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Noob Discusses New Evelynn

ItsMaybelline··4 votes·870 views

Personally i think she's awesome. Her kit is everything an assassin needs. She has a high risk, high reward ganking kit built around her charm. It allows the enemy to prevent it since it isn't a Warwick ult into a kill. You can see it coming and if your smart you can predict it and even counter it. Her ult is a GTFO and a damaging ability giving her an escape without making it impossible to pin her down. She can't gank before six so she's weak to counter jungling and once she uses her ult she can't gank safely. I think she's a good take on an assassin. I'm a noob so i might be wrong but the reason Riot doesn't like assassin's is because they aren't reliant on team skill, right? Evelynn fixes that. Her 1v1 ganks are great but smart players can bait her diving them by running to a hidden ally or jungler while they're charmed (as in her W has been applied but the second cast hasn't). I see her ganks going several ways:

  1. Eve charms the target, CC's and kills them.
  2. Eve charms the target however he escapes due to map awareness, game sense, good positioning, etc.
  3. Eve ganks a lane however due to her reliance on her ult and flash to escape she wastes it due to the gank going south. This could again be because of game sense, good positioning, vision, or even your own jungler.
  4. Your own jungler waits for her to gank you and as a result the gank results in feeding your ADC or putting her behind.

I like the knew Evelynn because she feels fair to me. She doesn't just show up, kill someone and leave with no counterplay. Her charm is her main way of getting a gank and if she messes it up then she can't gank and everyone knows where she is, not so invisible now are you? Her only way out of a gank gone south is flash and her ult. Using flash is seriously wasteful and her ult isn't exactly on a low cooldown either so once she uses either you can count on her playing a bit safer assuming she's smart.

Don't get me wrong, i'm really new to League. I started playing when Xayah and Rakan came out although i stopped playing for a couple months after that so i'm even newer than that but i'm curious to hear what everyone thinks. I don't have much knowledge of the meta, whose OP/UP at the moment, and other things like that so her actual quality as a champion could be worse or better than i think. Hell, maybe she scales stupidly well making her OP and i don't even know, but nonetheless i think she's fun as hell to play.

28 Comments

xJLx MCHammer2 votes

She's fine right now. However, it's a bad meta to be a invisible jungler because everyone is sticking together. Come late game, very few people play split pushing champion.

Her effectiveness drops.

ItsMaybelline1 votes

[{quoted}](name=xJLx MCHammer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FrMG7vvh,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-10-14T21:36:10.845+0000)

She's fine right now. However, it's a bad meta to be a invisible jungler because everyone is sticking together. Come late game, very few people play split pushing champion.

Her effectiveness drops.

Idk about the meta but i could see how she drops in and out of combat to invis then gank again being very powerful in the right situations. She essentially has the ability in her kit to gank in a teamfight which is huge. Now i'm not sure if that's actually practical since terrain, the state of the fight, and other things play a big fight but say we were in a very tanky and slow team fight. Her ability to get behind and eliminate someone would be extremely powerful. However in a team fight where the safety of your team hinges on split second decisions and everyone is squishy then she wouldn't have enough time to get behind everyone due to how fast the team fight happens. So she would be best in a team fight that hits that middle ground, not too tanky or squishy. It would have to be tweaked as metas come and go but it has the ability to be tweaked to any meta.

Dope Solo1 votes

I played Eve a lot before the rework. The stealth before 6 wasn't a big deal to me because i was usually farming up to 6 anyway. On that subject, her jungle clear is much improved and she's probably just as good at the early clear as any average jg now (I'm guessing). I think the Ult is cool, but just a tad weak because it can be difficult to secure kills, but then it pops you out of the battle. Of the reworked skills, the new R is definitely better than E and W, which just seem a bit...lacking. While understandably, the original E had about the same range, it currently just isn't long enough to hit anything that you aren't already standing next to without some kind of gap closer, and the W could use a small buff by about .5-.75 seconds to activate. Kit is really missing that important mobility buff. I've found the only thing W is really good at is scaring the enemy front liner into backing up. Asides from that, she's still a tiny paper wasp, and folds even faster than she used to when collapsed upon in team fights, rendering her to the periphery without much impact.

Still fun, I'm trying to optimize the playstyle. I don't expect her to ever be a 'meta' champ in this condition though.

ItsMaybelline1 votes

{quoted}

I played Eve a lot before the rework. The stealth before 6 wasn't a big deal to me because i was usually farming up to 6 anyway. On that subject, her jungle clear is much improved and she's probably just as good at the early clear as any average jg now (I'm guessing). I think the Ult is cool, but just a tad weak because it can be difficult to secure kills, but then it pops you out of the battle. Of the reworked skills, the new R is definitely better than E and W, which just seem a bit...lacking. While understandably, the original E had about the same range, it currently just isn't long enough to hit anything that you aren't already standing next to without some kind of gap closer, and the W could use a small buff by about .5-.75 seconds to activate. Kit is really missing that important mobility buff. I've found the only thing W is really good at is scaring the enemy front liner into backing up. Asides from that, she's still a tiny paper wasp, and folds even faster than she used to when collapsed upon in team fights, rendering her to the periphery without much impact.

Still fun, I'm trying to optimize the playstyle. I don't expect her to ever be a 'meta' champ in this condition though.

I do agree that she's irrelevant if focused. I picture her dancing around the fight activating her invisibility, ganking, disappearing and repeating. This is hard to balance since it hinges on how much mobility and HP the current meta/ enemy comp has. If everyone is grouped up and no one is squishy then she would need to invis fast and damage even faster.

Dope Solo1 votes

And that's really it. Everyone is grouped up, and finding a target just isn't possible much of the time. The W can shake up that aggregate some, by forcing a frontliner to the back for a few seconds, but how relevant is that? Alternatively, I've had some success with the stealth split under these conditions, or a solo drag. Clean up works, but you're either a second too late losing a team mate, or stealing kills. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

ItsMaybelline1 votes

{quoted}

And that's really it. Everyone is grouped up, and finding a target just isn't possible much of the time. The W can shake up that aggregate some, by forcing a frontliner to the back for a few seconds, but how relevant is that? Alternatively, I've had some success with the stealth split under these conditions, or a solo drag. Clean up works, but you're either a second too late losing a team mate, or stealing kills. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

So how would you balance it to be effective in this meta? It's easy to say if everyone played ADC then she would be better but purely in this meta, what does she need?

Dope Solo1 votes

For now, to stay out of the fight and clean up. Wait for someone to step out too far. Or, throw out some wards and prepare for the next fight. Stealth split a weak tower, kill a dragon. Score some CS. Otherwise you're getting popped up and you're dead before you come down.

Overall, its the W that needs just a little help. Every level gives you range on it (right)?. Why? So you can use it from further away? You still have to hit a second time to activate it, with a skill that never gets any closer. That seems a little like, you're not getting much value for puttign points in it. Thats the worst thing I think. As badly as you want to get in the fight, you're stuck at Q range. This is... ok ..., if you have a tank on your team (not really safe or satisfying).

The other thing I really miss is being able to spam Q and score hits while being ran down when you have almost no hope of survival. Turning around for a skillshot first just isn't feasible a majority of the time, and the good w is gone.

ItsMaybelline1 votes

So how would you fix this? Maybe boost the range on her empowered E? I like the extra range on W. Often times i due it from river and the enemy thinks i'm near tower so they run up lane right into me. I'm starting to see how unversatile her kit is though. Unlike Mark Of The Kindred, she has to be near to activate her charm and she lacks the range to actually proc it. This means she's very situational in her effectiveness due to her lack of range and reliance on the enemies being positioned in a way that allows you to gank them

Dope Solo1 votes

E, idk maybe. I still think the delay time on the charm is too long. As soon as you hit anybody with it, they're generally running the other way. When you do land the proc, the effect is so transient its barely there at all. Its just not a strong effect. When I think about it, I compare it to existing charms on Ahri. Its a skill shot, but the effect is instant and the strength/duration of the effect is practically forever.

ItsMaybelline1 votes

Even if the ability for them to run is bad, i think it serves a purpose. The mind game for having a way to secure a kill revolves around not getting in a checkmate situation. Let's say her W wasn't a charm but was something else that all but guarentee'd a kill. Let's say it removed magic resistance for the duration of the charm completely (I know this is op, but it's just a hypothetical to get my point across). This would make the charm extremely powerful. It would give her a kill and getting it off would revolve around either the enemy laner not being caught out when the jungler is missing/nearby or teammates working to stop the gank. Evelynn would be trying to catch him in those types of situations. It would have to be weaker than a Blitzcrank pull or a Thresh hook since it could be pulled off without any teamwork but it should still be able to secure a kill better than just trading abilities until one of you gets weak enough. This play with the enemy having a chance to escape is what i think the Assassin characters need. It shouldn't be as simple as show up, get kills. Their needs to be a prerequisite or mindgame involved that is a bit skewed against the assassin. That way anyone who is ganked in lane isn't instantly dead because they missed one ward.

ItsMaybelline1 votes

I think assassin characters in order to always be relevant need to constantly be balanced so that their damage and mobility suit the meta. A tanky meta would mean they need more damage and more mobility whereas in a squishier meta that damage and mobility would make them too powerful.

ItsMaybelline1 votes

I'm starting to get how hard assassin's are to balance from this thread.

Karn Bishop1 votes

{quoted}

Personally i think she's awesome. Her kit is everything an assassin ADC needs. She has a high risk, high **low **reward ganking kit built around her charm. It allows the enemy to prevent it since it isn't a Warwick ult into a kill. You can see it coming and if your smart you can predict it and even counter it. Her ult is a GTFO and a damaging ability giving her an escape without making it impossible to pin her down. She can't gank before six so she's weak to counter jungling and once she uses her ult she can't gank safely. I think she's a good take on an assassin. I'm a noob so i might be wrong but the reason Riot doesn't like assassin's is because they aren't reliant on team skill, right? Evelynn fixes that. Her 1v1 ganks are great but smart players can bait her diving them by running to a hidden ally or jungler while they're charmed (as in her W has been applied but the second cast hasn't). I see her ganks going several ways:

  1. Eve charms the target, CC's and kills them.
  2. Eve charms the target however he escapes due to map awareness, game sense, good positioning, etc. not being in bronze.
  3. Eve ganks a lane however due to her reliance on her ult and flash to escape she wastes it due to the gank going south. This could again be because of game sense, good positioning, vision, or even your own jungler.
  4. Your own jungler waits for her to gank you and as a result the gank results in feeding your ADC or putting her behind.

I like the knew Evelynn because she feels fair to me. She doesn't just show up, kill someone and leave with no counterplay. Her charm is her main way of getting a gank and if she messes it up then she can't gank and everyone knows where she is, not so invisible now are you? Her only way out of a gank gone south is flash and her ult. Using flash is seriously wasteful and her ult isn't exactly on a low cooldown either so once she uses either you can count on her playing a bit safer assuming she's smart.

Don't get me wrong, i'm really new to League. I started playing when Xayah and Rakan came out although i stopped playing for a couple months after that so i'm even newer than that but i'm curious to hear what everyone thinks. I don't have much knowledge of the meta, whose OP/UP at the moment, and other things like that so her actual quality as a champion could be worse or better than i think. Hell, maybe she scales stupidly well making her OP and i don't even know, but nonetheless i think she's fun as hell to play.

I made a few corrections, otherwise sounds about right.

ItsMaybelline1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Karn Bishop,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FrMG7vvh,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-10-15T01:49:41.659+0000)

I made a few corrections, otherwise sounds about right.

No need to be a jerk about it. This thread is called a NOOB discusses the new evelynn. Why the criticism and toxicity? I said assassin because her kit is catered to ganking and killing a laner. I said high risk, high reward because she has the potential to remove an enemy player of value. Now this might not be entirely practical but even if it risk your team being wiped so you can kill one player it's still high risk high reward.

Karn Bishop1 votes

Then you misunderstand high risk high reward, pulling off such a maneuver should net high reward such as a kill on a target but as eve exists now adc can usually survive the burst even without shielding, secondly her being less effective at silver and above due to map awareness is just fact and not "jerk / toxic" just how it is.

From a power perspective as eve exists now you cannot justify picking her over say xin, reksai, lee, ect ect. they all do what she does just as well if not better with less conditions for success cases.

Yukínose1 votes

The difference is she's able to get into Q1 range without being seen. That's her huge benefit over other junglers.

Karn Bishop1 votes

Not particularly a strength and its terribly easy to dodge or just fight in minions.

Yukínose1 votes

It is when they have no clue where you're coming from. Why would they know to hide behind a particular caster minion? Why would they know where to dodge from?

Do not say the direction indicator, btw.

Karn Bishop1 votes

Ok well they got a tower to their back, a thresh to their left towards river so that eliminates those two options which leaves running at you from lane or trying to run past thresh and nobody's dumb enough to try that.

You could try your luck top i suppose but likely the enemy junglers fishing up there as well so thats basically suicide.

Mid then? hard to do especially if the enemy laner has good range harass and solid CC combos so likely your laners playing it safe and if the safe laner starts going aggro out of nowhere well eve's probably near and looping around back of from the side so start walking to tower and you'll be just fine given how short lane is.

Team fights then? attempt to go in first with surprise stealth protobelt and a charm? well they see the charm and ensure it doesn't happen, let your team tank ( if you have one given how popular enchanters and fighters top are ) and the rest of the team start the fight 4 v 5 and hold out long enough for a good opportunity to cook charm and wait 2.5 more seconds? thats a lot of time in the team fight realm, enough time that your sudden arrival cannot turn the tides anymore.

This also discounts pink wards in the side jungle bush edges which can see eve without alerting her and who the enemy jungler is because your not going to win any counter ganks vs most primary junglers.

ItsMaybelline1 votes

I'm a noob so i have a few questions, one what are pink wards? The wiki says they were removed yet everyone is still talking about them so i don't think thats true. Second, Evelynn's invisibility is undermined by how her damage isn't anything special and her movement speed is the same as everyone else's. If you turn invisible in a corner then it doesn't take faker to figure out based on geography where you went. Now most of the jungle is comprised of short hallways so even I understand how weak the invisibility is. Her Q doesn't even do much damage IMO. It's weird how i feels less impactful to me than Bard, my most played character, Q.

Karn Bishop1 votes

we consider pink/ item 2055 interchangable since they do the same thing to camo champs only.

ItsMaybelline1 votes

To camo champs only?

Kai Guy1 votes

Ahoy, you might enjoy a look over this. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Stealth

ItsMaybelline1 votes

So the issue is her lack of damage, inability to secure a kill, and what she does being done better by everyone else? That about cover it?

Karn Bishop1 votes

Basically yes, you new eve mains make the argument that she is fun and i make the argument that she has no place in league to be successful as, you won't regularly climb the ladder with her because most of the roster wont allow for her to do her "intended gameplay" and most high level players have already come to this conclusion and have said new eves good fun to play but don't expect to be climbinb the ladder with her or winning games vs most jungler matchups, pick her only when the enemy team is highly immobile.

I'm sure you see the problem with picking a champion only into low mobility team comps, heck i believe thats the exact same advice other trash tier junglers like volibear/udyr get.

TruelyTrueTrueth1 votes

im not really a new eve main i think i have a 55% winrate with evelynn in general but a 47% winrate when the reworked evelyn came out though im not sure becuase i dont even know how that whole thing works but i do say that i main eve yeah ive played her a lot before the rework and ive been playing quite a bit after the rework evelynn design is just so intriguing; lore and gameplay

Reworked Evelynn does not lack damage she just lacks utility and i've played a quite a few games of evelynn so im sure on that especially now that a whole lot of champions in league are highly mobile or mobile enough that they can escape a sticky situation it is hard to catch up with your target because she has no real gap closer (and don't say her E please you should already know why) if she uses her ult as a gap closer well now she has lost a lot of her damage but more importantly, she has no escape now assuming the enemy team is near

every time i play eve i find myself having problems with her charm

her charm takes a bit a too long to charge up her charm is the hardest thing to hit, there's almost no point of her having a charm it takes 2.5 seconds and thats a whole lot of time for the enemy to react by the time the charm is ready the enemy is already all the way at their tower or behind a whole bunch of minions or already made it to there teammates and when that happens the only way to hit the charm is if you walk right up to the enemy and E or waste your first active on Q and lose the bonus damage and use the automatic targeting Q thing to hit the charm (sometimes i just place the w on an enemy just to scare them away for a bit so they dont get too close to me even when i know i cant do anything to them; but yet they run away)

another issue with her W is that every point you put into it also increases your W range... though i dont mind it as much, cant lie its kind of useless your already invisble playing eve you can stand right next to them outside of stealth range waiting for the charm; it doesnt matter if you use her w from a far they're never gonna know putting points into W is only good for jungle clears but still thats not even that great

what i do think that could really really help eve is if the charm took less time to charge up (like maybe 1 second or 1.5 seconds) or give eve high ms boost in stealth form (she's really missing that movespeed buff; you can barely feel it when you use your e too) or increase the range on the first active on her Q even her empowered e could maybe use a little bit of range when empowered so ya know the dash is more noticeable; plus more reliable gap closer. evelynn charm takes more skill, thinking, and risk to land compared to other charms; so i think to reward someone when it does land is to make it so the charm lasts longer like ahri charm last longer or have it do a small amount of damage when landed or make it so the enemy is slowed even when out of charm for like a second

one of those things could really help eve imo; would you agree? im not trying to say evelynn is a bad champion entirely because she isn't if she just gets a minor buff to her charm or utility (ms, range, gap closer, etc), then it could really drastically change her from being, the champion that most other champions do her job better, to being Evelynn the widow maker but riot wont care because its their game they do what they want

ItsMaybelline1 votes

I'm by no means an Eve main. I enjoy Jungler but that's only because it's the only role where i truly determine how much impact i have with little ramifications if my team is doing bad. That being said i understand what everyone is saying about her W, E, and lack of utility. I think to fix her W it either needs less time to trigger or a longer range on her E. I find her E to suck since the range is abysmally. It's basically an AP auto attack on a cooldown. I think her E should be an engage, however i like the fact that it only does the engage while in stealth. Maybe fiddling with what parts of her abilities work in stealth and out of it may make her better but she should get some CC somewhere.

TruelyTrueTrueth1 votes

yes she is fun but she isn't good

i believe her charm is the problem

her charm is the hardest thing to hit, there's almost no point of her having a charm it takes 2.5 seconds and thats a whole lot of time for the enemy to react by the time the charm is ready the enemy is already all the way at their tower or behind a whole bunch of minions or already made it to there teammates and when that happens the only way to hit the charm is if you walk right up to the enemy and E or waste your first active on Q and lose the bonus damage and use the automatic targeting Q thing to hit the charm

what i do think that could really really help eve is if the charm took less time to charge up (like maybe 1 second or 1.5 seconds) or give eve high ms boost in stealth form or increase the range on the first active on her Q

one of those 3 things could really help eve imo but riot wont care because its their game they do what they want

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