annie is such bullshit

Chespin2013·Apr 24, 2015·9 votes·5,113 views

Tibbers stun is such a toxic amount of gameplay that shows no counter play and needs to be change. I'm fine with her doing damage but the ability to do that much on her ulti combined with a stun is not fun to play against at all. There is like no counter play to this either nerf her damage on her ult or have passive change for her charges of pyromania. The ability to hold to a point and click stun and not having any downsides to it is unfair gameplay to the enemy and needs to be changed.

42 Comments

FarRockBFApr 24, 201511 votes

Welcome to the League Boards! Today's rants are brought to you by Mr. WTF NoCounterplay.

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Mr. WTF: "Well,

Aatrox so OP jump fukin comes back to life and can dash away; WTH! Ahri ridiculous OP dashes WHILE doing damage 3X in a row WTF OPOP Akali WTF! Building a defensive hextex gives her the ability to dash around and wipe out a whole team WFH Alistar WTF a COW! Amumu Insta-stun whole team while doing AOE damage and a stun dash WTFSMDSOAB!! Anivia Ult freakin drains everyone has stun and a freakin wall and comes back to life WTF Annie OMG fucking insta stun bear Ashe Jesus! Constant slows, free gold, global longest stun in the freakin game - WTH! Azir WTF he does so much damage without ever placing himself in danger! Bard What is this thing? Blitzcrank This hook is fuckin ridiculous. He instantly turns 5v5s into 4v5s. How is this fair Rito?? ...

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http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/133/666/beeker-what-is-this-i-dont-even.gif

Battleforge4LifeApr 24, 20151 votes

{quoted} WTF a COW!

Lolololol

DeloricVIApr 24, 20153 votes

I think you could benefit from finding a more coherent way to say how you feel about Annie. Maybe then people won't downvote you into oblivion.

I personally agree. I hate Annie as a champion. I personally think that having to just stand back as long as she wants to hold onto her stun is a pretty bad strategy to have to use for "counterplay." Annie has better burst than a number of mids, and her kit gives her too many stun opportunities, but what did you mention? Just Tibbers and her point-and-click spell. Perhaps if you compared some parts of her kit to other champions that got nerfed, your argument might hold some more weight. Why haven't I done this? Because I'm a busy guy and am too lazy to sift through patch notes for nerfs on single-target stuns. I presume that if you feel strongly enough about it and really want Annie to change, you wouldn't mind doing a little research :)

WinramsApr 24, 20152 votes

Xerath, Ziggs, Vel'koz, Vlad, Zed, Morg, Lux, Orianna, Malzahar and Kassidan are all counters to Annie.

You need to pay more attention to Annie's animation when her stun is up and ready to use!

StrawberrycocoaApr 24, 20152 votes

Is Zed a counter? I can usually stop a Zed dead in his tracks as Annie by dropping E-W to defend myself and catch him in a stun before he can blink back, then Q before the stun recovers to ensure he takes more trade damage than I do.

Vistha KaiApr 24, 20151 votes

Neither is Vlad. Annie W's, him dumps the rest of the combo, then Vlad MIGHT be able to pool away. 5 seconds later she does the exact same thing, except this time Vlad dies.

Kassadin? You wot? How something as worthless as Kassadin can possibly beat up a non-braindead person playing Annie?

YOLOswagLYFgg420Apr 24, 20154 votes

Half the "counters" you mentioned are CLEARLY not counters. And win percentages will attest to that. Also the other champions, wit the exception of Vel'koz have BARELY an edge over Annie in terms of win percentage (I'm talking all of them being like 50.x%. Annie has the highest pick rate of any mid.

Compare this to the low pick rates of the champions who have a positive win rate against her: Morg, Lux, Ziggs.

As for the other champs, i disagree:

Annie's win rate vs Zed: 55.47% Annie's win rate vs Vlad: 53.32% Annie's win rate vs Ori: 55.18% Annie's win rate vs Mal: 53.09% Annie's win rate vs Kas: 55.78% Annie's win rate vs Xerath: 54.42

To my point, look at how low these gaps are for here "counters": Annie's win rate against Ziggs: 49.48% Annie's win rate against Morg: 49.65% Annie's win rate against Lux: 49.75%

Also an important note to make is that, the more games Annie plays against a champ the higher her win rate goes. A 46.64% win rate against Vel seems really low, until you realize this is only considering 379 games. When you look at the really high win rate against champions like Vlad who are suppose to counter her, with her win rate being a whooping 53% and a lot more games (1159).

Using this source to get my information http://champion.gg/champion/Annie

WinramsApr 24, 20152 votes

Need to know how to play against her........win rates mean shit.

When she has a jungle camping her lane, she will win.

Be a smart player instead of complaining.

If you go with win rates then you're already defeated.

YOLOswagLYFgg420Apr 24, 20154 votes

Explain to me why win rates mean shit? Especially considering the entire ranked system is set up around it.

Edit: And you completely dismissed my argument. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean that I am "complaining" and not a smart player.

Your argument right now is "git gud scrub"

WinramsApr 24, 20152 votes

Win rates mean nothing, because it doesn't break down whether or not if she is getting help from jungle camping her lane. If people playing against her are completely over extending and getting ganked from the jungler. People who are playing a champ they are not comfortable with or experienced with. If the other mid lane was a troll/feeder. She was carried through the game for a win. There are so many probabilities to the percentages of win rates. I will agree she is a really easy and strong ap champ for damage if she is even or ahead of the other team. But she has no mobility (super easy to gank her) and her range is short (needs to be up close which could be costly to her). Its like saying Vieger is garbage/gutted champ because of his win rates. That is because most people dont play him. But for people who play him all the time, he is very devastating and can kill someone with just one combo and completely carry a game. Also he has more CC than Annie.

Maybe try item 3140 has MR and can remove the stun. Or get the summoner spell "Cleanse"

If they nerfed Annie again, she will be one of those champs that sits on the shelf and never played again, like Taric. Then you will most likely complain about some other bursty champ to be nerfed.

Every champ has multiple counters, saying that Annie doesnt have one is obsurded

YOLOswagLYFgg420Apr 24, 20154 votes

But surely those win rates account for the other case where someone who is against Annie is also being camped. Or Annie is completely over extended. It's an all encompassing statistic.

WinramsApr 24, 20151 votes

I am not saying it isn't, and is also a probability. You stated there are no counters, every champ has counters. Win rates mean nothing to me, clearly some champs can not compete 1v1 against others. But knowing how the other champ works and from the first 5-10 minutes of the game on how the other players pattern in playing that champ is a definite benefit of winning your lane. Everything is about timing. Granted you can do everything perfect, but something like a jungle gank can turn your perfect situation into the worst situation for you.

Vistha KaiApr 24, 20152 votes

How Annie-lovers will defend her: 1. You can see when she has passive ready. My answer: How exactly is that a counterplay?

2. She can't farm with spells when she's passive up. My answer: You can get it back up in 6 seconds or 8 seconds (assuming you have exactly 0% CDR) if you don't want to spend ANY mana. Plus unless you want to spend entire laning phase under enemy tower you won't use spells to farm.

3. But mah range es short! My answer: You still outrange everybody's basic attack range, you deny them farm by simply existing. Very fair. Oh, and you have 2 instant AoE damage spells, the other one is point'n'forget. You can't dodge them. It is only for Annie player to be a complete retard and miss.

Annie is low counterplay, low skill floor, low skill cap champion, that is frustrating to play aganist and does stupid amounts of damage (0.8 AP, 0.85 AP, 0.8 AP + 0.2 AP for the next 45 seconds. Hell even her "defensive" ability deals 0.8 AP, if you AA her 4 times.), while having one of the best non-ultimate utility mechanic in the game.

kureransuApr 24, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Tibbers stun is such a toxic amount of gameplay that shows no counter play and needs to be change. I'm fine with her doing damage but the ability to do that much on her ulti combined with a stun is not fun to play against at all. There is like no counter play to this either nerf her damage on her ult or have passive change for her charges of pyromania. The ability to hold to a point and click stun and not having any downsides to it is unfair gameplay to the enemy and needs to be changed.

the down side is that she can't cast anymore spells if she wants to stun you with her ult, and her ult is an AOE skill shot. didn't see there was a second page lol. i don't have that much issue with annie. her range is obnoxious, but she's managable.

mvargusApr 24, 20152 votes

Oh, it has downsides in that Annie can't farm as well when its up, but that's not the only thing.

Personally I find that I enjoy seeing the other team take Annie mid. Sure she's capable of being a great lane bully and you can't group together because she can "tibbers stun" the whole team if you gather into a group.

HOWEVER,

Annie is squishy Annie's stun is one shot and then down for a short time Annie is dead if you dive her

I've found that if the other team takes Annie and I'm jungling I take Amumu and just make sure to visit midlane early and often. Annie is one of the most gankable midlaners because of he squishiness. You just hit an Amumu Q and start hitting. Even if she dropped a tibbers stun on you, your midlaner can almost always finish her quickly.

That is actually one of the bigger counterplays for her. She doesn't have escapes like a Zed, Kat or LeBlanc does so ganks work against her. Get a few early and while she'll still be annoying you can keep her from dominating the midgame.

Hinro HonatoApr 24, 20151 votes

Leona and amumu send their regards.

LintheApr 24, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hinro Honato,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GMb55VOY,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-04-24T18:30:40.764+0000)

Leona and amumu send their regards.

Yea. But I never want to see amumu get nerfed. He is so depressed already. That might send him over the edge.

YOLOswagLYFgg420Apr 24, 20152 votes

Leona and amumu offer HALF the damage that Annie does (conservative estimates), and Amumu has to be in your team to ulti, and it is possible to dodge Leona's cc. No one is complaining about Leona's CC because it doesn't feel like "well Leona has her ult and flash up, guess our whole team is going to die and there is nothing we can do about it" like with Annie.

Hinro HonatoApr 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Leona and amumu offer HALF the damage that Annie does (conservative estimates), and Amumu has to be in your team to ulti, and it is possible to dodge Leona's cc. No one is complaining about Leona's CC because it doesn't feel like "well Leona has her ult and flash up, guess our whole team is going to die and there is nothing we can do about it" like with Annie.

I don't know about leona but if you build amumu like you do annie the damage isn't all that different. Amumu's is possibly higher depending on the enemy teams locations. The same can be said for annie. Amumu however has a higher range on ult, a longer stun, more cc, and %hp aoe.

The average annie build does have more damage in it but it doesn't negate the possibility of amumu nuking people.

j jApr 24, 20151 votes

When u know people new they all ^^^^^^^

LOLOLOLOLOL

IcyPepperApr 24, 20151 votes

that shows no counter play

It has a short range, enough that even Zed can outrange it.

And you can buy item 3102 if she does the flash+Tibbers stun.

FHMarshyApr 24, 20151 votes

Tibbers is a skill shot, and has a really short range.

Vistha KaiApr 24, 20156 votes

There is no skill in landing a spell that's an instantaneous AoE with 890 range.

Garens HaremApr 25, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Tibbers is a skill shot, and has a really short range.

AHAHAHAHAAH

StrawberrycocoaApr 24, 20151 votes

Way to just copy-paste every other thread bitching and whining about Annie.

The ability to hold to a point and click stun and not having any downsides to it is unfair gameplay to the enemy and needs to be changed.

How is it unfair? Tell you what, if Annie needs to lose her stun reservation for the sake of "fair", then every Assassin should lose their mobility and safety net skills. Beecause being able to dive burst and flee to safety before the opponent can properly react is exactly as "unfair" as Annie being able to keep a stun ready for dealing with her enemies.

Also short range, 5 minute cooldown on Flash-Tibbers plays, makes it highly visually obvious that her stun is up and ready thus easily avoided, incapable of using any damage spells while holding her stun so she has no waveclear and drastically reduced farming while holding it, low move speed and inherent mobility. If Annie can GET in range to stun you, you deserved it for allowing her to get that close.

Vistha KaiApr 24, 20152 votes

The biggest basic attack range a mage can have is 625, which ironically belongs to Annie. Next one is Anivia with 600, then Zyra with 575. Nearly ever other mage has either 550 or 525 basic attack range.

Annie's Desintegrate and Incinerate have 625 range. Tibbers has practical range of 890.

Annie needs 6 seconds to prime her passive if is allowed to last kit things with Desintegrate. At level 1 with 0 mana cost. The only champion who can theoretically have a stun ever 6 seconds at level 1 is Twisted Fate. Except it's single target and has 525 range. Irelia has situational stun ever 8 seconds, but it's also single target and melee range.

TL;DR Let me just go AFK, because Annie has her passive up.

MartyrofsandApr 25, 20151 votes

You are aware that 625 spell range is roughly 525 AA range right? Meaning TFs stun is the same range as Annies. Also if Annie has W at level 1 she doesn't have Q which means she can't have her stun every 6 seconds. Really I've seen grasping at straws but this is just a special kind of stupid.

Vistha KaiApr 25, 20151 votes

In case of Annie, I didn't specify if ability is at level 1 or if champion is at level 1.

MartyrofsandApr 25, 20151 votes

The only champion who can theoretically have a stun ever 6 seconds at level 1 is Twisted Fate. Except it's single target and has 525 range.

Um Annie can't have an AoE stun up every 6 seconds at level 1, that is exactly what you where getting at with this comment, and my response is neither can Annie. I also pointed out the range of Annie's spells will be roughly the same as TFs pick a card stun since his goes off of his AA, which will be 525, and Annie's goes off of her 625 spell range which ~525 AA range because of how they are calculated, IE they are pretty much the same except TFs is restricted by a single CD and Annie's is a spells she has to cast and will only get it after 6 seconds if she is able to last hit a minion right as it comes off CD. As a guy who plays a lot of Annie that doesn't really happen in the early game.

Vistha KaiApr 25, 20152 votes

As a guy who plays a lot of Annie that doesn't really happen in the early game.

It might be due to the fact you play her as support.

I also pointed out the range of Annie's spells will be roughly the same as TFs pick a card stun since his goes off of his AA, which will be 525, and Annie's goes off of her 625 spell range which ~525 AA range because of how they are calculated,

Skillshots - which includes conic AoE, such as Incinerate and AoE, such as Tibbers - are calculated the same way basic attacks are calculated - from edge to edge. My point of outranging every other mage's basic attack range stands.

MartyrofsandApr 25, 20151 votes

I play Annie as both support and AP mid lane, as well as AP on TT. As I said I play a lot of Annie.

As for her ranged no your point does not stand. Log into a bot game, scroll over Annie's AA, her Q, and her W from the fountain using the makers on the ground as a reference and you will notice that inspite of all of those abilities having the same listed range both the Q and W have less range than her AA.

Vistha KaiApr 25, 20151 votes

[blah blah blah snap] both the Q and W have less range than her AA.

My point of outranging every other mage's basic attack range stands.

MartyrofsandApr 25, 20151 votes

And that AA range means what in mid lane? Are you going to tell me you lost to Annie because she tickled you with her AAs while you did nothing?

Tell you what, load into a game as Annie against a Xerath/Ziggs/Orianna/Syndra/etc and then come back here and tell all about just how good her range is. About the 10th time you die while being unable to actually hit your opponent you will realize just how silly complaining about her AA range is.

Vistha KaiApr 25, 20151 votes

If Annie is sufficiently aggressive this is what happens:

Xerath will farm with spells and go oom after 3 casts. Can't proc his passive, because he'll eat a combo from Annie without couterplay.
Ziggs will farm with spells and also go oom, except after 6 spells.
Syndra will be able to stand her ground aganist Annie for the most part, then get bursted at level 6, trading a kill for kill at best.
Orianna will... dunno, to be honest. I'd say she will go oom too.

Also, at any point of laning phase Annie will have more mana than the enemy she is against.

PS. I never implied her AA range is the problem, you just make up things now. I said her low counterplay within the range, doesn't permit people to even farm without using spells.

LintheApr 24, 20151 votes

What is this thing?? OMG.. tears....

wRZcGiWq62Apr 24, 20151 votes

So tired of people QQing about annie, lol easily counterable and all you have to do is not stack up and shes worthless.

Extreme TrollerApr 24, 20151 votes

op is already 3 years late.

you know it's tank metagame ? and annie ulti does 3-4% of hp of tanks ?

YOLOswagLYFgg420Apr 24, 20151 votes

People complain about Zed, cause "OH NOS I NEDZ T OBUY ZHONYAS OR QSS. DAS NOOT CUNTERPLAY!! DATS LEIK STOOPID NED TU CHNGE BUILD NO MANAZ NOOZ"

Then half the people argue "NOOB BRNZE SCRUBS, JSTU BY item 3102 TO BEET ANNIE"

It's just ironic that people tend to see one argument as "not counter play", while they use the EXACT same argument for people not knowing how to counter a champion with their build. I can almost guarantee that someone will come in here with that post "just buy item 3102 "

On a more serious note, I agree with OP for a couple of reasons. It is really not fun to play against. It just feels frustrating that so much burst could exist on an ability that offers CC. It is seriously like old Ryze. It isn't just by chance that Annie has survived through like, what, 3 or 4 different metas now? People defend Annie like she is a pigeon with a broken wing "MUH RANGE ES SO SHORT", and pretend that a free kill every 5 minutes is like some crazy long cooldown. They don't even argue that flash ult is broken, just "cooldowns". When in reality most annie players, especially supports make summoner CDR a vital part of her kit meaning flash tibbers is realistically up every three-and-a-half to four minutes.

And assassins as a role, are designed to quickly kill 1 person. Some of you have qualms with Kat over this, and you would have good arguments, but their mobility is part of that design. What's Annie's role? To CC the entire team, a utility mage perhaps? Possibly, but that does not justify her massive damage. Or is it to burst the entire team? Well then that does not account for her large amount of CC. And using range is a cop out when you have an ability that literally can't miss. So it should be one or the other.

And the "you deserve it argument" is like saying, if Zed ult'd you, you deserved it for not being to close to your support with cc. It's a terrible argument akin to the "git gud scrub". YOU ARE BASICALLY SAYING, DON'T LIKE ANNIE? WELL JUST DON'T GO NEAR HER... Like does anybody else see the huge problems with that? It was the same with Ryze, "lol ryze isn't OP just don't go anywhere near him, try to kill him, or contest any objectives while he is around." Same with Annie, except you ad the 3 minute flash-tibbers caveat.

You can't QSS or Zhonya's a flash-tibbers.

Vistha KaiApr 24, 20152 votes

Technically you can QSS Tibbers' stun, but before you do it Annie dumps whole combo on your face and you are dead anyway.

LadyRenlyApr 24, 20151 votes

"MOBILITY CREEP IS REAL"

"HOW DARE YOU INTERRUPT OUR MOBILITY ANNIE, NERF HER"

femméApr 25, 20151 votes

does walking away from the champion count as counterplay? no serious question is that even considered reasonable counter play....because it's pretty easy to do that against annie.