almost every game and dominate every lane (even Teemo) just through raw sustain. I don't know how to counter him since his kit is so general and aggressive-minded.

junglerboy161 votes

the reason he falls off isn't that he needs max health scaling (that would make him a tank, not a DPS fighter), it is that he has pathetic ratios and deals mixed damage, meaning he can't get anything out of armor pen, unlike other attempts at a melee cary like Yi or Yasuo.

Nilok1 votes

I think you misread the post, not that his Blood Price would deal damage based on his max health, but his target's max health. Like BORK, but it hurts him instead of healing him.

Riot has said that %max health scaling is for moves that are meant to have reliable damage throughout the game, not just for tanks.

junglerboy161 votes

no, that's exactly what I thought it said. Giving somebody % max health damage naturally incentivizes building tanky after that, since you deal damage anyway, regardless of building much more damage.

This change would make full tank Aatrox much stronger than any sort of DPS Aatrox, and Aatrox isn't supposed to be a true tank, but rather a drain tank (i.e. he builds a lot of damage and heals himself off of that damage).

If they buffed his AD ratios he would scale better, and not just get to build tank and do damage anyway.

Nilok1 votes

I can see that, but melee champs, unless they can gib someone and escape, need to build some tankiness.

I think the poster was using Vi as a primary example, since she has AD scaling % max health damage on every third attack, which both keeps the move viable if she builds tanky, but encourages her to get more damage. Something similar may work well on Aatrox.

junglerboy161 votes

ok, yes, if he got to have an AD scaling on it, I can see that working, just not the flat proc that the OP suggested.

Shrek Luigi1 votes

Aatrox item 3710 item 3153 item 3091 item 3143

Aatrox is very unorthodox for a fighter champ, for sure. I personally see the magic damage worked into his kit as a blessing, as the enemy botlane usually isn't toting heavy MR early on. Also, Aatrox doesn't need a lot of AD since his damage is directly tied to how long he can stay in a fight and, since he has massive sustain with his W, benefits more from goofy hybrid attack speed items which is insanely fun.

I like where Aatrox is, personally, and I know I'll get a lot of flak for posting this but he's a lot more viable than people realize.

Hard4Hamsters1 votes

I won't give you flak for liking where Aatrox is. I just think that he is too dependent on a lot of items to be effective in the mid-lategame. I agree that his damage is dependent on how long he stays in a fight, but that's the same as a marksman ADC, if they get blown up early, they contribute nothing to the teamfight, Aatrox just has a big disadvantage as he is not ranged (even with his Ult it is low). So he is more likely to get blown up in teamfights. He has sustain in teamfights, yes, but he lacks innate tankiness to survive burst damage. His passive is supposed to help with this, but once he comes back up, he is weaker and will get blown up again without contributing much to a teamfight (this of course if he is focused).

He does fairly well in solo queue, as do a lot of melee ADCs, but he really doesn't fit in a TEAMcomp where another fighter champion wouldn't be better as they are either less item dependent Tryndamere, or more teamfight oriented JarvanIV .

Nightmist Dark1 votes

http://th09.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2014/160/3/1/3108d1852e274f7c5ab0059f4253f9fe-d7ln5cl.jpg indeed, in his lore Aatrox helped the Protectorates win the fight against the Magelords, so having a team oriented Ult fits him. imagine Q+R into a teamfight. a Rioter said something about adding AoE Fear to his R, would be nice seeing how that goes.

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