Revert the changes you made to Kindred in 7.11.
In one patch, Kindred went from 15th Highest Win Rate, to 34th. Even in a Marksman meta with teams full of 
Stoneborn Pact & Windspeaker's Blessing, Kindred is still only sitting at 18th in the Jungle - still lower than Kindred was pre-nerf, and lower than they were during a volatile Assassin meta in the first half of Season 7.
The Yetii Rider3 votes"Kindred is still only sitting at 18th in the Jungle - still lower than Kindred **was ** pre-nerf, and lower than they were during a volatile Assassin meta in the first half of Season 7"
...No. You cannot do this. You cannot use the singular for Kindred's name and then the plural when you use a pronoun to refer to her. How do you expect anyone to be able to read this garbage when you are changing your conjugation of verbs for the SAME SUBJECT? Either use all plural verbs or say 'they is'. Or better yet, just call Kindred 'she'. Don't let your political correctness destroy your grasp of basic English.
Back to the point. Kindred is a ranged champion that is intended to jungle, and Kindred is a champion with very low skill expression. Even as far as marskmen go, Kindred has terrible skill expression. Her Q automatically hits, her W before the changes was a self-cast, her ultimate is a self-cast, her E is a point and click. Before her changes, she couldn't miss with anything. There was no chance for the Kindred player to fuck up. That's why she needs to stay in such a bad state. Kindred is basically "If I am close enough to you, you will take all of these shots with no counterplay". None. Vayne can miss her E stun, Draven can miss his E and R, Ashe can miss her W and her R, MF can miss her E and R, Ezreal can miss Q, W, and R, etc.
Kindred's kit is very poorly designed. She needs to be bad, because when she's good there is nothing anyone can do to her. You can't even take advantage of the fact that she's squishy because she becomes immortal and artificially gives herself more time to auto-hit you with damage while incentivizing you to stay within her range of auto-hit abilities.
MooooooooreDakka2 votesE required 3 hits to proc, they need to be in w to be damaged and you need to be in w for lower q CD, your damage depends on marks whose collection telegraphs your movements, and your ult is one of if not the biggest double edged sword in the game. Skillshots are not the only form of counterplay or skill expression in the game.
The Yetii Rider1 votesSkillshots are not the only form of counterplay but they are the one that Riot uses the most.
Champions that have lost auto-hit abilities in reworks: 
Auto-hit effects are seen as dangerous, low interactive and unfun to lose to. I have no idea why Riot made a champion with so many auto-hit effects after their campaign to remove many of them from the game, but they did and now they're paying the price. Asking them to revert back to the less skill expressive version is not going to work.
MooooooooreDakka1 votesI might be missing a few but rengar e, sion q, taric e, ryze q, raka q, talon e, veigar q, ww ult, and zilean q all would have the same effect on you once they cast them regardless of what you do to react or other circumstances aside from spell shields, wind wall, or unbreakable. Just like a skill shot can be countered by dodging, kindred w can be countered by walking away, kindred e can be countered by stopping her from getting three hits on you, and kindred r can be countered with displacements and even if you don't have them you can still take advantage of the zone plus the ability itself requires skill to use well.
The Yetii Rider1 votesKindred's E is countered by stopping her from getting three hits on you...how? You can CC her, that's true, but the duration is quite long. Can you CC her for that long so that the mark goes away without being proc'd entirely? No, it's more likely that you have to either kill her or run away, and killing her is a problem...So, basically, the only counterplay is to run away, which isn't very helpful.
Kindred R can be countered with displacements, yes. But the displacement has to be enough to knock Kindred (or whoever your target is) from the center of the ability out of the ability, and then you have to kill that champion before they re enter.
Kindred's Q cannot be dodged. You are missing that point. You haven't even offered any defense of that point. Even if you argue that Kindred's W and E can be stopped by running away (which isn't good counterplay) and her R can be stopped if you happen to have both displacement AND burst to follow up the displacement, her Q is still zero counterplay.
MooooooooreDakka1 votesDisplacement isn't really the main counter to her ult, the main counter would be using it against her team by taking advantage of not being able to die either or through aoe cc + burst for when it ends. In a one on one scenario her e doesn't really have a lot of counterplay unless you're trying to run away but in a teamfight as long as you aren't the frontline you can use your frontline to zone her away from you. Her q can't be dodged but it's range isn't great so she has to be fairly close to you as a squishy and it only has a low cooldown when she uses it in her w which you can run away from or just zone her out of.
The Yetii Rider1 votesNo one is complaining about Kindred's team fighting. Everyone wants her invading/dueling/early game in general to be better like it used to. In those situations, her one on one power is very relevant, and her E having no counterplay is annoying.
MooooooooreDakka1 votesYeah, under those circumstances her e can usually not be countered but it is an execute and if you play around her w you should be able to avoid a lot of her damage. I don't play jungle much though so I might be wrong about how easy that is.
The Yetii Rider1 votesYeah, under those circumstances her e can usually not be countered but it is an execute and if you play around her w you should be able to avoid a lot of her damage. I don't play jungle much though so I might be wrong about how easy that is.
Her point and click kit is why she was nerfed into the ground in the first place, so yeah, you're pretty wrong about it.
HaIlMonitor1 votesIf you are referring to Rengar Q, that was an awful change. On things that are supposed to be standard damage abilities making them miss because of random flashes/dashes/mouse placement is terrible. It just makes people lose the trade because the enemy just happened to use their flash, not because they were attempting to actually dodge the Q.
The Yetii Rider1 votesI am referring to Rengar's Bola Strike, which used to be point and click and was changed to a skill shot.
HaIlMonitor1 votesOh lol, that was long ago.
The Yetii Rider1 votesOh lol, that was long ago.
Yes, which is my point. We've had this position by Riot about point and click abilities being bad for the game for years and yet they still released Kindred. It doesn't make any sense and her imbalance and poor skill expression very quickly backfired and they had to gut her out of the game, basically.
HaIlMonitor1 votesYeah, I feel like Rengar Q is basically the "took it to far" portion. But honestly I think its her ult that needs to go. I strongly dislike that ult because it just doesnt fit her kit overall. Like if she had Daisy "wolf" that would make more sense, and Ivern having her ult or something.
The Yetii Rider1 votesHow would that be different from her W though?
HaIlMonitor1 votesBecause it would be an actual minion instead of just an area. Then they could give her some sort of utility on her W or just clean up the rest of her kit overall.
Small Boobs Ahri2 votesplease Riot give back the old Kindred ! [sg-janna]
DeathBurst1 votesI mean, yeah, they are not EXACTLY at the level they were in 7.10, but they are pretty close to it. Are you really complaining for 3 ranks and half a winrate point? She's still above the 50% mark, she's still better than average. I can understand the 7.11-7.12 patches were frustrating, but it was 4 months ago, get over it...
Warlord Rhinark1 votesWhat Riot should really be doing is rework her ultimate. From both a story as well as gameplay viewpoint, it sucks on so many levels it's unbelievable.
Entheos Geon1 votesThere's no point in asking for drastic changes when preseason is right around the corner and who knows where the meta will settle. I played a little Kindred with the new runes and I think they synergize pretty well with her kit, we just have to wait and see.
DarkSoul19941 votesI mean, they're not as 'drastic' as the changes Meddler made to Kindred out of nowhere for no reason. Kindred would be a stable pick right now in the current meta.
Tristanl0l1 votesidgi. she has a 50% winrate. literally the epitome of balance if you ask me
