Oh hey look Stashu kept to his word about revisiting Cassiopeia

5G8Nri0B54·Jan 17, 2015·57 votes·4,455 views

EDIT: Since this has been a common question. This is what a Spike is.

Just think of all the "B-b-b-but 54% winrate!" or "Look at how much damage she is doing in X seconds now!" you've heard.

Q 40/45/50/55/60 Mana to 40/50/60/70/80 Mana

E 35/45/55/65/75 Mana to 50/60/70/80/90 Mana

Not saying she doesn't deserve the nerfs, but when the plan to make players like the rework is to shove her full of shiny numbers till she becomes OP, maybe a different approach should be considered?

Maybe...just maybe...appealing to Spikes and only to Spikes may not be the greatest design choice in the world. You're only appealing to a set of players who will literally like any champion as long as he/she is OP. A blue rectangle firing red colours spinning squares is good enough as long as it has enough shiny numbers to appeal to Spikes.

In a way I'm actually kinda glad she's getting nerfed, now there won't be anymore

bu-bu-but...54% winrate=good champion design!

92 Comments

MatezoideJan 17, 201530 votes

Cassiopeia literally can not be balanced around that fucking passive. Over 1k AP on a DOS mage is a moronic idea.

They should just revert this failure of a rework.

doubleguacJan 17, 20158 votes

I really don't understand the thought process behind this passive. Gating power behind a counter that is barely connected to how well she is doing makes no sense to me. It isn't fun getting stomped by a 1/5 Cassio because the game happened to last 30 minutes. And I'm sure it isn't all that fun as Cassio to have a weakish early game regardless of how well you are doing, because a huge portion of your kit's power is locked into a counter with a soft time limit.

They've designed a "hyper carry" passive that is easier to stack as a support than a mid. That in itself is indicative of a problem. I'm fine with a passive that grants her increasing strength as the game goes on, but that strength should be tied to her actual performance in the game, not to how often she is able to poke champions with her Q.

EfficientDynamoJan 18, 20153 votes

This is so sadly true. I enjoy playing Cass, but I feel like my job is to not die too much before level 11 or so, and then just blow up anyone that gets near me. I also have to wonder how far apart in time the relative powerspikes are when comparing a passive Cass vs. an aggressive Cass.

That said, i could be happy with the passive if they made her Q and W worth a damn. They feel like they don't do anything unless you follow up with an E.

ScampyJan 17, 201530 votes

Just a daily reminder that Stashu lied to the entire Cass community, AGAIN. I was hopeful for this guy but honestly after 4 years of playing League I've never seen a Rioter screw something up so badly and be so friggin' certain that everyone else is just too stupid to understand how much fun his idea is.

"Learn to love it" is a terrible, terrible strategy for game balance. But it's what Stashu's been doing from the start. "Oh don't worry you'll learn to love the passive and E spam, you just don't know any better! I'm totally on board with why you're upset, I'm just going to selectively respond to your criticism and make no significant changes!"

God. Someone fire his ass and bring Xelnath in on this project so we can get a Rioter who can respond to feedback with more than a "sucks to be you."

CanastusJan 17, 201525 votes

These manacosts are downright absurd, don't they realize that's where some of her biggest issues came from before they revisited this horrendous rework? She'll be unviable again if this goes through.

They should rather focus on nerfing unhealthy champions like Fizz and Zed instead of gutting Cassiopeia, she already has more counterplay than the majority of midlaners due to her terrible mobility and low range. If she's unable to continue casting due to running oom instantly, she simply becomes unplayable.

Krys StarJan 17, 201513 votes

Likely because Cassiopeia mains destroyed stashu in lane. So he wanted to downright nerf her so she can't duel anymore until late game. That's all this nerf serves to do. Make her laning impossibly weak again. She'll just be stuck farming, and if tries to trade or duel she'll go oom quickly. I honestly think a better nerf would've been giving her scaling Twin Fang back, so she doesn't hit as hard as a truck early on but can at least try to duel instead of going oom instantly.

doubleguacJan 17, 20154 votes

If Riot is committed to keeping this new passive (which, personally, I don't think they should, but that's besides the point), then reducing her early dueling/trading power seems like a logical place to nerf her.

Cassio doesn't have to score kills in lane to get strong. All she has to do is land her Q a lot. And her Q is keeping the same mana cost at early levels. The rework basically forced Cassio players to level her E first anyways, so her Q will cost the same. Which means that her passive will be just as easy to stack.

Cassio absolutely deserves a nerf right now. Right after the initial rework, she was terrible for the first 40 minutes of a game and godly afterwards. Now she's good for the first 10 minutes, great for the next ten minutes, and godly after that.

If Riot wants her to be a late game hyper carry, nerfing her early dueling/trading without reducing her ability to stack her passive makes sense.

All that being said, I still don't understand why Riot is so committed to giving her a crap early game and a godly late game. Loading so much power into a soft time cap that is barely connected to the player's holistic performance doesn't seem very fun to play as, with, or against.

5G8Nri0B54Jan 17, 20157 votes

I should point out what I thought went without saying, that is I never EVER had any issues with whether she is OP or UP, and I know she will most likely get nerfed.

But that's always been nothing more than a Red Herring. The main issue has always been her gameplay. In fact, I'm personally glad they're nerfing her so I can stop seeing "B-b-b-but 54% win rate!" as defence for the rework.

Whether you think AP Rambo is so great and all or not, one thing can not be denied, those who actually liked her being a poison mage were focked in favour of the former group.

SalzigorimandoJan 18, 20152 votes

All that being said, I still don't understand why Riot is so committed to giving her a crap early game and a godly late game. Loading so much power into a soft time cap that is barely connected to the player's holistic performance doesn't seem very fun to play as, with, or against.

This is even more bizarre when you take into account the way riot has been trying to make games shorter lately. The turret nerfs, the dragon buff, the harder jungle that forces lane interaction, the tank nerfs, the healer nerfs,..... riot has said they don't like the idea of players turtling up and dragging out the game as a catch up from behind tactic, and yet they try to make a champion with a solid early game and clear weaknesses into a late game only beast?

Where is the reasoning behind this?

yellowbricksJan 17, 201519 votes

We want more levers to balance Cass around.

-gives her a ball of stats bigger than the fuckin sun-

-increases mana costs-

Just go back to the drawing board you twats. Maybe if you ask nicely, Brackhar could pop in the office for one day and just undo the dumb shit Stashu did, but he's probably busy with better things than this tardo game.

PPPPPPPPPPPP270Jan 17, 201516 votes

When did people cry Cass was OP? Did I miss something in the morning?

I knew that healing was going to be a problem because it makes her into a drain tank.

Brenticus12Jan 17, 20153 votes

She has been a little overtuned but she's only really a problem for low elo such as me, lol.

FeathermaneJan 17, 20156 votes

{quoted}

She has been a little overtuned but she's only really a problem for low elo such as me, lol.

Whatever champion is a problem at low Elo is the same at any tier. Master League players just like to imagine there is a difference so they can feel superior. They said for years Akali and FIzz were pubstompers, now they can't shut up about them.

1st HanarSpectreJan 17, 20153 votes

{quoted}

She has been a little overtuned but she's only really a problem for low elo such as me, lol.

Not really. You can see people like Voyboy and such dominate with her at high elo also. He even takes her bot replacing the ad carry sometimes, and he still wrecks shit. You may be upset about her rework, that's fine. You may believe that she was more fun before, and that's fine. However, you can not, by any mean currently say that she is not strong. She is an absolute monster.

Brenticus12Jan 18, 20152 votes

Ah good point. I had actually watched one of his streams where he played Cass and ended up wrecking shit.

questirJan 17, 201514 votes

They shouldn't nerf the mana cost on E. Before the buffs she went oom so fast and doing objectives spamming E was the worst thing. It's almost like Riot forgot why they lowered the mana costs in the first place on 4.1

HellioningJan 17, 20156 votes

I already have pretty big mana problems in any situation other than laning. I don't know why they'd look at that kit and decide 'this can be balanced by raising the mana costs'.

SmokingPuffinJan 17, 201512 votes

This is probably not Stashu's thing. Looks like a balance change and not a design change.

lDontLiftIcarryJan 17, 20159 votes

just saying most of riot is over qualified geeks who don't actually play the game and see it from all perspectives. They play maybe 1-2 roles max and balance around that phiolosophy and the "well if a korean is playing it it must be op!" No koreans play whats IMBALANCED. not OP. completely different.

cass will never be balanced with that passive. its either completely worthless or way too fucking good.

its toxic design that leads to most players feeling like E bots and the other players being all "omg so many kills wtf"

MrBuffingtonJan 17, 20158 votes

IIRC Stashu isn't on the balance team; he probably had nothing to do with the nerfs.

AuryielJan 17, 20157 votes

But he has everything to do with putting her in this state in the first place (which was something he pretty much said was supposed to be TEMPORARY) and we haven't heard anything from him in a while

How many more months until they get rid of that stupid ass passive? -_-

MrBuffingtonJan 17, 20153 votes

Haha, you'll find no resistance from me on that; copy pasta from another comment I made on the subject:

For the record:

I also disagree with these nerfs; it's the damage amp that's oppressive on Cassiopeia, her mana costs are already pretty bad.

I think the damage amp is stupid; it just adds more invisible power to Cassiopeia (which was the goal in shifting her playstyle away from the DoT mage when they reworked her; sounds like they reintroduced the problem they were trying to eliminate), while not really addressing the 'poison mage' fantasy a lot of Cassiopeia players have (the goal Cassiopeia players had, IIRC, was to make her Q/W meaningful spells on their own, instead of relying on her E, which is exactly the opposite of what these changes did).

Additionally, the passive itself is a lot of invisible power since it just gives her random stats.

Grunt666Jan 17, 20158 votes

So tired of you idiots whining all day long about this champ, until you got her buffed into retarded status.

The Queen ViperJan 17, 201529 votes

... everything would be just fine if only they would remove and remake that retarded passive. -.-

5G8Nri0B54Jan 17, 201532 votes

->calls others idiots ->misses the entire point of the whole situation

Krys StarJan 17, 20157 votes

Just came back here on the realization that Cassiopeia's winrate has skyrocketed to the top. Second place now. Yet she's hardly played by many at all. She's hard to master and bring out her full potential. Meanwhile you've got Thresh, Lee Sin, Morgana, Graves, Blitzcrank, Jarvan, Zed, Riven ( who they're stupidly fix-buffing when she's obnoxious and anti-fun to lane and play against ) rocking League and making the game conform to their own playstyle and kit. But hey, let's go ahead and nerf Cassiopeia because only 3% of the community will care enough to cry about it and their cries will just be drowned out by the cash flowing in from LCS.

doubleguacJan 17, 20154 votes

Even when high skill cap champions are overtuned, they tend to have low win rates. Remember Season 4 AP gragas? He was stupidly overpowered. His win rate floated right around 50%. Pre-rework Olaf and pre-nerf LB both had win rates substantially under 50%. Lee Sin has one of the worst win rates in the game at 46%. Zed is sitting at 48%.

I agree that Cassio is incredibly high skill cap. If she wasn't overpowered, she wouldn't have a 54% win rate. Win rate isn't everything, but 54% is a lot, especially a champion that is as hard to play as Cassio.

Whatever your holistic thoughts about Stashu's rework, Cass needs nerfs right now. She's way overtuned.

5G8Nri0B54Jan 17, 20158 votes

tbh I'm kinda glad

This is just poking fun at the fact that after being told that there will be more Cassiopeia updates, the first we hear after all this time is a mana nerf.

I agree that Cassio is incredibly high skill cap. If she wasn't overpowered, she wouldn't have a 54% win rate. Win rate isn't everything, but 54% is a lot, especially a champion that is as hard to play as Cassio.

Okay, I agree with the nerf, but I'm going to disagree with this logic riiiight here. There are some factors that you are missing.

Malzahar has a higher winrate than a champion with his handicaps should have. The reason why they're higher though?

a) Very few bother playing Malzahar, but the few who stick around are dedicated as hell

b) Because barely anyone plays him, most people are not used to dealing with him

In general, if a champion has a very low playrate, it's not surprising for them to have high winrates, unless their numbers are seriously undertuned.

OrangesilkJan 18, 20152 votes

There's also the thing with scripters, a scripted Cass is even stronger now than it used to, since all her power is on her E, and they represent a significant portion of current Cass players, which makes her winrate artificially inflate.

5G8Nri0B54Jan 18, 20152 votes

"Stashu did this rework to deal with scripters" and "this rework is scripter proof"-my ass!

AlphariteJan 17, 20157 votes

Not even surprised anymore. GJ STASHU.

ThryaleJan 17, 20157 votes

What more is there to say? Riot has abandoned Cass as far as game design is concerned. Sure, they'll continue to "balance" her, but as far as interactive game design elements, they're done. GG

AudiomancyJan 17, 20156 votes

@Anyael

You say that you like the deceptive nature of her playstyle. Whittling an enemy down with poison, slowly killing them before they can notice, then going in for the kill when it was too late for them to escape. You don't seem to understand that that was the entire premise of the Old Cassiopeia. I also absolutely loved this playstyle. It was subtle, sneaky and exciting. A perfect fit for a champion who uses her wits and wiles to get ahead.

This new Cassiopeia completely scraps that ideal. There is no subtleness, no deception; just 'land poison, slam face on E until dead.' It is not fun or creative in the slightest. She no longer requires the patience and cunning that old Cass did, just spam Twin Fangs and hope you win.

straight4freeJan 18, 20152 votes

{quoted}

@Anyael

You say that you like the deceptive nature of her playstyle. Whittling an enemy down with poison, slowly killing them before they can notice, then going in for the kill when it was too late for them to escape. You don't seem to understand that that was the entire premise of the Old Cassiopeia. I also absolutely loved this playstyle. It was subtle, sneaky and exciting. A perfect fit for a champion who uses her wits and wiles to get ahead.

This new Cassiopeia completely scraps that ideal. There is no subtleness, no deception; just 'land poison, slam face on E until dead.' It is not fun or creative in the slightest. She no longer requires the patience and cunning that old Cass did, just spam Twin Fangs and hope you win.

How so? The deception comes when trading harass - the relatively low poison damage leads lane enemies to believe that they can actually fight you, when this is absolutely not true.

If you were to max Q first you could probably try to bring back that playstyle with item 3151 item 3116 - I just don't think it is actually gone while maxing E. There was nothing deceptive about old Cass, your poisons forced people to engage on you if they could not miraculously match your harass. How is that deceptive?

AudiomancyJan 19, 20156 votes

{quoted}

How so? The deception comes when trading harass - the relatively low poison damage leads lane enemies to believe that they can actually fight you, when this is absolutely not true.

The illusion fades once you suddenly charge at them, throwing a ton of fangs until they die. The current Cass is all about E. You farm with it, sustain with it, poke with it and kill with it. Your other abilities are literally just there to help you land more of them. At least with the old Cass, you had options. You could stand back and go in when you saw an opening, or you could put direct pressure on the enemy laner by bombarding them with Twin Fangs should they dare to come close to your minions. Now, we only have the latter, and it is that which is killing Cassiopeia.

If you were to max Q first you could probably try to bring back that playstyle with - I just don't think it is actually gone while maxing E. There was nothing deceptive about old Cass, your poisons forced people to engage on you if they could not miraculously match your harass. How is that deceptive?

It's deceptive because it wasn't a sudden barrage of high numbers. Instead, it was a trap. A few small ticks that built up over time; it punished people who underestimated the player or simply didn't pay attention to their health. That's what poison should be. Discreet, but there. Instead, we've been left with a costly skillshot that deals less damage than an auto attack.

As for Veigar, his infinite AP stacking is tied directly to his character. He has always been about stacking Q and building up his own power. Cassiopeia's by comparison, just came out of nowhere. She has never been a hypercarry and she never should have been made into one.

5G8Nri0B54Jan 19, 20154 votes

fyi, 3/4 of your abilities being useless shit only to spring out a single overloaded ability isn't being "deceptive", that's just bad champion design.

It'll be like creating a champion with a bunch of abilities that are intentionally undertuned and does jack all damage, but possess a single point and click ability that insta-kills the opponent. Someone like you would be totally cool with that champion because it's all "deceptive".

straight4freeJan 17, 20153 votes

I really like the new Cassiopeia - I know that is an unpopular opinion, but I enjoy myself playing her and do well when I do.

Change for the sake of change is pointless, she is probably strong early game for what she can do late at the moment. These nerfs are fair.

If I were to change her at all again, I would make her Twin Fangs stacks affect Miasma much more than Noxious Blast, to make her whole kit hurt more.

5G8Nri0B54Jan 17, 20157 votes

You haven't described how you like Cassiopeia, so I can't really say why you'd like her.

But in all my time talking about her, I noticed one very important fact about everyone who claims to enjoy her new play style.

Either

They like her because *"omg 54% winrate must win games nao!" *

They legitimately like this playstyle...for all the exact same qualities that pre-rework kit possessed. ("holy shit her E is powerful! her E's cooldown resets if it hits a poisoned target!" or some other random praise that also directly applies to pre-rework Cass)

Very few genuinely like the rework and it's changes. Some bring up the argument that they like the new one because of the QoL fixes, however, all thsoe QoL fixes are 100% independent of all the rest of the bs the rework subjected Cassiopeia to.

Many who claim to like her are either Spikes, or they would have liked Cassiopeia just as much had all the crap not happened.

straight4freeJan 17, 20152 votes

{quoted}

You haven't described how you like Cassiopeia, so I can't really say why you'd like her.

But in all my time talking about her, I noticed one very important fact about everyone who claims to enjoy her new play style.

Either

They like her because *"omg 54% winrate must win games nao!" *

or

They legitimately like this playstyle...for all the exact same qualities that pre-rework kit possessed. ("holy shit her E is powerful! her E's cooldown resets if it hits a poisoned target!" or some other random praise that also directly applies to pre-rework Cass)

Very few genuinely like the rework and it's changes. Some bring up the argument that they like the new one because of the QoL fixes, however, all thsoe QoL fixes are 100% independent of all the rest of the bs the rework subjected Cassiopeia to.

Many who claim to like her are either Spikes, or they would have liked Cassiopeia just as much had all the crap not happened.

Yes, I liked Cassiopeia before the rework. That doesn't mean that the rework has to be trashed, if she can play perfectly fine afterwards then what is the point of changing her more?

I like the deceptive nature of her play; you poison your enemies in lane and tick their health down, lulling them into a false sense of security as they see "oh she can hardly hurt me", before you rip them apart.

People don't seem to understand that the passive is not a hindrance - her early game was nerfed but not to the point of uselessness. You're wrong that I would like her just as much without the rework, seeing as how I used to play her very infrequently and found many things that the passive offers to be a great boon.

The free spellvamp is great and I get it very early in the game, but the mother of all bonuses is really the 25% CDR IMO. With it, it means I do not have to build a single CDR item so long as I use the correct rune and mastery set-up, still having 40% CDR around 20 minutes in without spending any gold on it.

I don't think hitting her in her mana costs is the right idea because that makes her much worse in her late-game fantasy, but she is undoubtedly strong and her passive is definitely a part of that. Could it be more interesting? Definitely, but that doesn't mean it has to be scrapped.

I would be very angry if the rework was undone, honestly. I've spent a lot of time fine-tuning my Cassiopeia play and I'm beginning to get into the swing of things where only the dreaded Katarina can put me off my stride.

The real question is, why don't you like this Cassiopeia? If it is because you can no longer kill or push out of lane your opponent without committing at all, then I am glad to see it go.

Edit: I would like to see her Twin Fangs restore more mana if she kills a champion, something like Kassadin's W, so that this mana nerf does not destroy her late game and so she can be a continued presence in team fights.

5G8Nri0B54Jan 17, 20157 votes

Okay, so basically you described all the things people dislike the rework (shitting on her with a passive), while describing a bunch of things that was present pre-rework. The CDR is one of the biggest thing that clued people in that her passive exists to fock her early game over because all it achieves is to both restrict her build options and more importantly, revert her cadence to roughly pre-rework. So my hunch was correct, your likes are either qualities the previous Cass possessed, or even worse, it's outright misunderstanding of her new features.

The sole thing the rework thus provided, was a built in spellvamp on her E. Whoopee doo, that is so worth screwing half the fanbase over.

Outside of her E, her abilities do jack all damage. Her AoE is shit now. Her kit is 100% inconsistent with what she's supposed to be. More importantly, the basis in which she got screwed around so much had just as much with how overhwelming her E was as it did with her Q not being shit. And...you know what, just look through past threads for far more details.

The only thing that is 100% an objective benefit from the rework are two QoL fixes...that are 100% independent of the all the rest of the bs the rework subjected her to. When people asked for some changes, they literally only requested those QoL fix and nothing more.

straight4freeJan 17, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Okay, so basically you described all the things people dislike the rework (shitting on her with a passive), while describing a bunch of things that was present pre-rework. The CDR is one of the biggest thing that clued people in that her passive exists to fock her early game over because all it achieves is to both restrict her build options and more importantly, revert her cadence to roughly pre-rework. So my hunch was correct, your likes are either qualities the previous Cass possessed, or even worse, it's outright misunderstanding of her new features.

The sole thing the rework thus provided, was a built in spellvamp on her E. Whoopee doo, that is so worth screwing half the fanbase over.

Outside of her E, her abilities do jack all damage. Her AoE is shit now. Her kit is 100% inconsistent with what she's supposed to be. More importantly, the basis in which she got screwed around so much had just as much with how overhwelming her E was as it did with her Q not being shit. And...you know what, just look through past threads for far more details.

The only thing that is 100% an objective benefit from the rework are two QoL fixes...that are 100% independent of the all the rest of the bs the rework subjected her to. When people asked for some changes, they literally only requested those QoL fix and nothing more.

Fortunately for us, you are not the authority on what Cassiopeia's identity is. She's a snake, I don't know if you're aware of what a Spitting Cobra is, but all the spit does is blind - doesn't actually kill. Thematically it works perfectly - I don't get why you would think otherwise. She also still poisons; late game a well-placed W in a teamfight will do over 1000 damage and provide free poison.

I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but people who are enjoying themselves playing a champion who was reworked are not often the ones who come to the forums. Just because your echo chamber threads seem to come up with the same ideas repeatedly does not mean that these are the opinions held by most Cassiopeia players.

You think that the CDR restricts her build path? Valid complaint, but I am much happier that in a late-game scenario I don't have to stock myself up with CDR items which do subpar damage in order to keep important enemies poisoned. The real issue here is that there aren't enough AP items without CDR to pick from. Besides, depending on your rune page, the only items you are actually dissuaded from purchasing are Athene's and Morello's, which is much better than the likes of manaless APs who have to avoid a whole slew of items.

You don't seem to understand that Riot does not want the old Cassio - that is why she was reworked. In lane, her low Q CD was completely oppressive and with the CDR it becomes so again. Her old cadence was overbearing early game, there is a reason it was changed.

Her AoE is not the best but it certainly isn't shit as you call it. Plus, have you stopped to think that the non-committal AoE with a slow and a speed boost was too much for somebody who could burst down just about anyone?

Why am I not allowed to like both Old and New Cass? Why do I have to choose? Oh, right, because you're on some crusade to see Stashu fired for his rework even though many people enjoy it.

You're vastly underestimating the value of the E heal, too. There is a reason sustain isn't added to a kit lightly. After scoring a kill in lane, farming up a minion wave will fill my mana to half and my health somewhere up there as well. Her lane damage has been nerfed but her lane presence is still there; I'm unsure why you seem incapable of accepting this new Cass.

I think you are just mad, and having made so many threads about the topic you have now convinced yourself that nothing about this Cass can redeem the issues you see with her.

Why don't you just play the game - Cass is still the same champion, at least, unlike some others.

(R.I.P. Karma)

NarasimhaJan 17, 20152 votes

Maybe its something stupidly common, but who/what is Spikes?

5G8Nri0B54Jan 17, 20158 votes

Imagine a Munchkin...except not restricted to DnD, and doesn't make people think of midgets from Wizard of Oz.

NarasimhaJan 17, 20151 votes

Gotcha. Huh, never heard that phrase in LoL before though.

Well that aside, I'm not sure theres too much more they can do for her. They can't redo her rework, its too late for that. They can't rework her AGAIN, they don't have the resources for her. At this point, tuning her is really the only option left, unfortunately.

Be Kind RewindJan 17, 20158 votes

{quoted}

Gotcha. Huh, never heard that phrase in LoL before though.

Well that aside, I'm not sure theres too much more they can do for her. They can't redo her rework, its too late for that. They can't rework her AGAIN, they don't have the resources for her. At this point, tuning her is really the only option left, unfortunately.

Not sure if he was speaking clearly or not, so just to clarify;

A spike is someone whose enjoyment is mostly derived from the victory, rather than by the character/strategy/etc. etc. I.E. Someone who will have fun always playing the most OP champions as long as they win more. (because that is what defines the 'fun' to them.) As opposed to, for example, maining one champion and trying to do as well as possible with them because you love the champion.

5G8Nri0B54Jan 17, 20154 votes

And to put things in full circle.

Spikes should be appealed to last because they'll like literally any champions so long as the champion has the numbers for it. Therefore other archetypes should be prioritized first as they are more fickle and much more interested in stuff such as gameplay, identity, etc.

Sightless66Jan 17, 20151 votes

I'm more confused now. What?