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Zoe's E is extremely loaded for a single ability.

Sexy Jack Rabbit··15 votes·1,546 views

Now first of all I'm not saying she's OP or weak. Just that this particular ability is LOADED.

Through the 9 games I've played her I've come to realize this ability has A LOT for a single spell.

For Starters the skill shot portion of the ability: Variable Hitbox range. Fast Projectile Speed AOE if it doesn't land. (Literal Lollipopping)

Spell Portion: High Base Damage. Good Mana Cost late. Powerful Slow and Stun. Double Damage on follow up from Zoe or her Teammates. Guaranteed 15 - 30% CD refund on champion hit (Unless QSS'd upon Hit)

As for cons of the ability I could really only find 3: Large Hitbox Flat Mana cost (So high b4 u get mana items but better late) Average AP Ratio.

I feel as if Riot wants to target any part of her kit it would be her E. Perhaps removing the CD refund on the Sleep CC, and move it to Q. Which is supposed to be her bread-and-butter. Perhaps on Large, Epic Monster or Champion kills Q gets refunded by 15 - 25%.

27 Comments

Azadethe3 votes

  1. It's not aoe if it doesnt land. it still only activates on one target.

  2. it's extremely difficult to land if your team doesn't ward correctly.

  3. the double damage is capped at Zoe's current base damage of the skill, so in reality, it only double's Zoe's damage, not the damage of someone else's skill (think karma''s Mantra Q, or Ahri's Q)

It's a good ability but it's really hard to use vs teams that don't get right up in your face, who aren't fed. If a Cait of vayne walks into your E, you're likely to die before it activates. It might save you from an Evelynn if you know where to aim. But long range.... its very hard to hit angles where it actually helps, and often your teammates pop the bubble before it sleeps, negating the extra damage, and making you prone to dying.

Currently she's a loser champ, even in Plat + with a 35% pick rate. If she's pulling 30% among 35% of Plat + you have to think: She's not that strong. She just has small bursts of being strong.

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

The trap effect is an AOE. You're thinking I said Multi-target.

Even Camille was loser champ for the first few days of her release.

Almost all new champions have low win-rate upon being released.

I've found it extremely easy to land in 90% of scenarios and I play in bronze where hardly any1 wards.

Azadethe2 votes

Camille was not a loser champ. In fact she was released with a 57% win rate. And I understand loser champ at lower elos. But when 35% of Plat + is struggling with a new champ, there's a problem with the skill curve. She's great at bubbling champs who have to dive to do damage like Diana or Fizz, but she sucks vs ones who don't and can hide behind minions. If she attempts to kill long rangers she tends to die before her R is even over.

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

Eh I beg to differ.

I find it extremely easy to land in most situations and getting follow up kills even easier.

Azadethe1 votes

It depends on the teams and minion obstructions. Good teams hide well, and deprive you the wall throwing angles. Any fast clearing mage will deprive you the ability to trade sleeps in a lane pre 6. You can Sleep after 6 using R to bypass minions, but what then? you have to figure out how to long range a paddle star around those same minions.

I can land them okay as a jungler, but Support is iffy, and Mid is so-so. After you land a couple as support, they just get wary. If you land one in lane, people just begin to turtle. Late game is easier than early game. but that's the whole point. Her kit is far better late game than early game.

chipndip12 votes

{quoted}

The trap effect is an AOE. You're thinking I said Multi-target.

Even Camille was loser champ for the first few days of her release.

Almost all new champions have low win-rate upon being released.

I've found it extremely easy to land in 90% of scenarios and I play in bronze where hardly any1 wards.

You play in Bronze where anyone's good at any time doing anything.

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

I did say that yeah. Being in bronze people dodge less and die more.

I'm not saying she's OP. Just that it's an ability with A LOT in it

Troll for Trump3 votes

Everything except her ult/passive is pretty overloaded in her kit if you just look at it, which is the opposite of what it'd normally be like

Tèrminus2 votes

Another con is that it can be blocked by minions/whatever, since it's only the first target hit.

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

True

PhantomGG1 votes

The probelm is in all honesty, everything about her kit is fine except for W, for esentialy you don't have an ability until a spell falls down, and it's pretty RNG making it fairly unreliable. So the only way to fix this weakness is to over load her E and Q, honestly i would of prefered her W to just be given a full rework and allow E nerfs.

PimpStickNasus1 votes

{quoted}

The probelm is in all honesty, everything about her kit is fine except for W, for esentialy you don't have an ability until a spell falls down, and it's pretty RNG making it fairly unreliable. So the only way to fix this weakness is to over load her E and Q, honestly i would of prefered her W to just be given a full rework and allow E nerfs.

I mean, her just RNG getting a redemtion using it then a few seconds later getting and using a GLP is pretty strong Pre-6 despite being unreliable

Oleandervine1 votes

Not really, her kit isn't fine. The purpose of her R is to allow her to combo and burst, but due to the nature of her Q, you're not bursting anything unless they're stupid and you have a completely clear line of fire to them. She needs a different Q to work her R better, because she's got a lot of conflicting aspects of kit that work great when you're calculating super combos, but work like total garbage when you have to fight on the fly in a team fight.

PhantomGG1 votes

{quoted}

Not really, her kit isn't fine. The purpose of her R is to allow her to combo and burst, but due to the nature of her Q, you're not bursting anything unless they're stupid and you have a completely clear line of fire to them. She needs a different Q to work her R better, because she's got a lot of conflicting aspects of kit that work great when you're calculating super combos, but work like total garbage when you have to fight on the fly in a team fight.

Her Q is a complete concept her E is a commplete concept her R is a complete concept

The only thing that feels completely random and bad is her W, and it forces riot to make Q and E really powerful to make up for it.

Oleandervine1 votes

Having abilities as complete concepts does not make a "fine" kit. She's a hodgepodge gimmick of a champion with one maneuver. She can't really do much else without landing perfect Qs, and the fact that her skill curve is incredibly through the roof is indicative of something critically wrong in her kit.

Rayet1 votes

It would be nice if her q could pass through minions, dealing reduced damage to them, but stop when it hits a champion, like sejuani's q. The only champion with a similar problem that i can think of is Nidalee, and she's played jungle because of that. On the other hand, her w is a nightmare to balance.

Bouncemaster Zac1 votes

It's a Blitz hook. If it hits you, you die.

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

Good analogy actually. Reminds me of Lux Q, Morg Q and Ahri Charm actually.

Support Position1 votes

Shes a HARD character to play. Takes A LOT of skill to play her. [zombie-brand-mindblown] I wish all these crybabies about zoe would stop crying. Pick her or ban her. Get over it.

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

Now first of all I'm not saying she's OP or weak.

?

I wasn't referring to her current balance state whatsoever.

Nyarlathοtep1 votes

You forgot to mention its cooking speed. Which is pure bullshit.

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

Oh yeah true

It's not so much BS. Just very fast

Nyarlathοtep

Actually it is bullshit. It can be as bullshit as it can get.

Nausicäa 1 votes

She has no damage ultimate?...... So obviously her other abilities need to be 'loaded' otherwise she couldnt actually kill people?

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

She has 3 abilities capable of dealing damage and her ultimate does no damage because it serves to make her damaging abilities do MORE damage.

She has plenty of kill potential, even if her E wasn't loaded.

Trundle Bundle1 votes

It's a little off to look at the CD refund as a net positive benefit for Zoe, or something that should get moved around/ axed. CertainlyT ended up doing the same thing to help balance Thresh's Q, albeit by a flat amount that works towards his benefit later on in the game. Strictly speaking, the intent should be that properly landing her E gives the intended cooldown, while having it dodged gives her a larger window of vulnerability to exploit. The agency isn't necessarily in her favor, and if it is it might be healthier to raise the actual cooldown while leaving the refund alone.

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

That's something I never considered

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