If the enemy team has like 3 drain tank based champions and nobody on your team buys any GW item?
Not as a first or second buy, but when you near third item or so after getting some support items. It doesn't really set back your build, since support items are pretty cheap. Also, my team and I ended up winning cause half the enemy became useless. Thoughts on this?
Chibi Bronzlife4 votesyes it is wrong, there are more efficient GW items for supports, maybe if you play MF support, but ap/utility supports can get morellos, and tank supports can get Bramble/thornmail
Need Gold 4 Tent1 votesPersonally, I find bramble vest to be more of a niche duelist item for bruisers than actual tanks. Coz, the GW only lasts one second and relies on the enemy autoattacking you consistently to reapply, which makes it unreliable. I would say EC is the most reliable coz it allows you to tag the target that needs it most, with the downside that you have to apply it one by one unless you have some sort of physical AoE, so it is not very efficient in practice. You can do it against a single high priority drain thank though, but dont bother getting it vs a full heal comp. Best leave it to the assassins/divers with physical aoe IMO, the best option as a support is still morellos.
Chibi Bronzlife2 votesexcept on tanks. tanks will still generally benefit more from BV.
Need Gold 4 Tent1 votesBut in that case, you're still better off with randuins while hoping for some one more efficient with EC on your team.
Chibi Bronzlife1 votesI disagree, but this is a preference debate now and those never accomplish anything
Weasel Kensei3 votesIv had to build it before on support. Low elo players dont understand counterbuilding at all. They will robot build the same thing every match, even if Diana is 17/1/5 they wont build ANY MR AT ALL. Not even a Maw if theyre AD. So when a Mundo jg, with Swain top, and Soraka support comp is wreking faces, they simply cant bother to spend 800 gold to shut that down...
Do what you gotta do. Even if its taking farm so you can build damage items with the passive you need. Now you can also choose thornmail, and brable for GW, if they hit you. Moro gives GW at 40% or less HP also, but Executioners C. is the only surefire way to apply GW on a target when you need it now.
Dont take this the wrong way, but dont ask questions you know the answer to on these forums. You will get a lot of dipshit answers about support this and support that nonsense. If youre in a game where your team is up against like Vlad, and Illaoi, and Aatrox and no one has and Executioners... I mean your team is idiots and you build whatever you think will help you win. I can tell you now youre probably going up at least 2 more tiers if your in an elo where youre having to counterbuild on support, and you know enough to do it.
Frap Achiino2 votes[{quoted}](name=Weasel Kensei,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fy6WF0Hb,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-07-17T04:56:16.242+0000)
Iv had to build it before on support. Low elo players dont understand counterbuilding at all. They will robot build the same thing every match, even if Diana is 17/1/5 they wont build ANY MR AT ALL. Not even a Maw if theyre AD. So when a Mundo jg, with Swain top, and Soraka support comp is wreking faces, they simply cant bother to spend 800 gold to shut that down...
Do what you gotta do. Even if its taking farm so you can build damage items with the passive you need. Now you can also choose thornmail, and brable for GW, if they hit you. Moro gives GW at 40% or less HP also, but Executioners C. is the only surefire way to apply GW on a target when you need it now.
Dont take this the wrong way, but dont ask questions you know the answer to on these forums. You will get a lot of dipshit answers about support this and support that nonsense. If youre in a game where your team is up against like Vlad, and Illaoi, and Aatrox and no one has and Executioners... I mean your team is idiots and you build whatever you think will help you win. I can tell you now youre probably going up at least 2 more tiers if your in an elo where youre having to counterbuild on support, and you know enough to do it.
Praise Jesus, this is so true, I hate lord dominicks so much, adcs always buy that crap item, even when executioners will win teamfights.....
One Ashe On3 votesIt's far from wrong ! You are here to support your team and carry! If they don't build anything to counter sustain and you can easily poke with like 
or whatever support that you can freely auto attack either at distance or are bulky enought to face them, go for it. Your team will probly honor you for that !
Shadòw3 votesit only applies on physical damage, so as long as you don't have a reliable way to apply it, it is wasted gold.
Itsbeghdev1 votesCan't think of a support who doesn't have a basic attack. It'd definitely be worse on melee supports and Rakan than on others though.
Shadòw2 votesyes but as Support you usually don't basic attack. especially enchanters usually stay out of basic attack Range completely.
it's better to get another support item and ask your ADC to get a 
.
when your ADC completely refuses to build it then it might be an option, but it is far from optimal.
Linna Excel3 votesIf your team needs GW, no one is buying and you are playing a ranged support, it's not optimal but your situation suggests you should get it. AP supports are probably going to get morellos though.
MrHaZeYo2 votesMF support buys it.
Pie Cubed2 votesMF support buys it.
Bought it on a Bard game and just autoattacked everything after my rotation of spells was done. I mean on other supports. You have to remember to weave in autoattacks on the drain tanks, but otherwise I don't see too much of a downside aside from one less item.
Chibi Bronzlife1 votesthen you should have bought morellos instead, more efficient statwise on support bard.
rtbf2216514121 votes[{quoted}](name=Chibi Bronzlife,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fy6WF0Hb,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-17T04:45:48.841+0000)
then you should have bought morellos instead, more efficient statwise on support bard.
Is it? Because I've seen on hit bard.
And I harass as hell with Soraka so building it on her with my build would work too. I'd replace with Morellos later because price.
This is assuming my lane needed it, which I haven't been in that situation.
Chibi Bronzlife1 votesOnhit bard isn't played support though. It's generally an off-meta toplane pick. Also, you really shouldn't be in range to auto-attack on raka, raka is highly vulnerable due to the mechanics of her kit.
rtbf2216514121 votes[{quoted}](name=Chibi Bronzlife,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fy6WF0Hb,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-17T05:04:44.564+0000)
Onhit bard isn't played support though. It's generally an off-meta toplane pick. Also, you really shouldn't be in range to auto-attack on raka, raka is highly vulnerable due to the mechanics of her kit.
5.09:1 K/D/A
30 games
highly vulnerable
Has peels
Q heals
k
Chibi Bronzlife3 votesJust because you haven't been punished yet doesn't mean it won't happen as you climb. There is a reason when Soraka was played in LCS that they avoided moving into auto-attack range often.
rtbf2216514122 votes[{quoted}](name=Chibi Bronzlife,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fy6WF0Hb,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-17T05:13:59.162+0000)
Just because you haven't been punished yet doesn't mean it won't happen as you climb. There is a reason when Soraka was played in LCS that they avoided moving into auto-attack range often.
Cause E'ing on myself isnt a thing.
Chibi Bronzlife2 votesthat, doesn't protect you from all things, you could be bursted while standing in your e, I know, because I've done it to sorakas that thought they could hide in their e.
rtbf2216514122 votes[{quoted}](name=Chibi Bronzlife,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fy6WF0Hb,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-17T05:19:13.809+0000)
that, doesn't protect you from all things, you could be bursted while standing in your e, I know, because I've done it to sorakas that thought they could hide in their e.
No way? Say it isn't so?
Meanwhile most Soraka's dont build like me. My stoneborn pact ardent proc will last even when I am dead.
Paroe1 votes[{quoted}](name=Chibi Bronzlife,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fy6WF0Hb,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-17T05:13:59.162+0000)
Just because you haven't been punished yet doesn't mean it won't happen as you climb. There is a reason when Soraka was played in LCS that they avoided moving into auto-attack range often.
^ I played soraka today (I bloody hate soraka...) And got an S-. All i did, the entire game, was stand behind my carry (ashe in lane, tryndamere in team fights) and spam W with some Es to stop katarina ults and some Qs to slow engaging/dueling enemies. Soraka is braindead easy, that being said getting into AA range with her is extremely risky due to low base stats.
rtbf2216514121 votes^ I played soraka today (I bloody hate soraka...) And got an S-. All i did, the entire game, was stand behind my carry (ashe in lane, tryndamere in team fights) and spam W with some Es to stop katarina ults and some Qs to slow engaging/dueling enemies. Soraka is braindead easy, that being said getting into AA range with her is extremely risky due to low base stats.
Easy?
Here, let's play a game together and you will see how much harder it is to punish Soraka if you position well, kite well, attack like a wasp, build differently, and peel well.
Most people run from my Soraka even when I am in range.
Frap Achiino1 votesEasy?
Here, let's play a game together and you will see how much harder it is to punish Soraka if you position well, kite well, attack like a wasp, build differently, and peel well.
Most people run from my Soraka even when I am in range.
executioners is the counter to soraka, get one, you make her useless
rtbf2216514122 votes[{quoted}](name=Frap Achiino,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fy6WF0Hb,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-07-17T14:42:08.301+0000)
executioners is the counter to soraka, get one, you make her useless
You can't make my Soraka useless with that. Sorry, but again, I don't play her the way you guys think I do. Look up my match history.
Itsbeghdev1 votesHeh, heals aren't just a number... ardent censer is tragically underappreciated sometimes, lol
Itsbeghdev1 votesBut Morellonomicon is a more expensive item so it'll really get in the way of getting other items in a timely fashion, plus its GW only applies on targets under 35% health so it's overall a worse answer to too much healing if it's not in your build anyways.
Weasel Kensei1 votes"MF support" isnt really supporting... its something they do in pro games as a counter to the opponet support, pretty much Zyra support. So the first team to get Zyra support, sees a counter MF pick. Since that team is stuck with an MF support, they get built as an "Ult bot" to apply GW and Black Cleaver shred to the enemy team... but MF isnt a functional support in a solo que setting.
rtbf2216514121 votes[{quoted}](name=Weasel Kensei,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fy6WF0Hb,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-07-17T04:45:56.319+0000)
"MF support" isnt really supporting... its something they do in pro games as a counter to the opponet support, pretty much Zyra support. So the first team to get Zyra support, sees a counter MF pick. Since that team is stuck with an MF support, they get built as an "Ult bot" to apply GW and Black Cleaver shred to the enemy team... but MF isnt a functional support in a solo que setting.
Until you realize most of your team is AD. GASP.
Weasel Kensei2 votesNo, not even if most of your team is AD. You would still just be waiting around for the ult to be useful.
Would be better off with a support that has utility available more often, and more useful than being an armor shred ult bot.
After MF was played in a support position in a pro game, I saw a rash of it... nearly every person who saw it though "pros did it, must be OP" and they jumped on it and fucked up their lanes hard... why, cause they do it to counter Zyra. Funny part is, last pro match that had an MF counter pick to Zyra lost that lane hard. So its not even a super dominate counter. Thinking its legit is just a fantasy, possibly a delusion.
Still, Im sure there are a bunch of people who will go to the mat defending MF as a legit support even if its just a pro play counter pick strategy that isnt even a reliable counterpick and no one plays it because its terrible.
Chibi Bronzlife1 votesI disagree, I have a pretty good success rate on MF support.
Weasel Kensei1 votes[{quoted}](name=Chibi Bronzlife,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fy6WF0Hb,comment-id=000000010001,timestamp=2017-07-17T05:20:27.817+0000)
I disagree, I have a pretty good success rate on MF support.
Well I disagree with your statement that you have a pretty good success rate on MF support....
I looked at your match history, and you have no normal games on her, and youre 4/5 as in 4 wins and 5 losses on MF support in ranked... Not flaming you, but you have a negative win rate 46% or so according to LoLKing and maybe doing stuff like MF support (and thinking youre success rate is pretty good at 4/5) is part of why your win% is negative... MF support ISNT GOOD, and your "success rate" also ISNT GOOD doing it.
Again, Im not flaming you, not calling you bad... but dont argue with me about MF support being good with anecdotal evidence that proves otherwise, its a waste of time for everyone involved.
Chibi Bronzlife1 votesactually, last I checked (based on the LOL client) I'm at a 50% winrate out of 8 games on MF and I don't play ADC, so your third party referencing isn't accurate, so before you try to prove someone wrong maybe consider that the source you are using is wrong. 50% winrate is a good target winrate for any champion you play. Though I feel like you did waste my time by making me actually look at LOL client again just to confirm what I already knew.
Your attitude here is all negative. You're arguing that a champion isn't good in a role based on your biased opinion on the matter. That could either stem from your personal negative experience, or by the fact that you're unaccostumed to seeing working builds on her. Yes, there is less reason to play MF support now that the meta is slowly shifting away from the burst supports from what I've seen, but is she successful? Yes. and isn't success what determines the validity of a pick? Sure success is subjective based on the individual but so is everything else.
Weasel Kensei1 votesIll give you that you may have only played 8 games of MF support this year... as i missed the date on the last match being in 2015...
This is my super inaccurate source...
http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-history/NA1/205840823?champion=21&matchType=2
You know, the league match history attached to your account. That last match on the bottom may have been as a carry. Target win rate of 50%? I mean thats a really low bar... A target would be at least 51% I would think for most people, as 50% is stagnant, one step forward, one step back. I mean if your target is 49% or lower then your goal is to lose. If its 51% or higher then your goal is to win. If your target is 50%, then your goal is to... waste time.
Aside from that, look at your Janna games. Much better stats, and that means youre actually, you know, helping the team more. I have this "its totaly viable" argument with other gamers all the time and my go to is, "Sure, you CAN defeat your opponents with a Kentucky blackpowder rifle, and actually win... but you could also do so with a better gun more easily. So while you CAN, it doesnt mean its as good. If it isnt as good, then youre merely "getting by" with your own abilities, and therefore doesnt mean its a viable choice in general."
I mean I can debate people on MF support being a legitimate pick. I cant however be bothered to debate merits of much of anything with someone who comes out and says "50% win rate is a good target winrate." So you win, Im out before I get suckered into weeding out the validity of the number 7 vs the color blue, or apples vs dragons.
Chibi Bronzlife1 votesyou said your source was lolking, then you come back and try to claim that you were using the riot match history? No, you do not get a pass for trying to play that off when called out on it.
I know my skill level as a gamer, I know where I belong in the ranks. I am where I belong so getting a 50% winrate on a champion when I am at the rank I belong is not wasting time, it is proving that I am where I belong.
MF support has always been a highly stylized support meant for certain scenarios to combat certain champions and mechanics in those scenarios MF is viable.
Weasel Kensei1 votes.... ugh, fine...
I looked at your match history, and you have no normal games on her, and youre 4/5 as in 4 wins and 5 losses on MF support in ranked...
There is a match history link on everyones name on these forums... its official LoL stats tied directly to your match history going back to account creation. Its the first thing I looked at.
Then.
Another sentence came along.
Not flaming you, but you have a negative win rate 46% or so according to LoLKing and maybe doing stuff like MF support (and thinking youre success rate is pretty good at 4/5) is part of why your win% is negative...
http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/43370407/Chibi%20Bronzlife#/profile
Thats not a MF support win% reference, thats YOUR win% overall.
So there you go. I didnt "claim" I was using Riot match history, it was in my statement. You can filter by normals, and ranked, and thats how I knew you "have no normal games on her" as I originally said... not some random switch up bro. Its what I said I did.
Then.
I checked LoLKing... to get a quick look at your seasonal performance. It said 46% at the time.
Here is your op.gg...
https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Chibi+Bronzlife
Also says 46%. That super arcane % is achieved by comparing the number of ranked games played, vs the wins/losses.
So Im sorry I didnt give you a step by step... oh wait I did. I checked your match history, then gave you your win% according to LoLKing...
Also thank you for the number 3 point... thats my point.
Thats why I have said many times MF support isnt a thing. If I said "OK Pick 3 support champs for the charity blind pick tournament, and you may only play those supports for the durration of the tournament" I highly doubt you would want to throw in MF support. Why? Cause shes a counterpick... and highly specialized counterpicks arent viable 89% of the time. Therefore its more accurate to say counterpicks are viable, instead of saying MF in an off meta role is viable.
Enjoy scouring the post for more conspiracies about what I said, then saying I said something else...
Chibi Bronzlife1 votesactually you'd be surprised what I'd pull out, I'm very versatile for a support only player. I'd pull some left field shit for the insanity factor with one meta pick.
Tribbles Foxfolk2 votesMF support buys it.
MF support is also not a thing, was never a thing, and will never be a thing. Even in its "peak", it was a gimmick at best and a liability in every case. You either won the lane confidently (very rare) or lost it horrifically.
Using MF support as an argument is like using Bard ADC: it can work, it's just not at all good.
MrHaZeYo1 votesNo it was very much a Meta pick for awhile lol, it's still good against Zyra and Malz
Tribbles Foxfolk2 votesNo it was very much a Meta pick for awhile lol, it's still good against Zyra and Malz
Except it wasn't meta, it was just a niche pick in a pro game that got popular due to Malzahar being a must-pick. As soon as Malz got nerfed, MF support wasn't playable anymore. It's too greedy. Malzahar support at least offers some CC whether you fall behind in lane or not. MF doesn't have that luxury. She either gets fed with her ADC or the enemy is 10/0 by 10 minutes.
MrHaZeYo2 votesExcept she was meta as both Malz and Zyra where meta picks and she was picked to counter them. Of course as they fall out of the meta she will too. It's really not much different then how Morg bursted on the support scene as a support, she was picked to counter the likes of Thresh, Bruam, Leo, Ali, and Bard, although she does offer more utility then MF (Although the ability to shred someones/a whole teams armor is pretty good for her ADC)
Paroe2 votes@thread Of course it isnt. As the support, you are expendable and your build doesnt particularly matter. Fill the gap your team refuses to fill.
Weasel Kensei1 votes[deleted]
Paroe1 votes[{quoted}](name=Weasel Kensei,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Fy6WF0Hb,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-07-17T04:47:39.469+0000)
The OP ask is it ever wrong, and you say "Of course it is."
Then say "Fill the gap your team refuses to fill." If that gap is GW, your first sentence says its wrong...
Sorry, im tired. Excuse me forgetting "nt."
Weasel Kensei1 votesAh, well, that makes much more sense, Ill just delete that post now.
Killed Inaction2 votesI disagree thoroughly with your second sentence, but I see what you're getting at and understand the overall point.
The support is not expendable; they can be easily as important as any of the other players. Just in different ways. You bring much-needed utility to the team composition.
If the build doesn't particularly matter, that means it's of no significance whether or not he builds it. The build matters a lot. I think what you mean to say is that the build isn't particularly static; it's more flexible than the builds of most other roles'.
Again, I get your point, but it's important to make sure the message gets across with clarity and accuracy.
Pie Cubed2 votesTo those of you saying to get Morello's if you give it some thought, it's rather impractical.
Way more expensive
I need the GW right away to stop the enemy from annihilating my team and soaking up all the damage like it's nothing
No easy way to get the drain tanks down to the health thresholds for the GW to work right away
Takes one autoattack and my team will be pretty safe from the drain tank for a bit
Kuzja11 votesMight as well build it to 
Itsbeghdev1 voteslol