Why do people insist that building defensive tank items is how you counter DPS champs?

TehNACHO··4 votes·764 views

Stuff like Vayne or Kalista

DPS is, as an entire form of damage, designed to counter Tankiness. The vast majority of us are smart enough to know that you should almost never throw an ADC at an Assassin or Burst Mage. The vast majority of us are smart enough to know that you should almost never throw an Assassin at a Tank or Bruiser. Why then, is it so hard for people to realize that trying to optimize tank stats against Vayne is not what you should be doing?

Like, let's rephrase it like this: Throw Malphite against a Talon. Talon will most likely die in a full on fight. Throw Talon against a Kalista. Kalista will most likely explode in an instant. Throw Kalista against a tanky Malphite? It should not be a flipping surprise at this point that Malphite would be kited and die.

Look, I understand if you think any of these incredibly infamous (at least on the boards) champions are overtuned; I think Vayne shouldn't have nearly as many flat stats on top of the percentage damage she does, for example. And I understand that if you are primarily a tank main, you need to put up with these guys as gigantic pains in your backside in most games. I just implore you to understand: Trying to fight Vayne by getting Tankier does not work. Team up with your team's Assassin or Burst Mage (usually your mid laner), lock down the ADC for them, and peel for them when they need help. An even semi-decent Zed or Talon or Syndra will kill that annoying Kalista hopping away from you, or blow up Vayne even as she enters stealth through their aoe. Use your team's strengths against these DPS champs' weaknesses and I assure you that these sort of mobile DPS champs are not nearly as invincible as the boards have brainwashed you to believe.

18 Comments

warpenguin5554 votes

Burst>Sustained DPS>Tankyness>Burst. Something like that

Nekusen4 votes

{quoted} Throw Kalista against a tanky Malphite? It should not be a flipping surprise at this point that Malphite would be kited and die.

unless Malphite uses Q, E or R

TehNACHO1 votes

Tanky Malphite, not AP Malphite.

RisenDarkKnight1 votes

He doesn't need to be tanky. His e is a 50% attack speed slow. Combined with randuins and frozen heart, most adcs have pitiful dps with the e on them. His ult takes them out of the fight for a second and easily comboes into allied damage. And the slow keeps them in position so they can't attack your backline. Sure vayne can still kill a malphite eventually, but his tanky build still counters her a bit. And kalista is not good at killing tanks, period. She is absolutely countered by an armor stacking malphite.

Archon X3 votes

dps is countered by item 3110

gg no re

TehNACHO2 votes

Only to a small extent ^ ^

Most ADCs, if properly kiting, have means to simply power through it.

Archon X1 votes

15% reduced attack speed is not a small extent

700 range - longer than any adc's attack range.

I said no re, why you want re

2-0 already ez

IcyPepper2 votes

As a tank, you shouldn't be trying to 1v1 an ADC who can kite so I agree with you there :P

You use your assloads of cc to get them to focus you, lock them down, and let your burst mage or assassin take care of the rest. Teamwork makes the dream work.

Stiv12342 votes

An even semi-decent Zed or Talon or Syndra will kill that annoying Kalista

Syndra will kill that annoying Kalista

Syndra kill Kalista

Wait what? How do you even hit one single of your spells on a semi-decent Kalista?

TehNACHO2 votes

That was more of the

Team up with your team's Assassin or Burst Mage (usually your mid laner), lock down the ADC for them

Part of the example.

Slamurai Jack2 votes

Because people think that itemizing an enemy champion out of the game is a reasonable expectation. "I should just be able to build full tank and make Vayne useless in teamfights." The counter to DPS has always been burst because DPS builds are inflexible, require several mandatory items, and have little room for defensive items.

Zone of Endless1 votes

Because you build tanky items to survive long enough to lock down priority target and let your team do the rest.

TehNACHO1 votes

Ahh, no I meant when people specifically argue to build tank for the sole purpose of countering champs like Kalista or Vayne, disregarding all other variables.

Ralanr1 votes

I think a lot of people have trouble telling the difference between burst damage and dps damage that isn't DoT.

I know I sometimes don't see the difference in game. I see "OH FUCK THEY HURT" after Vayne destroys a tank in 5 or below seconds (I don't even know if that counts for exaggeration).

Fiveofswords1 votes

but there does need to be some people on your team who are capable of taking some damage, because you have to be able to initiate teamfights. even if they only live for a few second but can distract the enemy damage away from your teams dpsers, this can make a huge difference and is an important role to have on any healthy team composition.

this is a team game. Trying to figure out how to beat one champ with another 1v1 is irrelevant and ridiculous.

TehNACHO1 votes

I think you only read like half the post, given that the second half of the post says essentially exactly what you are preaching.

Be a tank and disrupt the enemy team's burst champs especially, yes. Do everything in your power that your DPS survives, yes. But when fighting against a Vayne, you as a tank champ will rely on your burst carry to take them out.

Dasdi961 votes

A Talon can beat a full tank Malphite if talon builds armor pen, lifesteal, and some crit. A good build for Talon against Malphite is item 3074 item 3142 item 3035 item 3072 item 3031 item 3111

TehNACHO1 votes

Yeah but at that point, Talon is itemizing quite a lot for DPS.

That and the message wasn't necessarily "Talon can't beat Malphite", it was that "burst doesn't normally beat tanks, DPS does"

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