Imagine your team is chasing a low health Wukong.
He goes into his red, presses W and flashes.
Now, there is no way your team is going to kill the guy as he could be everywhere and your team has no true sight.
So, you use Destiny, reveal him, and your team ends up killing the monkey.
Yet, you are not awarded an assist, even tho your team couldnt kill the chimpanzee if it wasn't for your ult.
Why?
Deep Terror Nami7 votesWard and Scrying Orb vision doesn't give you assist. Passive auras don't. Neither does Nocturnes vision denial. TF's Destiny not doing it either is simply consistent with how assists work.
j j7 votesSkills that function like destiny should provide assists. Same as nocturne's ult. You are directly effecting the outcome of the game whether or not you decide to go in. For wards I agree no assists should be granted though. But if it is skill based like tf or nocturne than it for sure should.
Deep Terror Nami1 votesI would argue that proper ward placement contributes far more to winning matches than TF/Noc Ults in those matches. Both TF and Nocturne almost always use their Ults offensively to get a kill for themselves, rather than simply using it to assist a fight they aren't going to show up for.
I'm not arguing that giving them an assist for it is in any way bad, but if they did, the abilities would start being used far more often for simple utility and would probably be balanced around that in the future.
j j2 votes[{quoted}](name=Valkyrie Witch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GbepPxLo,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-02-26T18:22:44.442+0000)
I would argue that proper ward placement contributes far more to winning matches than TF/Noc Ults in those matches. Both TF and Nocturne almost always use their Ults offensively to get a kill for themselves, rather than simply using it to assist a fight they aren't going to show up for.
I'm not arguing that giving them an assist for it is in any way bad, but if they did, the abilities would start being used far more often for simple utility and would probably be balanced around that in the future.
Ward contribution does help a lot I just have mixed views on it as it changes how much gold is actually distributed across members of the team and how giving assists to people who just lay down wards could be very misinterpreting in the lobby. Player X lays down wards and does his own thing all game but has loads of assists due to his ward placements. Player X never actively engages with any of his members for assists. Post game lobby people want him reported for failure to cooperate, lack of communication but it looks as if he participated.
Now in the nocturne and tf situation it directly effects the enemies because they know they are being watched or lost vision and they know at any given moment they can be engaged on. There is too many uses to compare nocturne and tf to player X more than likely they would always be participating and finding opportunities to assist their team. But on occasion there are those rare circumstances nocturne or tf ult but didn't go in but it ultimately led to a kill for which they should be rewarded. Especially in tf's case where he ultimates in and unfortunately the target gets away due to the cast time but he created a zone or cut off an escape route for the enemy but never had direct contact to get his assist but directly led to your team catching the enemy. That is assist worthy. That's one of many situations where assists should be warranted but also because it gives the enemy team a different play style knowing tf or nocturne could come in while their ults are up. Tf / nocturnes bot lanes, top lanes could trade better and get a kill due to this.
Awoof1 votes[{quoted}](name=Valkyrie Witch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GbepPxLo,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-02-26T18:22:44.442+0000) I'm not arguing that giving them an assist for it is in any way bad, but if they did, the abilities would start being used far more often for simple utility and would probably be balanced around that in the future.
Look at Nocturne's level 1 ult. It's already paying for it's utility, I don't think recognising your contribution on what you can already do anyways will make a balance impact.
qetzel6 votesThey want TF to use his ultimate for setting up plays rather than just popping it when his team is about to get a kill on the other side of the map. It was a decision they made after much thought.
Could TF not teleport to the other side of the monkey to pick up an assist anyway?
Agidyne2 votesThey want TF to use his ultimate for setting up plays rather than just popping it when his team is about to get a kill on the other side of the map. It was a decision they made after much thought.
Could TF not teleport to the other side of the monkey to pick up an assist anyway?
Not if TF had 10 hp.
Samflash32 votesNot if TF's ult is 180 second cd ult.
Megarolf1 votesThey want TF to use his ultimate for setting up plays rather than just popping it when his team is about to get a kill on the other side of the map. It was a decision they made after much thought.
Could TF not teleport to the other side of the monkey to pick up an assist anyway?
Tf sacrifices his ult for a chance at an assist.
Sounds pretty good to me.
Reminds me of someone
xSay2 votesHow in the hell do you know if "It was a decision they made after much thought."
Were you there in the meetings years ago when they were deliberating on TF's kit?
Holy hell.... Some people
qetzel1 votesThis question has been asked before. I read the response and remember roughly what Riot said.
Holy hell... Some people.
Laughing Fish5 votesUpvoted just for the various ways you referred to Wukong.
lxlLilybellelxl2 votesBecause granting TF gold assists every time he uses Destiny, say He wanted to go bot lane with it and snipe a kill, but at the same time that Wukong just happened to be trading with his enemy laner and killed him while Destiny was active. In full vision, never having lost sight, and TF had 0 intention of helping Wu in anyway, Why should he get an assist and gold for that kill?
OJ1911 votesBecause granting TF gold assists every time he uses Destiny, say He wanted to go bot lane with it and snipe a kill, but at the same time that Wukong just happened to be trading with his enemy laner and killed him while Destiny was active. In full vision, never having lost sight, and TF had 0 intention of helping Wu in anyway, Why should he get an assist and gold for that kill?
he wouldn't because he was in full vision and never lost sight...
Agidyne1 votesBecause granting TF gold assists every time he uses Destiny, say He wanted to go bot lane with it and snipe a kill, but at the same time that Wukong just happened to be trading with his enemy laner and killed him while Destiny was active. In full vision, never having lost sight, and TF had 0 intention of helping Wu in anyway, Why should he get an assist and gold for that kill?
Isn't that what happens with Gangplank tho?
Like, you randomly press E and your Ezreal snipes a kill in the enemy jungler and you get an assist even tho you didn't do jackshit?
N3mO061 votesRengar's Ult has the same problem: You gave vision but You don't take an assist
FarRockBF1 votes[{quoted}](name=Walking Titan,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GbepPxLo,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-02-26T14:08:23.636+0000)
Yet, you are not awarded an assist, even tho your team couldnt kill the chimpanzee if it wasn't for your ult.
Why?
Because this can and will be heavily abused. You being TF Farming top and see your team chasing 3 enemies bot and GOING TO KILL THEM ALL? Press "R" and keep farming... BAM!! 3 free assists. Did you help at all? No.
Now don't "but Gangplank" me. Gangplank DOES DAMAGE so he deserves the assist.
DotEleven1 votesBecause this can and will be heavily abused. You being TF Farming top and see your team chasing 3 enemies bot and GOING TO KILL THEM ALL? Press "R" and keep farming... BAM!! 3 free assists. Did you help at all? No.
Now don't "but Gangplank" me. Gangplank DOES DAMAGE so he deserves the assist.
You know who else can do this? Soraka, Karthus (although he could end up just stealing it), Shen. They just ult and are guaranteed to at least get those assists.
Zazusha1 votesits a fickle thing, The chances every TF ult impacts a kill is lower then the chances a Soraka/Karth/GP ult does.
If they could get it to only give assists when it Reveals an Invisible enemy, or one not yet involved in a fight that eventually dies, maybe they could do it.
His debuff isn't a form of CC, damage, or direct Buff to his allies.
Im bad at adc1 votesBecause it would make too much sense, and Riot hate's putting things in League that actually make sense.
Spacesuit Spiff1 votesThere's just no way to make a system that determined whether he deserves the assist or not. Either you get no assists, or you pop your ult to get random assists across the map for no reason.
Partholonian1 votesIf at any time during the relevant time window, TF's ult was the only thing giving vision of the enemy.
Same rule would work for wards, too.
Anyone can get an assist for something that didn't actually change the outcome of the fight because their side was going to get the kill anyway. Soraka can already do it from across the map, even. Is that so bad? In practice I don't think I've seen anyone blow their ult just to get a cross-map assist, only if they think the outcome of the fight is actually in doubt otherwise.
georgiotatos1 votesi always felt that tf is a lose lane win game champ, the vision from destiny can completely turn a fight around, i think he should get an assist for his troubles too, bump
doublelift fg1 votesmeanwhile lee sin shielded karthus while he pressed R and got 3 assists
:)
Fuaztin1 votes[{quoted}](name=doublelift fg,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GbepPxLo,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2015-02-27T12:01:09.604+0000)
meanwhile lee sin shielded karthus while he pressed R and got 3 assists
:)
DOes that work? I wanna know
I do it all the time, bro/broette.