Stop With CertainlyT

Frosted Tips·Aug 18, 2018·13 votes·2,878 views

I see all of these posts about how he is the worst and should be fired. He should not be fired he has created one of the greatest champions in league.

has changed the landscape of the support role forever. Thresh may have been a bit overturned on release but that has been fixed. He is so fun and popular ever since his release every other support released since that had to attempt to live up to him. This means more new supports have many ways to use their utility. I promise you he is the only reason that support isn't viewed as the least fun role to play. Before Thresh it was filled with champions like Janna, Soraka, Sona, etc. Now we have Bard, Braum, Thresh, etc. But every champion before can still be played.

Yes CertainlyT has made mistakes and (which isn't even fully his fault since the coding is terrible and that has caused alot of his issues) but he isn't completely incompetent.

40 Comments

Blu 1Aug 18, 20187 votes

You forget that Thresh had to have parts of his kit removed because he was so damn overloaded (and arguably still is).

Frosted TipsAug 18, 20182 votes

What big things were removed that I'm missing? His ult only does damaged once and his shield only shields one ally what other big changes happened? And he isn't overloaded now.

Blu 1Aug 18, 20182 votes

Those were the big two, the multi-hit box and the team shield on the lantern.

Frosted TipsAug 18, 20183 votes

Those are pretty small changes in many situations those didn't even effect the game much.

D357R0Y3RAug 18, 20184 votes

I don't know, I have a very long list of rioters that I consider worse than CertainlyT

Zoe isn't a mistake in my eyes, and I don't main her, she has issues but she brought good points in league (mage that is blocked by tanks) to me the real mistake was Kalista this champ brought nothing in league except issues

Frosted TipsAug 18, 20181 votes

I think Zoe could have been fine but I disagree with her passive and her W and her E having any effect after she misses it.

murderessAug 18, 20182 votes

Zoe needs nerfs, that's it. Imo her E CD should be nerfed late and/or RNG should be fixed.

D357R0Y3RAug 18, 20182 votes

She has 46% win rate now Waiting for pro play to play on patch 8.16 to see how she does in pro since riot balances her around pro like Azir

FixHealsRemoveGWAug 18, 20182 votes

If I had a very long list of unreasonable board users that I don't like you would be part of it together with the CertainlyT haters. And that list be soo long.

ToppienAug 18, 20184 votes

idk i just dont like whoever made zed and yasuo

Frosted TipsAug 18, 20183 votes

Samizul and Zeigler mainly worked on Zed

Yasuo is CertainlyT and honestly I think Yasuo wouldn't be as upsetting to face if the changed windwall a bit and made it weaker.

SEKAIAug 18, 20183 votes

You do realise Nautilus, Alistar, Leona, Blitzcrank, Taric, and loosely Zilean, and a few others that can perform similar functions for the role, were made before and used as supports specialising on providing utility and lock-downs prior to the inception of Thresh, right?

If Thresh changed anything, it's introducing edgy character designs in the support roster. And that's kinda it; which incidentally, Thresh also one of the most glaring case of narrative-dissonance in the entirely of the League's roster, who is played as a benevolent support who interacts and help the others in need, when in reality Thresh is a malevolent, murderous, sadistic, and psychotic loner. At least Pyke gives his lane partners a "cut" to signify the kind of relationship he is having by supporting in-game, meanwhile Thresh's gameplay outright makes 0 sense to his character, and almost his entire gameplay design is there just because CertainlyT can't think of a way to actually do an evil support so they just made a standard support but gave him skulls and 'darkness'. Damn, what a great leap forward amiright?

Hell, speaking of gameplay design, CertainlyT simply ripped off 75% of Blitz's kit to be modified into Thresh, so why do we talk as if Thresh is such a good revolution when it is more like the opening of the Pandora's Box?

Frosted TipsAug 18, 20181 votes

You do realise Nautilus, Alistar, Leona, Blitzcrank, Taric, and loosely Zilean were all made before and used as supports specialising on providing utility and lock-downs prior to Thresh, right?

Nautilus has no utility besides cc, Alistar has a tiny heal as utility, Blitz as only cc, Zilean is unique put I was also saying fun for a large group of people which Zilean is not.

Hell, CertainlyT ripped off 75% of Blitz's kit to be modified into Thresh, so why do we talk as if Thresh is such a good revolution when it is more like the opening of the Pandora's Box?

Hooks are not true but it is more like an optional Nautilus hook then like blitz, Lantern is super unique and nothing like blitz, flay has so many more uses than blitz e, and lastly the ultimate is his most bland ability and it is nothing like blitz. So idk how his kit is stolen from blitz.

SEKAIAug 18, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Nautilus has no utility besides cc, Alistar has a tiny heal as utility, Blitz as only cc, Zilean is unique put I was also saying fun for a large group of people which Zilean is not.

Hooks are not true but it is more like an optional Nautilus hook then like blitz, Lantern is super unique and nothing like blitz, flay has so many more uses than blitz e, and lastly the ultimate is his most bland ability and it is nothing like blitz. So idk how his kit is stolen from blitz.

Let's not be intentionally ignorant and play the "I'm so dumb" game.

Thresh and Blitz, outside of the difference in their W, they play almost identically. Their Q, E, and R are just alternative designs of the same spells, going so far to even match each other's buttons; and needless to say, they are used in the same way: Q is to hook, E is to knockup the enemy either as a part of the combo or the initiator, and blast the AoE CC ultimate/R in the middle of the fight that disables multiple opponents up to the entire enemy team to turn the tides. You'd be in seriously denial if you actually believe Thresh and Blitz aren't alternative version of the same gameplay design.

Hell, Thresh apparently needed a shield too (on W) just like Blitz (passive), I guess CertainlyT has to go all the way with his shenanigans with Thresh that day.

When a designer is put to design, and in this case, a champion. Making up 1 single spell for the champ and then blatantly copy the rest from another before modifying it to try and pretend that they made the damn thing, is not okay. If Thresh was an essay or assignment, CertainlyT clearly would've failed the damn thing, because it is as obvious of a plagiarism as it can get. It is not okay.

Frosted TipsAug 18, 20181 votes

The ways these abilities interact with the kit are way different. And the playstyle of the champions are extremely different just because abilities have general concepts that are similar doesn't make the abilities similar or even the champion. Kha'Zix and Kai'Sa have nearly identical kits if you just swap one of their E ability with their R. Doesn't mean they are similar.

SEKAIAug 18, 20182 votes

{quoted}

The ways these abilities interact with the kit are way different. And the playstyle of the champions are extremely different just because abilities have general concepts that are similar doesn't make the abilities similar or even the champion. Kha'Zix and Kai'Sa have nearly identical kits if you just swap one of their E ability with their R. Doesn't mean they are similar.

What a load of BS, Kha'Zix is totally different to Kai'Sa.

Firstly, Kha'Zix's evolution is actively chosen by the player upon leveling up the ulti, Kai'Sa's evolution comes passively by meeting the stat requirement with item builds and can lose her evolution at any time whenever she fails to meet the stat benchmark.
Secondly, there is nothing in Kai'Sa's kit that remotely behaves like Kha'Zix's Unseen Threat and Isolation passives, similarly Kha'Zix has no such thing like Kai'Sa's AA stacks let alone how it plays into the rest of her kit.
Thirdly, Kha'Zix's Q is a point and click/lock-on melee nuke that gets even stronger if the target is alone, while Kai'Sa's Q while CAN be a nuke but it is ranged and is only actually a nuke under the condition of when Kai'Sa meets the enemy entirely alone and have no real control over her targets as it seeks to evenly distribute its missiles to surrounding enemies both champs and minions present. Unless you consider the idea of doing damage means a concept is copied, otherwise they are as good as being unrelated.
Fourthly, Kha'Zix's W is a poke and a DPS dealer and potentially a lockdown upon evolving it, Kai'Sa's W is a long ranged probe ability that function as a vision provider and tag for her ulti as well as the stacking which then can be upgraded to improve her capability in extended fights but otherwise the probe itself doesn't do much in terms of the upfront effects. As far as they are concerned, they are completely unrelated spells.
Fifthly, their E are totally different spells. Only Kai'Sa's EVOLVED E is similar to Kha'Zix's EVOLVED R, and she has no multi-cast.
Sixthly, their R are totally different spells.
Seventhly, Kha'Zix is an assassin and Kai'Sa is a marksmen, with completely different general play pattern and entirely different builds and roles in the game/team.

Oh, what's this? They are totally different champs that just so happens to have a nuke and some kinda ranged spell and momentary invisibility in their ability sets, and you can't on those grounds say the champs that have are MADE differently and PLAYED differently the same, but ignore and pretend the champs that are actually MADE almost identically and PLAYED almost identically like Blitz and Thresh as actually different?

Or do you suppose Vayne is the same as Kai'Sa or even Kha'Zix, too? But oh no, no, no, even when the clearly different are the same to you, the clearly the similar like Blitz and Thresh still look absolutely different in your eyes.

If anything, the only similarity between Kai'Sa and Kha'Zix is the momentary invisibility, which are both primarily used to duel better (though Kha'Zix has the added benefit of using it to engage better). And that's it. That's a hella less than the kind of situation that goes on between Blitz and Thresh.

What a joke.

Frosted TipsAug 18, 20181 votes

I love when people are hypocritical.

Kai'Sa Q - Does more damage to isolated targets because shots all go to one target. When it evolves it gives more damage.

Kha'Zix Q - Does more damage to isolated targets. When it evolves it lowers the lowers the cooldown on isolated targets to it increases damage because it is up more frequently.

Kai'Sa W - Ranged linear skillshot damages first target hit.

Kha'Zix W - Ranged linear skillshot damages first target hit small explosion of AoE damage.

Kai'Sa E - Burst of MS and then gives AS. Evolution gives invisibility.

Kha'Zix R - Burst of MS and invisibility.

Kai'Sa R - Long range dash and gives shield.

Kha'Zix E - short range dash. Evolution makes it long range and gives reset.

Passives are a little different I do agree but they are pretty similar and they are both from the Void.

SEKAIAug 18, 20182 votes

As what I was saying, as far as mechanics are concerned, they are totally unrelated outside of the fact they both have momentary invisibility used for the purpose of dueling, and I guess they both have void themes.

That's where their similarity ends.

EDIT Kai'Sa's evolution is no different to other conditional stat grant in the game like Rengar's empowerment and his Bonetooth Necklace, Renekton's rage-empowered abilities, Cho'gath's growth, Viktor's Hex Core and whatnot. They all have a different flair of their own, and Kai'Sa is not exclusively related to Kha'Zix; it's just that they share a void theme and something to do with "evolution" so people place them together.

.........

if you are going so far to say that even things like the very notion of doing damage or having a dash itself or skillshot means Kai'Sa is a copy of Kha'Zix, then every champ and every and anything is a copy of each other. The spells are not designed with the same purpose and uses, and champs are not played with remotely the same playstyle nor fulfill the same role, then they are not alternatives to the same overall design.

And what's worse, you can go so far to contrived-ly declare very different objects as the same (to the point you're basically saying everything is the same to each other) but still defend the clearly similar subjects of Blitz and Thresh as different.

Frosted TipsAug 18, 20181 votes

The easiest way to say it it that Kai'Sa and Kha'Zix are more similar in playstyle than Thresh and Blitzcrank. That is a fact. Now arguing who's abilities are more similar I still think you are wrong but to each their own.

SEKAIAug 18, 20182 votes

{quoted}

The easiest way to say it it that Kai'Sa and Kha'Zix are more similar in playstyle than Thresh and Blitzcrank. That is a fact. Now arguing who's abilities are more similar I still think you are wrong but to each their own.

That is not a fact. There is a reason why we don't say Vayne and Rengar are the same champion. Because that's the level of difference between Kai'Sa and Kha'Zix. The difference here is the USE and INTENT.

The relationship between Blitzcrank and Thresh is the same between Garen and the original Darius, where the latter of both cases of comparisons are both used in the same manner and fulfill the same role, just with slight alteration to the original but no fundamental transformation in the core ideas ("transformative", a term highly valued in determining copyright infringement and plagiarism). Incidentally, Thresh and Darius are both works of the same designer.

Frosted TipsAug 18, 20181 votes

Again I fail to see how Garen and Darius are that similar. They are both fighters true but they accomplished their goals in completely different playstyles. Also they are supposed to be semi similar they are direct rivals that are both soldiers.

SEKAIAug 18, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Again I fail to see how Garen and Darius are that similar. They are both fighters true but they accomplished their goals in completely different playstyles. Also they are supposed to be semi similar they are direct rivals that are both soldiers.

I specifically said the "original" Darius for a reason.

And I also hammered on the USE and INTENT for a reason.

The original Darius is played identically as Garen, just with minor technicality differences. They are both played by conditioning the enemy with an AA mod CC, spins to DPS, and finishes the fight by literal dunking. All of the new elements that Darius is now known for like his bleed stack and his layered and delayed spin are added by the rework; the original Darius is just an alternative design and a more damage oriented Garen, with the only truly meaningful and distinct difference being having a pull as opposed to a MS steroid that Garen has. It's not hard to see that the 2 designs are basically what happens when a student copies another's art assignment hours before deadline.

2 champs with guns is not copying. But 2 champs with guns who are both hit-and-run marksmen, that both use 6 shell reload, and both have manual sniping as their ulti, is copying each other. Kai'Sa and Kha'Zix are not copies, Blitz and Thresh are copies.

But then again, if you really have to go so far to pretend that you're dumb and are not seeing the blatant lies you're defending. Then maybe you're really just that dumb.

Frosted TipsAug 18, 20181 votes

specifically said the "original" Darius for a reason.

I know I was

They are both played by initiating with a CC

Lol what a single target melee silence is nothing like a AoE ranged pull

condition the enemy with an AA mod

Garen already used his with the engage

spins to DPS

Garen has dps Darius had instant damage.

But then again, if you really have to go so far to pretend that you're dumb and are not seeing the blatant lies you're defending. Then maybe you're really just that dumb.

Glad we can have a civil discussion. Hope it was as productive for you as it was for me.

SEKAIAug 18, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I know I was

Lol what a single target melee silence is nothing like a AoE ranged pull

Garen already used his with the engage

Garen has dps Darius had instant damage.

Glad we can have a civil discussion. Hope it was as productive for you as it was for me.

It's funny how you would say that a meat pie and a cherry pie are different on the basis of their different fillings, and you will never acknowledge that they ultimately, are both pies. Meanwhile, you would also insist on calling bread and noodles the same thing, on the basis that they are both wheat products.

Let it sink in.

I'm done.

......

EDIT: I was also talking about the Darius' AA mod slow when comparing with Garen's Q. But ofc, being so intentionally obtuse, you can't do simple compare and contrast.

EDIT2: This is not a productive talk. Talking with a wall is more productive than this. Because at least no blatant bullshit comes back in my direction when I talk to it.

Frosted TipsAug 18, 20181 votes

Actually comical just because they are both supports doesn't mean inherently they are more similar than champions in two different classes.

If anything Thresh and Blitzcrank are like two different museums where they are called the same thing and have similar ideas but have way different exhibits compared to an impatiens plant and a New Guinea impatiens plant they may look a little different but they are almost identical in nature.

SEKAIAug 18, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Actually comical just because they are both supports doesn't mean inherently they are more similar than champions in two different classes.

If anything Thresh and Blitzcrank are like two different museums where they are called the same thing and have similar ideas but have way different exhibits compared to an impatiens plant and a New Guinea impatiens plant they may look a little different but they are almost identical in nature.

3 out of 4 spells of both champs are just alternative versions of each other, and they are both supports with almost identical function/uses and play pattern (combo, builds, whatever). How much more evidence do you need to say they are not copies?

What, you can look at 2 meat pies with slightly different seasonings and call them completely different things? And this wouldn't even be that big of a deal if you hadn't also basically called bread and cookies to be the same thing.

I don't get you, and I will never get you.

Frosted TipsAug 18, 20181 votes

Well Kha and Kai have 4 abilities that are similar and only their passives differ drastically. So idk how they are not similar.

Kai GuyAug 18, 20182 votes

I also disagree with you here on the blitz and thresh comparison Sekai. Thresh wants to use his Q to get into a fight, move at enemy team, get into he thick of things where his E and R are a factor. Blitz Q wants to pull targets out of a fight, best case for Blitz is to fog of war Q folks into teammates over terrain. He can get into a fight using his W, but its not ideal for him to do so Self CC and all + R silence is very short, E is single target and requires melee range, Q in a short range is pretty meh as it has no real CC component on it besides displacement, the Blitz q stun duration being 1/3 threshes.

The play pattern and windows thresh operate in best are not ideal for blitz. Blitz also has patterns thresh cant copy.

I am very vocal in my dislike for blitz, let me make that bias clear. Blitz makes the game feel like a 4 on 5 one way or another. Does badly with his Qs and he is a non factor and its not fun. Lands some Qs and its the strongest displacement on a basic ability in the game... and its strong from level 1 till game ends because of that fact. As long as death timers > q CD he is going to be an issue with out changes to his kit because everything is grossly power budgeted into that Q.

Theres a reason support mains see a blitz pick and insta lock some one like Morgana to counter. Cuz making his Q a weaker factor makes blitz mediocre.

Bringing your self and teammates into enemy's is a very different desire then bringing enemy's into you and your team. Its Needing follow up vs Forcing follow up.

Kurt HyzanAug 18, 20183 votes

Thresh is "popular" because he's overloaded LUL No support can bring both hard engage and hard peel

Frosted TipsAug 18, 20181 votes

Thresh is "popular" because he's overloaded LUL

No it is because he is fun he almost never has a good winrate anymore yet people still play him. The reason is he is fun and has options.

No support can bring both hard engage and hard peel

Alistar, Bard, Galio, Gragas, Lissandra, Nautilus, etc.

Kai GuyAug 18, 20182 votes

Janna Lulu Nautilus Blitzcrank Braum Fiddlesticks Leona Morgana TahmKench Zyra Alistar

Hard engages. I assume you mean the ability to start a fight in both lane and late game teamfights Via Hard CC (not slows)? Hard peel, I assume you mean the ability to hard CC a target on your back line?

Like... Pretty much any champion then that is a support and has atleast 2 forms of hard CC would work by the standard it appears your judging thresh by. What exactly is it on him that stands out? Hard engage requiring a skill shot to land? Plent of them. Ability to follow up on skillshot landing? Plenty of them. Ability to CC a threat on adc? Plenty of them.

Kurt HyzanAug 18, 20182 votes

Lantern to forgive your trash adc misplacement ? Hook that lasts for 5 hours ? Cage that slows for 99% ?

Kai GuyAug 18, 20181 votes

Lantern to save adc requires thresh back and away from threats. its of no use as an escape when he is being aggressive, or is close to adc.

Also man, A Adc being aggressive when thresh is hanging back and has lantern off cd is not trash placement its understanding your supports kit. A high number of supports who hang behind their adc have the ability to enable safety and aggression from the adc. I mean that's pretty much the entire enchanter class, all do that play pattern. Nami Janna Soraka Lulu

Several champions have point and click or skillshot CC with no windup, bigger hit boxes. Grossly Exaggerating the CC of 1.5 seconds is not gonna convince folks that he is more problematic then others with 2+ second CC ability's that land easier.

Slows are an issue? Reacting to your response that uses only 1 accurate number (99% slow) is it fair to assume you also hate Ziliean then?

Free GA for ADCS giving them up to MAX hp to forgive Trash misplacement. Large AOE stun that lasts for "5 hours," and does high damage. Point and click 99% slows for 5 fucking seconds! Assuming 1.5 = 5 hours that's like 15+ hours of 99% slows! Free on demand CDR. Oh and he also gives free exp making teammates get a free lead on lanes.

Talk about broken right? Oh wait, apparently it turns out the numbers on a champions kit has high impact on its viability. Crazy, whoa think that was important.

Edit. What am I wrong? Use the in game numbers if you got a complaint. Inaccurately (5 hours) describing things on paper is just gonna be misleading. I am aware most the time that's intentional.

chipndip1Aug 18, 20183 votes

I don't even consider Zoe a mistake from a game play stand point.

KVbqbFsC8eAug 18, 20182 votes

He makes champions with overloaded kits that are extremely unfun to play against. Just because he made Thresh, a champion with an overloaded kit that had to be nerfed a million times and was pick/ban for like two years doesn't change that fact.

Frosted TipsAug 18, 20182 votes

I'm saying that when he does create something overloaded be usually adds something to the game that is unique and has a good reason to exist and adds alot to the game. Honestly I bet you he is told to make these champions insane so that Riot can gauge what they like and dislike and what players like and dislike and CertainlyT just is the scapegoat.

saltranAug 18, 20181 votes

He made Caitlyn gameplay udpate, that's the only reason I kinda like him.

AcanthusAug 18, 20181 votes

I like his creativity and how his kits flow together. What I don't like is that he doesn't know where to stop (see: Yasuo ) before making fighting against his kits is unfun, and that the people above him don't seem to catch when his kits are overloaded and put the nerf hammer on them. I think when you have someone like CertainlyT making champs, you need a moderating force to keep it reasonable. That's not good or bad in a vacuum, as everyone has pros and cons about their job performance, but right now it's bad because of how there isn't said moderating force.

ShobekAug 18, 20181 votes

I'd be cool with CertainlyT if he wasn't REWORKING CHAMPIONS!!!! :)

Making them totally unrecognizable. Get him off of reworks. Just let him make his new champs.

When he reworks a champion their previous form is deleted; and a new champion in their skin is born.

King BraumAug 19, 20181 votes

I mean honestly a lot of CertainlyT's champions are fine, its mainly his design philosophy that doesnt agree with more traditional champions. If we had a game with champions only designed by CertainlyT it would probably be a lot of fun in my opinion, but that's not the case.