I don't understand the point of a champ being a hard scaling champ if their laning phase is good and/or oppressive.
was in this circle too, though probably isn't now after the nerfs...though he's already being rebuffed...lol
Like I can deal with them being retarded strong late, but at least make their early games bad.
vgamedude24 votesCamilles lane isn't THAT strong. I mean the whole reason you take second wind, iron skin and comet is too bandage over her early game.
GP can still get punished by some champs which you can see in pro play.
Troll for Trump30 votesCamilles lane isn't THAT strong. I mean the whole reason you take second wind, iron skin and comet is too bandage over her early game.
GP can still get punished by some champs which you can see in pro play.
Camille's laning is pretty solid because of how easily she wins trades. I don't see how she scales well into lategame, however.
Trash MammaI5 votesHer Q's scaling true damage
Troll for Trump3 votes[{quoted}](name=Simple Tora,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GIQQdNZ2,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-02-14T15:13:53.850+0000)
Her Q's scaling true damage
Isn't enough to make her a lategame champ, yes.
Fairyfleur2 votesShe scales very well with items but doesn’t do well in teamfights, which is the trade for a doable laning phase.
Ralanr5 votesSounds like how people want fighters to scale honestly.
FCJAAAAGOOOO3 votesAoE 600+ range autos + the potential AoE from the pepperoni + an ult that can peel for her team + a masive, takedown - resetting AoE damage leap? WHENA YOUSSA THINKIN' SHESSA BAD?
Fairyfleur7 votesAre you talking about Tristana? Bc I was talking about Camille in my comment.
Troll for Trump2 votesShe scales very well with items but doesn’t do well in teamfights, which is the trade for a doable laning phase.
Which is why she isn't that good lategame because lategame is generally sluggy teamfights.
Otherwise, many more champs would be "Good" lategame because they can scale well with items
Fairyfleur1 votesThat's right, but in duels, skirmishes, and split-pushing she excels with items, it's just teamfights that keep her from using her damage well in lategame fights.
Troll for Trump1 votesThat's right, but in duels, skirmishes, and split-pushing she excels with items, it's just teamfights that keep her from using her damage well in lategame fights.
But those aren't really things that happen much in lategame in the current way the game is.
Automated Riven6 votesCamille's laning is pretty solid because of how easily she wins trades. I don't see how she scales well into lategame, however.
1000 true damage nuke on a 3 second cool down? I play Camille btw. Her late game is solid. For a bruiser anyhow.
Troll for Trump2 votes[{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GIQQdNZ2,comment-id=000100000002,timestamp=2018-02-14T15:43:19.312+0000)
1000 true damage nuke on a 3 second cool down? I play Camille btw. Her late game is solid. For a bruiser anyhow.
She doesn't consistently apply it because of it being delayed and because the rest of her kit is so lackluster in teamfights.
She is stronger than most bruisers, but most bruisers are crap anyhow.
I'm comparing her with mages and ADCs in terms of lategame power and she's much worse than them.
Tails90161 votesI've been hit with 900 damage Q's late game.
Troll for Trump2 votesI've been hit with 900 damage Q's late game.
It's delayed. She dives and can punish isolated targets but not much else in the lategame slugfest teamfights.
YumaS2Astral1 votesI don't see how she scales well into lategame, however.
It is not that she scales well into the late game, but Camille's ult is often a death sentence for the enemy carry late game, because you can't escape from it at all (unlike J4's ult)
Unless your ADC is a Xayah or your team has a champion that can knock Camille out of her ult, like Poppy or Alistar
Troll for Trump1 votesIt is not that she scales well into the late game, but Camille's ult is often a death sentence for the enemy carry late game, because you can't escape from it at all (unlike J4's ult)
Unless your ADC is a Xayah or your team has a champion that can knock Camille out of her ult, like Poppy or Alistar
Or if she gets blown up/cc'd down immediatly
MorgManBasher5 votesCamilles lane isn't THAT strong. I mean the whole reason you take second wind, iron skin and comet is too bandage over her early game.
GP can still get punished by some champs which you can see in pro play.
You have to admit the comet makes her pretty oppressive.
vgamedude5 votesYou have to admit the comet makes her pretty oppressive.
I don't know about that. Apparently comet just makes her lane phase doable. I wouldn't be so eager to nerf one of the only fighter/bruisers whose actually relevant.
Madsin2512 votesCamille destroys 
That's a good chunk of the top lane roster.
dlayed2 votesYour literally just naming off champions, poppy Totally negates Camille's kit. W blocks the dashs, her ult is countered by Poppy's e and ult.
Madsin255 votesSo camille is balanced because poppy can knock her out of her ult. I understand now.
There is a good reason the top lane mains in challenger use camille.
Somebody Love Me4 votesBecause she's a fun well designed champion and one of the only playable bruisers in the game?
JavelinJoe2 votesYeah, because she is good at fast roaming and making picks onto specific targets, not because she is a dominate lane phase champion.
Automated Riven3 votesCamille destroys
That's a good chunk of the top lane roster.
Camille doesnt destroy most of these lanes. Alot of these are skill matchups. She can destroy them but only if she is better. Notable matchups would be (poppy literally kicks the shit out of camille unless your braindead)
And you listed literally some of the worst champions in the game who get destroyed by everyone, namely (like seriously??? is this guy even a toplaner anymore. He is pretty much only ever seen jungle)
And literally the only reason She can lane against most of these champions is because comet is a crutch that she uses to be able to lane. if she had an actual keystone that scaled with her which she wanted to take which also worked on some of these other champions the gap would be much smaller. Example. Riven trashed camille when they both had ferver until later in the game when camille was on a triforce power spike.
Fairyfleur1 votesHow do you have proof that these are good matchups for Camille, and not just these champions being weak or Camille just being fairly strong for the ones that are actually legitimate?
For starters, Camille has a negative winrate against Fiora, GP, Darius, Nasus, Jax, Shen, Illaoi, Maokai, Teemo, Malphite, Sion, Poppy, Urgot, Pantheon, Akali, Yorick, and Wukong. Like, where are you getting these stats? She doesn't destroy any champion unless that champion is just garbage rn.
Madsin251 votesIf the camille is actually good she will do one of two things depending on how smart you are.
Zone you off of CS at lvl 2 forcing you to play safe and miss alot of creeps. Where you have a chance to comeback and fight her at lvl 6 possibly.
Zone you off of CS at lvl 2 and heavily snowball the lane because you are greedy and went for that extra creep.
The people saying she has a healthy laning phase makes me think they have never fought one.
Fairyfleur2 votesIf the Camille is better at the game than her opponent she deserves to win the laning phase if she is that good.
Again, statistics in Korean plat+ on OP.GG prove that Camille hasa negative winrate against half or more of the toplaners you listed so where are you getting your info?
Madsin251 votesBetter at the game? Are we playing mirror matchups here?
This has to do with the tools camille has compared to everyone else top lane.
https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Camille/counters/
Fairyfleur1 votesOkay so Camille has a pretty average winrate with a decent playrate; nothing that needs nerfs.
When I look at Camille’s strong matchups it’s mostly against champions who are pretty garbage right now or are just pretty bad toplane, and these 6 or so champions don’t constitute the list you made of half of toplane that she “destroys”, or I could be missing something because I’m on mobile.
Somebody Love Me1 votesDid you just say Camille destroys Fiora??????
Fiora is the hardest counter Camille has.
THE RlVER KlNG1 votescamille's e should not go through minions. it makes trading against her extremely difficult as she can q a minion, then immediately e onto you with q proc and just run away.
she can take all sorts of keystones, which lots of bruisers can't say. her ultimate is also really gross and anti-fun.
vgamedude2 votes[{quoted}](name=THE RlVER KlNG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GIQQdNZ2,comment-id=00010003,timestamp=2018-02-15T02:29:24.303+0000)
camille's e should not go through minions. it makes trading against her extremely difficult as she can q a minion, then immediately e onto you with q proc and just run away.
she can take all sorts of keystones, which lots of bruisers can't say. her ultimate is also really gross and anti-fun.
I don't ever see any Camilles run anything besides comet. I mean if you take away her E and R she wouldn't really be picked would she?
I just don't really think Camille is an issue here. Rather other fighters should be up to her level. She's the only one that's really useful up top at the moment.
THE RlVER KlNG1 votesno, i do think camille is too strong. the problem is that the meta is so warped that its difficult to telll what's too strong and what's underpowered. she's got a really aggro lane phase that's also too safe. she's a big swiss army knife of a champ thats too good at a lot of things.
i've seen some take pta and unsealed. pta works really good on her.
vgamedude1 votes[{quoted}](name=THE RlVER KlNG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GIQQdNZ2,comment-id=0001000300000000,timestamp=2018-02-15T02:55:21.624+0000)
no, i do think camille is too strong. the problem is that the meta is so warped that its difficult to telll what's too strong and what's underpowered. she's got a really aggro lane phase that's also too safe. she's a big swiss army knife of a champ thats too good at a lot of things.
i've seen some take pta and unsealed. pta works really good on her.
Checking op gg and champ gg I don't think enough people even take other runes to be listed.
I really don't want to see Camille be useless too. She's a mechanical and interesting fighter that's actually good in top. I
THE RlVER KlNG1 votesshe doesn't have to be useless. she shouldn't be this strong, however. she's extremely oppressive and has too many strengths.
Fairyfleur1 votesI think it's just the combination of comet, scorch, manaflow, and the resolve tree making her laning phase more strong/oppressive with her W poke than it should be.
Rewt20 votesGP's early isnt exactly strong.... its just safe. and klepto helps him reach is late game spike in the midgame because balanced rune is balanced
MorgManBasher3 votesGP's early isnt exactly strong.... its just safe. and klepto helps him reach is late game spike in the midgame because balanced rune is balanced
That's why I said good and/or oppressive, because it's good enough to be safe. He's very hard to punish.
Teridax6819 votesIf a champion can force a safe laning phase, that's still a good laning phase for them, I'd say. Generally, having a carry curve implies that said carry champion has a period early in the game where they're weak in a manner that correlates with their late-game strength. During this time, they should be fully open to punishment so that the opposing team has a fair chance to set them back, so if they can bypass that via safety in lane, they are effectively failing to honor that requirement.
Doozku5 votesNo he can actually bully some lanes pretty hard. He is pretty tanky thanks to resolve and can poke you down with Qs really hard in lane. Especially true if he decides to take grasp or Aery over klepto.
YoungFarmer4 votesGP's early isnt exactly strong.... its just safe. and klepto helps him reach is late game spike in the midgame because balanced rune is balanced
As soon as he has tri force he has kill potential, and he gets that around 10 min.
Steel Blossom4 votesGP's early isnt exactly strong.... its just safe. and klepto helps him reach is late game spike in the midgame because balanced rune is balanced
lol a safe early game on a late game hyper carry...? Just, why?
MinchSko8 votesDont forget about 
, and they are still not chasing his wither thats insane op and almost to no counterplay
makkii4 votesDont forget about
I agree with OP but if anything nasus is the perfect example of the balance concept OP is talking about.
I’m not saying nasus is or isn’t OP, what I will say is that he’s really weak early game, against both pokey lane bullies, but also against basically any champ with 1 hard cc+1 slow or 2 hard cc, that can just abuse nasus with runes like electrocute or just kite him around. The trade off being that he’s a lategame Godzilla level monster.
Lil Homie busta14 votesWrong. Nasus laning phase isn't bad if you know what you're doing (second wind, refillable + cloth vs AD heavy, mana management, using E or W to negate trade try, Klepto), especially with how fast the games are nowdays. Nasus isn't a late game champion just because he has a infinite-on-paper damage scaling in his Q, he's a mid game spike champion. In late, he get's kited and outscaled by ADC's and their supports.
makkii2 votes[{quoted}](name=Lil Homie busta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GIQQdNZ2,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2018-02-14T17:22:16.700+0000)
Wrong. Nasus laning phase isn't bad if you know what you're doing (second wind, refillable + cloth vs AD heavy, mana management, using E or W to negate trade try, Klepto), especially with how fast the games are nowdays. Nasus isn't a late game champion just because he has a infinite-on-paper damage scaling in his Q, he's a mid game spike champion. In late, he get's kited and outscaled by ADC's and their supports.
Nasus’s early laning is terrible dude.
Yes provided he has no team, he can be succeptible to kiting, but with the amount off cc in this game right now it’s not all that hard for nasus to pop off on some people during a team fight, between a spammable wither and siphons that do half your health bar, he provides great value to lategame team fights, he’s also a great lategame split pusher.
karolmo4 votesNasus’s early laning is terrible dude.
Yes provided he has no team, he can be succeptible to kiting, but with the amount off cc in this game right now it’s not all that hard for nasus to pop off on some people during a team fight, between a spammable wither and siphons that do half your health bar, he provides great value to lategame team fights, he’s also a great lategame split pusher.
Nasus early laning is terrible*
early means before he gets wither
makkii3 votesNasus early laning is terrible*
early means before he gets wither
Early does not mean before he gets wither, wither only becomes a large threat at rank 5 with cdr when it’s chain spammable and can slow you for 95% at peak.
Before that it’s honestly not a big deal because it doesn’t screech your movement to a halt, and early game his siphons tickle.
It’s also really easy for the first 7 or 8 levels or so to just watch your minion health bars and just stun/displace and get real close to nasus and the targeted minion, this causes nasus to either miss the siphon last hit, with him then having to use it on a higher hp minion or waste it, OR causes him to accidentally use it on you, you can use this strat to make him miss MINUTES worth of siphon stacks.