Why Caitlyn is always nerfed when she is pratically one of the worst marksman in the game ?

StormBladeMaster··5 votes·3,288 views

Let's be real, except her range, she has nothing. She has a good dmg in early game but you have to get feed on your opponents, otherwise you are useless in mid game and you aren't the best adc in late.

Most of her dmg in early come from her spells. The Q has a decent dmg but once mid game come, this spell is useless.

Her ulti is useless most of the time because it's a range finisher who can be blocked + don't forget most of time, the target survive with 50-100 hp left. Freaking annoying.

Playing Caitlyn is like playing with a champ who have 2 spells and aa.

Her traps are useful but too much nerfed. Does Riot really needed to make them very visible on bush ? I mean, if lol players are blinds to go in, that not Caitlyn's players problems, so i don't see why you nerf Cait like that on a spell that even a bronze 5 could dogde with a little bit of intelligence.

  • you nerfed her interactions with Runnans because she was op but in fact, she was only viable (because when you play with 2 spells in late game, you need to have good attacks to compensate at least).

She has no range now, everyone can get a item 3094 and have more range. Don't forget every assassins who have dash with bigger range than her AA, what can you do ? Nothing.

A Tristana will be able to escape by pressing R and W. Vayne has her ulti + Q + E... Caitlyn can use her E but that not enough. A Kha'zix will kill you even with this spell. Caitlyn range is annoying in early, after it's just ridiculous. You better have more mobility than range.

Look at Xerath, this guy have a good range but zero mobility. Most of Xerath die 10 times per games because the champ is not safe and is not good. Xerath is weak vs mobility champ (which you meet at every game).

You better take Jinx instead of Caitlyn because even if Jinx dont have escape, she has more range, more dmg. I see somes Jinx use minigun and press AA and makes Pentakill because it's so op. That what you call Hypercarries.

All hypercarries are better than Caitlyn. Tristana, Kog'maw, Vayne, Jinx, Twitch are matchup that Caitlyn can't fight because they destroy her and it's not her range who will save her from them.

Why Caitlyn matchups sucks :

Vs MF : It's lost, MF is better on teamfight, on trades... Can beat her on poke but her's deal more dmg. + She has more mobility (it's better to have + 70 ms than have a little dash, honestly).

Vs Jinx : It's lost, Jinx is the counter of Caitlyn. You can't win on range, on dmg, on nothing. And if you feed her, the game is done.

*Vs Twitch : Okay, Twitch may be one of the easiest matchup for a Caitlyn because he is weak on early. You have to poke, poke poke and never let him farm. That still a lot of job to do but he will still win mid and late game because it's an hypercarry.

Vs Vayne : Let's be clear : Caitlyn is NOT vayne counter ! Riot buffed Vayne many and many times and now, at lvl 6, Vayne can pratically kill a Caitlyn. First she can dogde the Q, if she isnt stupid, she won't go on the W, and your little dash is not enough to escape from her.

Ok you can poke her but without a good support, it's not win ! Also if she isn't bad in game, in mid she will be better than Caitlyn.

VS Xaya : If you expose to poke her, she will use her E and feather. She has better trade, dmg and her ulti will be more useful to survive than your E. Hard MU.

Kog'maw : You can win early but if you don't put him 0/10, he will came back and you will be useless.

Lucian : He has more dmg than you, and he is pretty fast and dangerous. You past most of the game to stay safe than try to poke him because his combo is pretty annoying.

Ezreal : Ezreal is the best matchup for Caitlyn, because he is only made on poking while you have poke and burst. He can't push very fast, he don't have big range, big dmg... Ezreal is probably the only adc where you can have advantage all the game with Caitlyn.

Kalista : She is never played on my elo... I think Cait may win vs her.

Kai'sa : Kai'sa need nerfs to be actually a fair matchup for a lot of adcs. She has too much dmg...

Tristana : Too much safe, Tristana will never dies, she will be better than Cait and she will have better range.

Sivir : Free mana regen from your trap, better at depush, better mobility who will make the advantage of your range dissapear because Caitlyn is very slow and when you have 5 people runnning at 620 movespeed toward you, you can't really escape.

Ashe : Annoying matchup, she has a good range too, she don't have escape but her ulti can be a fcking cancerr. Also, she is impossible to trade for a Caitlyn. She will melt your teammates with her Q in few AA while you will do small dmg.

Jhin : Annoying, i don't like Jhin, i don't understand why riot created this champ. He has more dmg anyways than Caitlyn.

Draven : Okay you can poke him and you are worth it because you are ones of adcs who can survive vs him. But survive don't mean "win". You will never be able to match Draven powers. He is better on teamfight.

Graves : He is played jungle so IDC about him. He looks like a good matchup for Cait because he has a really limited range and Graves dash can be countered by Caitlyn dash so you are safe from him.

Quinn : Quinn is played at top, so IDC. Every quinns are a pure pain when they are feed and gank you every 2s while you top laner shiit on him because he can't do a thing.

Corki : Played at Mid... Saldy because it's one of matchups that i liked because Corki is easy to poke, he don't have that much dmg...

Yasuo : Yes, i saw Yasuos played at ADC role. It's freaking annoying. The windwall make you useless. You don't have enough mobility to escape from him...

I may be overreacting because i love Caitlyn so it's sure im not neutral but i feel like she would need more firepower. If you don't buff her Early, then buff her late or her mid.

When i see Lucians, Kai'sa or Jinx, i wonder why riot nerf Caitlyn. Why ? She has nothing more compared to them except her range. And somes champs can have a better one (hi Tristana, hi Jinx...).

**If she don't win early, is useless. She plays with 2 spells, her W and her E. You play with 2 useless spells in mid late while others adcs plays all with 4 spells. **

How you can nerf and nerf her just because in lvl 1, she can poke you ? That's her job and it's pretty hard to poke correctly, without taking minions dmg, with the other adc who will try to defend and ripost...

**Poke correctly is a matter of skill. And it's should be rewarded ! You shouldnt nerf Caitlyn because people hates her poke because it's hard to poke correctly with her. **

People have to be patient and survive trought early. That all. Is this hard for a Vayne to survive until 6 from a Caitlyn ? After 6, she won. So it's normal if she is getting destroyed before.

That like Teemo in top lane vs Nasus. It's normal that Teemo destroy Nasus in game because he is made for poke. But in teamfight, he is not that useful and mostly, teemos aren't a problem because they can't do a lot in teamfight, they can't really push...

If you make others champs better than Cait on early game where she is supposed to kick asses, how can she be useful ? She can't do her job.

22 Comments

Kaioko5 votes

She's never been a weak late game champion her range ensures that. She has an atrocious mid game and an average early game which is her main problem especially since the introduction of Fleet.

I'm curious to see how the new season will affect her. Lane phase will go longer and tower pushing will be harder/more valuable. It should be a buff to her but the doran shield change may end up causing her early game poke to be useless.

Paroe1 votes

{quoted}

She's never been a weak late game champion her range ensures that. She has an atrocious mid game and an average early game which is her main problem especially since the introduction of Fleet.

I'm curious to see how the new season will affect her. Lane phase will go longer and tower pushing will be harder/more valuable. It should be a buff to her but the doran shield change may end up causing her early game poke to be useless.

Caitlyn is strong in meta's where she can rely on her extreme safety. Caitlyn is also very annoying when shes numerically strong rather than the meta favors her; her traps and her headshot are just... bad mechanics that reward being passive.

She could do with a rework to cement her as either a caster or a long-range marksman... Personally id love her traps being replaced with a toggle that increases attack range and gives %AD, but reduces attack speed with the inverse on the off toggle (reduced range and AD, but increased attack speed). She is meant to be a sniper after all.

Kaioko1 votes

{quoted}

Caitlyn is strong in meta's where she can rely on her extreme safety. Caitlyn is also very annoying when shes numerically strong rather than the meta favors her; her traps and her headshot are just... bad mechanics that reward being passive.

She could do with a rework to cement her as either a caster or a long-range marksman... Personally id love her traps being replaced with a toggle that increases attack range and gives %AD, but reduces attack speed with the inverse on the off toggle (reduced range and AD, but increased attack speed). She is meant to be a sniper after all.

I would agree with that rework since Jhin currently feels like more of a sniper than she does. That being said I don't think she's slated for a rework anytime soon so some easy bandaid fixes like a faster Q and a buff to her base attack speed could go a long way since she is performing poorly.

I will say though that I'd rather wait to see how she performs in the pre-season as the meta shift to less snowball should help her out quite a bit and I don't want to see her overbuffed only to be regutted (let's face it Riot is fully capable of doing so).

saltran1 votes

Personally id love her traps being replaced with a toggle that increases attack range and gives %AD, but reduces attack speed with the inverse on the off toggle (reduced range and AD, but increased attack speed)

So, you want to remove Caitlyn.

Paroe1 votes

{quoted}

So, you want to remove Caitlyn.

No. Caitlyns traps are not what makes her caitlyn. And if anything needed to go in order to allow her some more breathing room in regards to changes, her traps are at the top of that list.

Illabethe1 votes

She's a monster right now. She's never actually been weak. Keep in mind.... she still has all her buffs from the True damage item 3031 meta. To compensate for her loss of the crit multiplier, they buffed headshot, her Q.

V8.9 Headshot Bonus damage to non-champions increased to 100% (+ 100% (+ Infinity Edge item 25%) critical strike chance) AD from 50% AD.

V8.13 - July 3rd Hotfix Headshot Champion headshot damage increased to 50 / 75 / 100% (+ 125% critical strike chance) AD from 50% (+ 100% critical strike chance) AD. Non-champion headshot damage increased to 100% (+ 125% critical strike chance) AD from 100% (+ 100% critical strike chance) AD.

V8.24b Piltover Peacemaker Base damage increased to 50 / 90 / 130 / 170 / 210 from 30 / 70 / 110 / 150 / 190. Reduced damage beyond first enemy increased to 40% from 33%. Ace in the Hole Target range increased to 3500 at all ranks from 2000 / 2500 / 3000.

In other words:

  1. She has 1500 -500 more range on R than Season 7
  2. Q does 20 more damage and is reduced 25% less.
  3. Headshot to minions does 50% + 125% Crit chance more damage 4) Headshot does 0-50% More AD damage + 25% More Crit chance damage to champions.

The last is one of the most significant points to state.

125% Crit chance was to compensate for the True damage. It's still there, and now we have a crit multiplier.


In Season 7, before any of these buffs, I could do a 3300 Crit with Caitlyn. I don't currently play adc much, but I can tell you this: Her damage potential is close to if not greater than that 3300 crit because of current runes, increased Armor Penetration from LDR, and more AD integration into adc items and runes.

I've also got something else to say. On an immobile champ there is literally no escaping the current Caitlyn. I've been fed on Illaoi , had a item 3143 , and ran from a Caitlyn because she had other champs behind her, and although it took her about 20 shots to kill me (because Randuin's decimates the crit damage), she stuck to me like glue.

Mcsquzzy3 votes

Well long ago when she was good, the community wanted her nerfed. Specifically the duration of her traps since they were overwhelming, but riot decided to Nerf everything else until they eventually nerfed the traps thus putting her in her current state today.

MadViking2 votes

What do you expect from Riots balance squad?

I mean we literally see them nerf champions with 40% SoloQ winrates because some pro is able to maximize that champs potential only due to being in active communication with 4 other guys the entire match, otherwise this shit isn't possible and the champion is just MEH and will be dumspter tier.

Secondly Caitlyn doesn't make Riot munnies, so she will stay in the dumpster. Unlike champions like Jhin who literally run around with like 700MS as a ranged champ for 2 seconds after crits and somehow that's balanced. Of course it wouldn't be "balanced" if Riot couldn't sell skins or promote the champ at Esports events.

Noor Sakata2 votes

Cait isn't weak and doesn't need buffs She still crits half of my hp in late game lol champions like her should stay in the gutter

saltran2 votes

She is weak lol, like, I'm not asking for buffs but she is weak.

Noor Sakata2 votes

{quoted}

She is weak lol, like, I'm not asking for buffs but she is weak.

Weak early yes , like most of the champions in the game that are out of the meta but in late game , no body likes facing cait

saltran2 votes

Lategame doesn't matter you know?

Game is decided on early mid game and Cait is awful for both soloQ and pro play.

I cant understand why you wont admit that she's weak.

Speeedy3 votes

how is she not weak? she is definitely one of the worst adc since she doesn't mesh with stormrazors well at all. She has low HP so she dies easier than any adc on the all in. She is only really good till the first back. Soon as you back with her and if you don't have a bf sword its pretty much a lost lane. Then you have to wait till 4-6 items to do damage depending on how far behind you are. Late game she is a hypercarry so that is kinda expected, but twitch tristana vayne can do that also just to name a few. Right now her range does not make up for her low HP. Since I main her she definitely needs some help not to a 50% win rate but like 48-49% is her sweet spot. Since 8.11 the only "buff" she got was her passive correction which just made it not scale off a stat no longer in the game. The OP is correct in most of his matchups since you are playing from behind in almost all of them from the start.

Noor Sakata1 votes

{quoted}

how is she not weak? she is definitely one of the worst adc since she doesn't mesh with stormrazors well at all. She has low HP so she dies easier than any adc on the all in. She is only really good till the first back. Soon as you back with her and if you don't have a bf sword its pretty much a lost lane. Then you have to wait till 4-6 items to do damage depending on how far behind you are. Late game she is a hypercarry so that is kinda expected, but twitch tristana vayne can do that also just to name a few. Right now her range does not make up for her low HP. Since I main her she definitely needs some help not to a 50% win rate but like 48-49% is her sweet spot. Since 8.11 the only "buff" she got was her passive correction which just made it not scale off a stat no longer in the game. The OP is correct in most of his matchups since you are playing from behind in almost all of them from the start.

She is still fine with enchanter supports one of the reasons why she is in a bad spot is that enchanters aren't popular like before She gets mostly matched with Brand etc.. I play her as well ,she is my favorite and most played adc , when she is a good pick " 48% win rate before the adc items rework " she was hella disgusting

StormBladeMaster1 votes

In this meta, you don't have a lategame. And a Vayne feed in late, with R + Q + critic can litteraly damage 75% of your health.

Caitlyn is annoying because she is safe but she don't have any other powers. So you just focus on winning by destroying Nexus instead of chasing her and it's gg.

Noor Sakata1 votes

{quoted}

In this meta, you don't have a lategame. And a Vayne feed in late, with R + Q + critic can litteraly damage 75% of your health.

Caitlyn is annoying because she is safe but she don't have any other powers. So you just focus on winning by destroying Nexus instead of chasing her and it's gg.

Hello ? do we play the same game ? Vayne early is even way much worse than Cait lmao , not to forget , to do anything , Vayne has to tumble in because her range

StormBladeMaster1 votes

This comment was 3 month ago. Now Caitlyn is worse early than Vayne.

Thanks to Vayne buffs and buffs. 50% Q cdr under ulti, Q Cd reduced to 4/3,5/3/2,5/2 instead of 6/5/4/3/2s.

  • Guinsoo who procs Vayne W faster. Now at lvl 3 with an aggresive support like Thresh, Vayne can totally trade Caitlyn.

And don't forget that even if she is not feed and the lane is 0/0/0 for the 2 adcs, the games are so fast that Lategame is at 18 min.

Vayne get Bortk + Guinsoo = Lategame. At 18 min, she begin to roll on everything without counterplay because she has so much possibilities.

As a player of Caitlyn, i can say that with Caitlyn, you must win your lane, you must destroy your opponent, otherwise you are USELESS until you are full build.

Caitlyn is not like Vayne who is actually completely brainless and gain so much strengh by buying 2 items. First, when you play Cait, you must to realize you have 2 useless spells : Your Q who will be useless at 20 min and more and your Ulti in teamfights and in early because you wont have many ad and the target will escape with 10hp.

Vayne on the other side, you just move and attack, basically you do hit and run and i dont find that hard. I play Vayne better than Cait simply because i dont have the pressure to win my lane because i know i will be more effective with time while Caitlyn is a total useless adc on mid game.

HP Crookshanks1 votes

If only her abilities were faster. All of her abilities are really slow and unreliable especially her ult. She has the weakest ult in the game in my opinion.

StormBladeMaster1 votes

[{quoted}](name=HP Crookshanks,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GZ6AR4EF,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-11-14T19:51:16.736+0000)

If only her abilities were faster. All of her abilities are really slow and unreliable especially her ult. She has the weakest ult in the game in my opinion.

Yes, her ulti is useless in a teamfight and very very unreliable. Her Q is also useless in late. Pretty hard to compete against others champs that play with their 4 spells.

ZackTheWaffleMan1 votes

her ult is often better-used if you use it before a fight. if it lands, it is likely to force a squishy out of a fight

Infernape1 votes

650 range at level 1. That's why.

Even then, either Cait needs a slight buff or tweak to her kit, or the other strong marksmen need to be brought down a peg.

I wouldn't mind her Q's cast speed being affected by AS. Using your Q in a fight just tanks your DPS.

StormBladeMaster1 votes

What range ? Vayne have mobility to compensate, Tristana has more range, Jinx has more range, Mf relies on her spells who have more range than cait... Look at Xerath dude, having a big range don't make you safe and unkillable.

650 is nothing ! Cait is weak and if you can AA her with your adc, she will mostly lose because she is made for poke. But you have options to counter poke. You have steal life to make her poke useless. You can have mobility or cc to catch her.

You just have to survive to her poke and it's win. Try to play with a Soraka support, and i can guaranteed you she will be useless.

Most of mages have more range than her on theirs spells. Most of assassins can get to her even with her big range.

Don't forget tanks like Rammus or Malphite who can reach her pretty easy. Amumu too with his Q.

If range was op, then why Vel'koz and Xerath aren't Wining every games ?

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