Just look at pyke
His Q grabs, and slows Damage doesn't stick to him because of his grey health sustain. He gets a fuck ton of stats per level re-settable execute A stun, mobility stealth
Its not just pyke Akali...
I don't want to type out all or even most of the new champs but yea... they have such overloaded kits.
TehNACHO30 votesI believe they accidentally stumbled upon it with Yasuo, but started doing it very intentionally with Camille, iirc the dev posts.
https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2016/12/dev-on-evolving-the-laning-fighter/
The short version is, you can't have a "simple" melee fighter without them being broken when they're strong and useless when they're weak. So instead, throw as many factors into your melee fighter as you can to make them multi-dimensional, shave off the excess over time, and have a champion that is capable of doing a lot of things so they aren't nearly as binary as older generation melee carries.
Problem is the design team and the balance team are two totally different teams, and what was planned to be intentional overcompensation by the design team turned into a nightmare by the balance team.
GigglesO1 votesProblem is the design team and the balance team are two totally different teams, and what was planned to be intentional overcompensation by the design team turned into a nightmare by the balance team.
Could I get a longer post on this portion of your comment.
Would you say that its fueled by miscommunication between teams, favoritism or Maybe I'm just misunderstanding where you are coming from when saying this.
Póppy Chulo3 votesI think it has to do with error on both sides of the team. While the design team is trying to make a cool new champ that is original to the game, the balance team wants to keep these things too, and their "uniqueness". I am not sure if they work together/communicate on some things.
I personally dont have an issue with overloaded kits, i do have an issue when balance team refuses to nerf or remove some parts of a champs kit because design team wanted to put them in. (Irelia could easily lose the attack speed scaling on her passive to be balanced)
Also incase you didnt notice, design team when they rework a champ they try to keep all the good things a champ had and shove it into the rework with even more good things, except urgot he got a new concept. (Irelia passive gives her all the important stats she used to have, and MANY more dashes than before)
Carnicore2 votesThis pretty much nails it on the head. If you look at Pyke, there's purpose to all his abilities.
Enormous sustain so that he can trade in a 2v2 lane despite his disadvantages (squishy and melee).
Q and E have the CC they do because he's meant to be a support, and therefore needs utility.
He gets high base stats because that's all the health he's ever gonna have. You could give him worse base stats, but that's not really necessary as long as he's building squishy assassin items.
Mobility, stealth, and a resetting execute ultimate are so that he can fulfil an assassin gameplay fantasy. These are the features that distinguish him from other supports.
Is it challenging to balance? Of course, he's an unusual champion that tries to be 2 somewhat conflicting things - an assassin and a support. But the payoff is that he adds variety to the champion pool and a fun alternative to conventional supports.
Hrolfgord1 votesas a support main I loathe Pyke because hes designed to be a "support assassin" you can bring an assassin into support for the high risk high reward play style, but now you have this same idea that essentially removes the high risk part of trying to play an assassin support
Moody P19 votesbecause most posters bitch and whine when simple champions are viable above gold
GigglesO15 votesPositioning is harder than instantly dashing to the enemy and killing them though.
Positioning is harder than being able to hit a button and instantly reduce damage taken by half.
Positioning is harder than having an execute tied to a dash, that lets you dash to more targets if you kill them.
SettDownShutUp2 votesA dash that lets you heal, apply on hit effects and obtain stacks to a passive that gives you bonus attack speed and shield shredding that can be applied by said dashes.
...yeah not over-cluttered in the slightest.
GigglesO5 votes...yeah not over-cluttered in the slightest.
Best thing I saw was that someone argued that all of the extras were "negligible" to the kit....
If they are negligible why do they have them in the first place.
HopeStartsWithU9 votesIt is for balance reasons. Sounds stupid but it is the only logical way to actually balance champs. If simple designed champs are good that means that they are strong in a natural way since the player doesn't have to use much brain to "master" them or abuse them. So what do they do? Add a lot of situational stuff that can mean one outcome or another.
Let's take a look at Pykes Q: To make him a viable support he NEEDS a reason to BE a support hence the hook. A gap close which doesnt deal much amount of damage. But if he is close to an enemy the hook doesn't make much sense with its low damage. So they gave him a melee ranged Q for damage output. For what Pyke is his Q makes absolutely sense. His entire kit deals low damage and to compensate that, they gave him an execute ult. He just needs tuning for his healing and his execution and he would be fine.
You don't have to accept it since the balanced team has sometimes 0 ideas to balanced but it makes sense why some champs are overloaded. Akali didn't even change that much except for true stealth. She would be the same abomination even if turrets would reveal her but nobody seems to realise that. In fact the old Akali was worse because she was so "simple"
Stre3tJimmy3 votesOk, agreed that pyke's q long and short channel makes sense in it's core but why does the long channel that pulls also slows? This makes no sense. Also, "his entire kit deals low damage? This is a support that's designed to be an assassin and since supports are low income his base stats are actually pretty high. The execute makes no sense when he rushes lethality against an adc which makes him almost deal true damage anyway. All it does is remove counterplay mid-late game. His mobility is overloaded in the botlane (where he's designed to be) and his survivability with this passive means that the only way to counter a high damage mele champ - poke him out - is basically useless unless you pretty much take half his health in one engage. Pyke's kit as a concept offers no protection to the botlaner and so is only viable if you either give him damage or pick potential - even his cc is pretty much only an engage and not really as a defence tool.
But lets go back to talking about the general problem: both akali and irelia have recived new status effects (shrouded and disarmed) with their kits that are already pretty busted with high damage and mobility. Akali has an execute ult, healing, scaling with both ad and ap (making gunblade a must giving her more healing), no mana and high mobility. Irelia has stupid high mobility, damage reduction that cannot be interupted, a stun, an ult that slows, on hit, shield shredding and as with her passive and her spammable mobility applies on hit. Lets compare that to an older champ: Oriana has a ball. She has no real mobility, hard cc only in her ult, a speedup/slow that's nice but not amazing and a weak shield. This champion has an identity: control mage, nice damage, ball. She is not overloaded with stupid mobility, healing or hard cc. This is a champion that, possible number balancing issues aside, is good. The problem with overloading a kit is that balancing it becomes impossible: either it's op or you diale back the numbers until it's unplayable. In any case you either haclve an op champ that's unhealthy to the game (because it's not fun) or you might as well have not released the champ.
HopeStartsWithU2 votesCan't say why it slows, maybe because the hook doesn't pull that far, I think that is the reason and I am not gonna defend Irelia tbh she really is busted from within her kit lol.
But the thing is Akali really is just frustrating when she uses her shroud. Every bit of movement she does is predictable and makes sense. Her W is nothing but a mini game with you losing most of the time which makes the frustrating part. Her laning is arguably dogshit and her healing is the only way to survive that part. The healing is restricted enough if you ask me: She either wave clears and runs out of energy real quick or she waits more than a few seconds to reach 180 energy and heal that tiny bit of health just to lose a lot of energy again which makes her vulnerable. Until gunblade her healing does suck.
I don't like the comparison between Ori and those champs tbh because Ori is just a completely different champ. A fair comparison would be Azir and Ori since Azir shares a really similar playstyle while being a bit more risky(going in and ulting/insec).
My point is that there is a difference between frustrating and OP. Ori doesn't have to be strong but when she is good or at least decent in the meta she is a pain in the ass. She is too safe and has too much control in fights and becomes really hard to catch with all that self peel she has (let's not talk about her insane wave clear combined with her insane burst). That's why I would compare her to Azir. The only difference is that Azir has a dash which makes him harder to catch and that Azirs soldiers feel more oppressive than a floating ball, after all Azir is meant to be a DPS mage.
EDIT: what i forgot about is that pyke actually has good base stats so he can deal damage but fall off hard so he doesn't make his move to midlane or even top/jungle. Just like zyra and brand are supports thanks to their base stats same applies to pyke. To make the gold share work and actually be a support means that an execute is actually really reasonable. Right now the numbers are too high for the execute and his healing is a bit annoying but thats it.
GigglesO1 votes"she either wave clears and runs out of energy real quick "
But she doesn't because she has good energy regen, and her pool gives her energy. So you can't even punish her for fucking up.
Energy champions used to be balanced around the idea that you get x number of spells in this duration. You get +1 if you do well and meet a condition, and other than that you should be out of energy if you spam.
Akali. Hurrrr Durrr I went invisible +energy to fight you with.
HopeStartsWithU3 votesAnd then she doesn't have a shroud to stay safe for a while or avoid ganks or w/e? Also one rotation on Akali is pretty much her using Q, ult and her aa since her E and W doesnt deal any damage. You can exaggerate as much as you want but it is facts that she either has to waveclear and run out of energy OR to play safe and sustain. And if you really think that she has good energy regen you really should look up how much energy 2 Qs take in early stages and how much energy she gets back to heal up.
She isn't balanced but you can don't have to make a big deal out of it. She is after all garbage right now if you look at her winrate. And dont come to me with "winrate hurr durr" every time some champ is busted people pull out that "55% winrate hurr durr" shit out.
GigglesO2 votesBut she just negated your whole "low energy argument"
I can trade with shen or kennen when they have low energy.
Akali just presses a button and gets it back so she can fight, or sit there making it so you can't punish her for running out of energy.
HopeStartsWithU3 votesYes and I said when Akali presses W just to restore energy she won't have her shroud anytime soon and thus only have a certain amount of energy left to trade. She didn't negate shit.
Idk how long you play the game but pushing in the lane and roaming or just pushing in and pressuring on the turret is punishing enough and that since ages. You really dont have to kill the akali to have a lead. Zoning her is enough. Same applies to Zed using his W early game with its huge ass CD, same goes for Shen wasting his shield passive and same goes for Kennen using up too many abilities for the sake of waveclear. Its called looking out for opportunities.
Her energy restoration isnt the problem. Its the invisible part. No need to exaggerate like that to make a point.
I recommand you playing other champs than Morde for a while since its preseason. Starting with Akali would help you a lot to understand certain things. Maybe you heard all that stuff from Hashinshin the guy who talked shit on Viktor and played him to realise that Viktor wasn't as braindead as he thought.
GigglesO2 votesLol Pushing in a lane with this current damage fiesta is a death sentence. How the fuck are you supposed to push past midlane without a jungler up your ass?
The reality is that that akali isn't spamming nearly as much as you give her credit for, and she still has a free escape that gives her energy which lets her dash even further away.
Its not a braindead argument, its a she has too many tools argument. Her shroud should cost energy and be part of her power budget.
Again, my argument isn't that they are brain dead, its that they have more tools at their disposal.
HopeStartsWithU3 votesI know exactly what your actual argument was but with further discussion you tend to the direction of saying "she is braindead" thats what i get from your posts. I pointed out every possibilty when playing against her and why she isn't as oppressive as people say or why her shroud isnt as op as everyone says. Her tools are all justified except for the true stealth.
She had before her rework unlimited gap closer and escapes and sustain even better than this. In fact except for the true stealth not much has changed. She still has sustain, she still can be invisible and she still has dashes. At least now she has counterplay for her ult, for her point and click Q. Now she also has to play around her passive to actually get shit done.
If some tools are unnecessary Riot would remove them and as an example we have Azir as a whole and several Ekko changes.
Pyke just has number problems and thats it. Everything else is unnecessary circle jerk.
H1de on blue3 votesIt is for balance reasons. Sounds stupid but it is the only logical way to actually balance champs.** If simple designed champs are good that means that they are strong in a natural way since the player doesn't have to use much brain to "master"** them or abuse them. So what do they do? Add a lot of situational stuff that can mean one outcome or another.
It's literally the opposite of that in most cases though.
chipndip13 votes[{quoted}](name=H1de on blue,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GJENtAeW,comment-id=000100000000000000000001,timestamp=2018-12-17T17:19:38.555+0000)
It's literally the opposite of that in most cases though.
Not really
GigglesO2 votesYea it is, the more tools at your disposal the less you have to think about what you are doing. The more value you get out of one skill the easier it is to use as well.
chipndip13 votesYea it is, the more tools at your disposal the less you have to think about what you are doing.
No, that isn't how that works AT ALL.
The comparison between Garen and Camille isn't "Camille is a small brain champion to play because she's more multi-dimensional". It's that "Garen as a champion is outright shit, and if you're going to make a sturdy house out of shit, it's going to be a much harder task than actually using bricks".
You don't "think less" with less tools. Binary champions simply don't achieve, regardless of how much you think. Plenty of simple champs can and have been strong in the past and now. Stop being a Gameplay-type poster.
GigglesO2 votesNo, that isn't how that works AT ALL.
The comparison between Garen and Camille isn't "Camille is a small brain champion to play because she's more multi-dimensional". It's that "Garen as a champion is outright shit, and if you're going to make a sturdy house out of shit, it's going to be a much harder task than actually using bricks".
So dashing ontop of me, instantly stunning and dealing a fuck ton of damage, dealing all of that damage again as true damage 1.5 seconds later, and then forcing me to stay in melee range while having superior in combat damage and tank stats makes it harder to play?
I don't think you understand how hard it is to actually run at someone with garen. He is a completely different champion when he has his flash up and can Flash Q E R.
When flash isn't up hes peelable, something I can't even really say about camille.
You don't "think less" with less tools.
You also say it yourself. The less tools you have the more you have to think about how or what you are doing.
Its like needing a wrench but having a hammer. You really have to think how you can use a hammer to over come needing a wrench, but if you have the hammer and wrench you don't have to think at all.
chipndip11 votesSo dashing ontop of me, instantly stunning and dealing a fuck ton of damage, dealing all of that damage again as true damage 1.5 seconds later, and then forcing me to stay in melee range while having superior in combat damage and tank stats makes it harder to play?
No.
Properly utilizing these components consistently in a game environment that isn't going to wait for you to dash onto and off of a wall, or for your Q to charge, or for you to aim your W...that's the hard part.
Garen literally just presses a button and applies it directly where it hurts. There's no nuance to Q, or E, or R, or his passive. His W's the only thing that, to the VERY least, demands a bit of timing for maximum output. Just because Garen's garbage doesn't mean he's harder to play. It's just harder to make something meaningful out of his easy as fuck game play. I was a Sona main for 3 years, with 2.5 million mastery on her, not including time I spent playing her in season 5 before they even added masteries to track it with. I don't say this stuff because I'm some CT champ player. I say it because it's simply true. Whether that makes you mad or glad is up to you.
I don't think you understand how hard it is to actually run at someone with garen.
About the same difficulty as running at someone with anyone else: It isn't. At least, the action in and of itself isn't. Once again, the price you pay for having an overly binary and simple kit is not having the means to apply yourself as efficiently as you'd need to in today's League of Legends.
When flash isn't up hes peelable, something I can't even really say about camille.
And? Don't be a baby. Either play someone that can gap close or figure it out yourself.
You also say it yourself. The less tools you have the more you have to think about how or what you are doing.
Well yeah, the worse your champ is, the more you have to put in to make them work. Not because they're harder to play, but because it's harder to make anything meaningful out of shit. Garen's a load of shit.
Think of it like this: Which is easier to operate between a bicycle or a tricycle? Obviously the tricycle since it's pretty dang impossible for it to tilt over and fall, so people that don't know how to ride a bike can ride a tricycle instead.
Now which one would be easier to win a race with? Obviously the bicycle. The tricycle is easier to pilot, but it's a shitty tool for winning a race due to its design. Garen is a tricycle. Other top lane champs are bicycles. Don't get mad because you like tricycles. Get a bicycle.
GigglesO1 votesNo.
Properly utilizing these components consistently in a game environment that isn't going to wait for you to dash onto and off of a wall, or for your Q to charge, or for you to aim your W...that's the hard part.
Umm, go watch the champion spotlight video. It showcases her ability to dash very far, and make those plays. That is her kit. You also don't even need to use your W to kill someone.
Garen literally just presses a button and applies it directly where it hurts.
If garen gets slowed at all it completely negates his ability to do anything. Give garen a screen wide gap closer and we will talk about how much better than he is than camille.
Think of it like this: Which is easier to operate between a bicycle or a tricycle? Obviously the tricycle since it's pretty dang impossible for it to tilt over and fall, so people that don't know how to ride a bike can ride a tricycle instead.
I'd actually like to argue that the tricycle has more tools, and therefore is easier to use because it has that extra tool (tire). Camille is the champion with the extra tools, not garen.
Now which one would be easier to win a race with? Obviously the bicycle. The tricycle is easier to pilot, but it's a shitty tool for winning a race due to its design.
You blow on garen and he falls down. You blow on camille and she stays upright because she has that extra tire.
Edit: I'd like to also mention that Tricycles can function with one less tire. Hell even bicycles can function with one less tire.
I'd also like to make the argument that you are arguing between a bicycle and a unicycle where garen is the unicycle and doesn't have all the extras. Camille can function without her dash. She can function without her extra tires. Take away garens 1 single tire and he isn't going anywhere.
chipndip11 votesUmm, go watch the champion spotlight video. It showcases her ability to dash very far, and make those plays. That is her kit. You also don't even need to use your W to kill someone.
If garen gets slowed at all it completely negates his ability to do anything. Give garen a screen wide gap closer and we will talk about how much better than he is than camille.
I'd actually like to argue that the tricycle has more tools, and therefore is easier to use because it has that extra tool (tire). Camille is the champion with the extra tools, not garen.
You blow on garen and he falls down. You blow on camille and she stays upright because she has that extra tire.
Edit: I'd like to also mention that Tricycles can function with one less tire. Hell even bicycles can function with one less tire.
I'd also like to make the argument that you are arguing between a bicycle and a unicycle where garen is the unicycle and doesn't have all the extras. Camille can function without her dash. She can function without her extra tires. Take away garens 1 single tire and he isn't going anywhere.
Honestly, hey...it's your life, not mine.
If I can't tell you how it is, no one's going to convince you. People that play super 1-dimensional champs tend to get in their feelings about more mobile counter-parts all the time. It's been explained many-a-time, and it's no one's fault that you refuse to accept it.
A champ like Garen is only allowed to be so much by design because he's been type-set to teaching people how to play the game on a base level, similar to how tricycles aren't designed to win races, but rather to help kids ride around until they learn how to ride real bikes. You don't give a new player Camille or Irelia or LeBlanc to learn the game with. You give them Annie and Garen and Lux. If you don't want to ride tricycles, pick a bicycle. If you want to keep playing mental gymnastics about how hard it is to dump a no-condition, point-n-click rotation on someone, by all means continue to do so, but you're only fooling yourself.
chipndip12 votesThats not true at all. I just started playing with a new player, and they asked me what to do if they wanted to be good at the game. I said just learn a new champion, or akali/irelia.
Guess who their main is... neeko...
Its also not that garen can't be good in higher elo's, its that he can't be good without also stomping low mmr players. Its the same reason why yi, shaco, and etc can't be good.
Shaco IS good in high elo and has been for as long as I can remember.
As for the rest...aight, that's why Garen's not allowed to be good in high elo.
Carnicore3 votesNo. If you only have a mallet, then you'll just hammer everything because that's all a mallet is good for. No thought goes into it. If you have 5 different tools though, suddenly you have all kinds of possibilities what you can do, and you have to figure out the best process for the task at hand. If you continue to hammer everything, then you won't use the toolkit to its full potential.
Look at an Irelia highlight reel and compare it to a Garen montage, and tell me which took more skill to make.
GigglesO2 votesJust hammering things doesn't make it work though. If I have less tools than I can't do what I need compared to those that have more tools.
Carnicore4 votesNot true. Continuing the metaphor, Garen has a bigger, heavier mallet than Irelia that can mash things that her mallet is too small and weak for.
GigglesO2 votesBut thats the thing, you are trying to open a door. Irelia has a key in her kit, garen still just has a hammer.
UnboundHades2 votesthat still proves his point tho, the garen will just hit the door with his hammer while the irelia would use her key to do it instead of trying to brute force it with a hammer
GigglesO2 voteswhat you aren't grasping is thats the advantage having more on your kit does for you.
Just because the hammer is easier to wield doesn't mean it will ever open the door. He needs a bigger hammer just to compete with the key.
BestPudgeNA1 votesNot true. Continuing the metaphor, Garen has a bigger, heavier mallet than Irelia that can mash things that her mallet is too small and weak for.
I mean i don't know what game you're playing but Irelia's mallet is much bigger and she also has a saw and drill.
But i think you're cherry picking champs. Better comparison would be Old Akali vs New Akali or Old Irelia vs New Irelia. Neither of these champs lost their mallet, they were just given other tools to go along with their mallets. So now instead of trying to figure out how the hard task of how you can build a shed with Just a mallet, they now take the easy route because they have a whole bunch of new tools for the job that make it easier.
HopeStartsWithU3 votesNo it isn't. Jax, old Darius, old Fiora, Garen, Wukong, Ahri, Ezreal. And those are just examples. Garen was always in the gutter for high elo players because his kit makes it too hard to balance without breaking him in low elo.
Jax doesn't even need an explanation.
Old Darius was so straightforward in lane dominance that he NEEDED those extra changes to function as a bruiser.
Old Fiora doesn't need any explanations either.
Wukong can't be buffed because he would oneshot anything and everything (look at his Q base damage at lvl 1).
Ahri has the most straightforward kit for a midlaner and had several changes because of the balance problems and identity crisis she had.
Ezreal literally breaks at least one item per season.
Those are just examples as said above. There are countless more champs. Look at Singed the MS he got helped him even get into pro play without breaking him completely. Those changes give champs certain roles to fulfill. The balance team is doing changes based on popularity and esports.
I know what you mean, but some "extras" in kits are just there for balancing.
Let's take Yasuo shield for an example. Easy to pop (with an AA) and compensated to have low base stats. Like the champ or not he is balanced in times BUT ALWAYS FRUSTRATING.
If your going to combine her passive and her Q of course it's going to sound overloaded.
Her passive is she gets attack speed and shield shred for attacking enemies.
Her Q is she dashes and heals, which applies on hit effects.
Yes Irelia has issues but you can do better than that.
SettDownShutUp2 votesA targeted dash that lets you heal, apply on hit effects and obtain stacks to a passive that gives you bonus attack speed and shield shredding that can be applied by said dashes since marked targets reset the cooldown that also RESETS ON KILL.
....Hey, you're right. I COULD do better. Thanks for believing in me <3
Arakadia3 votesYour argument is just as flawed and poorly thought out. But I suppose I shouldn't have expected much from you after your first post.
SettDownShutUp1 votesHope for nothing and you're never disappointed. I'm also just a bit embittered right now.
LordGeovanni2 votesPike has none of that except the exicute thing. Pike has to position well To get his E off and his E second part is delayed and easily dodgeable. And pykes Q has wind up. Its not like Lissandra and arhi which have a bunch of diffrent stuff just like pike but they ranged and instant cast.
GigglesO1 votesHis E is also a free ass escape.
LordGeovanni2 voteseither he's using it as engage or excape not both.
Hotarµ5 votesHis Q grabs, and slows Damage doesn't stick to him because of his sustain. He gets a fuck ton of stats per level An execute A stun, mobility stealth
He also can't build health, one good round of CC will destroy him, he's entirely dependent on his ult and shutting it down invalidates him completely, tank builds were nerfed so the only real source of survivability he has is juking or GA/QSS, and he can't/it's nearly impossible to 1v1 anyone as him. Anyone who's smart enough to dodge his telegraphed Q/E will decimate him.
It's easy to make any champion look good when you single out their abilities. For example, Lulu has a:
Point and click polymorph, Free bonus damage on her AAs, A hard hitting Q that can be cast up to over 1,500 units, A shield, A MS boost, A point and click ult that gives free health and knocks up, Gives free damage to allies AAs, Point and click MS and AS buff, and a point and click damage/true sight spell.
I agree that older champions don't compare well to newer ones, but Pyke isn't even the worst offender. Even now with his changes he's much healthier. The only thing he needs changed is his Gray Health scaling/reliability and he'll be one of the best champions to come out. He had a few patches of being ridiculous and that's it.
GigglesO18 votesIt wasn't an "OP" comment as much as a Why do they get so much in their kit.
Look at like annie. Stun Damage Damage reduction Bear that chases and does damage.
Hotarµ2 votesAnnie is a horrible example because she's an absolute monster.
Anyways, I said that older champions don't hold a candle to the newer ones that come out. There will always be a huge gap between them when you put mobile champions vs. immobile ones.
DarkLordArbitur11 votesThat's actually why annie is a perfect example. She's an older champion that does her job well and doesn't have much. He's not talking about OP champions. He's talking about how every champion has some overloaded, super bogged down kit that requires a lot of study to understand the whole thing. Though he did fail to see the cooldown refresh and mana refund on Q if it kills.
Hotarµ2 votesSomeone like Skarner, Xerath, Mordekaiser, or Olaf would be a perfect example. Perfectly linear with so many ways to outplay them if you're playing anyone with mobility.
Annie has point and click stuns that completely shut down mobile people like Vayne/Pyke/Kayn, she's got huge burst damage at all points of the game, and her stun can be held indefinitely, keeping both Assassins and entire teams at bay because of her terrifying ult. Annie does fine/pretty well in this meta of high damage and mobility, which is why I said she wasn't a good example.
GigglesO6 voteswhich is why I said she wasn't a good example.
No, shes still a great example because she does function with less.
It shows that kits with less abilities CAN FUNCTION.
I really want to know why new champions have so many extras on their kits that they don't need to function or are just free power creep.