Will riot ever be doing a support class update?

thacrazytaco·Sep 5, 2016·33 votes·2,588 views

Something to make their playstyle more fun and engaging? and one day "fill" won't mean "support"? Maybe after the diver update?

63 Comments

Deep Terror NamiSep 5, 201626 votes

If you don't enjoy Support that's fine, there are other roles. Don't take Support away from the rest of us because you don't like it please! If you find Support boring, maybe you're just playing it wrong.

S0kaXSep 5, 20168 votes

[{quoted}](name=Deep Terror Nami,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FkIFayEX,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-09-05T19:58:51.462+0000)

If you don't enjoy Support that's fine, there are other roles. Don't take Support away from the rest of us because you don't like it please! If you find Support boring, maybe you're just playing it wrong.

I main support and this comment describes me

JVP15Sep 5, 20163 votes

On one level, I agree. You should only play the roles you enjoy. However, there is a large lack of supports in LoL, and it would be great if the support role would appeal to a wider range of people so that I don't get an instant queue time when I support, but I also get a nicer queue time when I ADC.

Warlord ZudaneSep 6, 20163 votes

The problem is that support is by definition not a glory role, it's a supporting rule. People like glory and recognition, which is hard to get as a support.

It really isn't the fact that supports are boring but that people don't like to play that type of role often. It seems pretty much every game is lacking in supports compared to any other playstyle. People want to be the one taking the killing shots, not the one setting up the killing shots.

hhaavviikkSep 6, 20161 votes

some supports don't feel satisfying(to me at least), take Soraka for example, standing around my ADC spamming W doesn't feel satisfying in the slightest, it felt way better when it had a longer cooldown, healed for more and granted temporary armor buff.

dapositivevikingSep 6, 20161 votes

the change to regen feels very satisfying, seeing the speed difference between her base and her empowered health regen is cool

Bladerunner7777Sep 6, 20161 votes

I still think Sona and Soraka need REAL reworks and not tunings that make them OP for a few patches

manbearswineSep 6, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Zudane,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FkIFayEX,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2016-09-06T01:54:52.642+0000)

The problem is that support is by definition not a glory role, it's a supporting rule.

Just because it is that way doesn't mean it has to be that way.

Warlord ZudaneSep 7, 20161 votes

So we just need to redefine a word, you mean?

manbearswineSep 7, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Zudane,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FkIFayEX,comment-id=00020001000000010000,timestamp=2016-09-07T13:04:15.477+0000)

So we just need to redefine a word, you mean?

No, we just realize it's just a dated term given to a certain play pattern which doesn't really need to mean anything aside from "non csing bot laner".

I mean we supposedly changed adc to marksman, to imply they don't have to carry, yet nobody cares and still calls them adcs anyway, because tradition, or whatever.

The support role can easily be a glory role and still be called support, same as an adc can be called an adc even if he doesn't do a very good job at carrying, or teemo can be called a marksman, or morde was called an adc when he went bot lane and built ap, or ad, or hybrid, or whatever.

Apparently current terminology doesn't do a very good job at defining roles, probably because nobody gives a shit about it, which makes sense, as it's mostly aimed at new players so they could get a basic understanding of the game, but we aren't new, are we?

Sire HippingtonSep 6, 20162 votes

... if the support **role **would appeal to...

Will riot ever be doing a support **class **update?

A class update is a bunch of small-medium reworks to champs of a certain class. However, support is a role, not a class, and reworking the champos will not change alot, as it's not the champs and their kits that aren't appealing. It would require system changes to do so, and even then it would always stay the least appealing position due to the nature of beeing a (selfless)supportive role opposed to a (selfish) carrie role

Bladerunner7777Sep 6, 20161 votes

The only thing that will make support appeal to more people is if supports weren't real supports (eg. Zyra, Brand, Vel'koz, Lux). People would rather kill stuff over actually helping others do that.

Support as a class fundamentally can't ever be popular because that's not the kind of world we live in.

Of course if you go and fk up everything and make support OP, people will play it, but that's stupid (like the Juggernaut update). As soon as support gets nerfed then it will go back to being unpopular (like the Juggernaut update)

TheHurricaneGamrSep 6, 20161 votes

I don't often play support, but when I do, I play Sona

CoffeeDaveSep 6, 20161 votes

The problem is that when the system is trying to fill spots, sometimes there is so few supports that you could be stuffed anywhere. As a Silver 2 player I've been placed in games where my teammates/opponents range anywhere from upper Bronze to lower Plat. I'm not exaggerating. It's no secret the support role is the least popular role but when you have to grab a silver player to fill a support spot in upper gold, there's an issue.

Sona x RubickSep 6, 20163 votes

EXACTLY what happened during season 3

where supports being useful without items were made to scale with items because it was "boring" to play by going full wards

lmfao, tell me how it was "boring" to 1v1 the enemy adc at lvl 6 with taric without any items. or 1v1 the enemy adc with sona at lvl 3.

Don't play supports if you don't like to support.

Irelia BotSep 6, 20168 votes

Do supports really play so alike that they need one in the same fashion as immobile mages, Juggernauts or Assassins?

Sona plays way different from Janna, soraka plays like soraka. Taric is is own kind of tanky support.

THe fact is that supports do generally have really different styles of play

ErockandrollSep 6, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FkIFayEX,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2016-09-06T03:35:51.159+0000)

Do supports really play so alike that they need one in the same fashion as immobile mages, Juggernauts or Assassins?

Sona plays way different from Janna, soraka plays like soraka. Taric is is own kind of tanky support.

THe fact is that supports do generally have really different styles of play

It's likely the itemization that needs work. Probably because support have that variety in play styles.

Riot did do one pass with the healing/shielding itemization (Athene's Mikale's Censor) But that only covers a third of the support table. It's a good way for Sustain supports to boost their sustain, without relying on AP Scaling. (which they usually can't afford) But what about tank supports? Can Tank supports get enough defenses without relying on High cost itemization? Really, only a hand full of them can. Taric and Alistar tecnically have heals, and could benefit from the same items. That plus most Tank support rely on their abilities, allowing CDR to work well. But what about engage supports? (Leona, thresh) they might not have the itemization to help them with their job.

Immortal spaxSep 5, 20163 votes

They only need to add a "exp boost" to sightstone when you are underlevelled to make them more popular

But no, you must be lvl 13 when your teammates are 18, because this is how it works.

Blue Moon WolfSep 6, 20163 votes

They seem to be doing mini support class updates every so often (the last one was before or after the mage update). I believe their reasoning is that Support as a whole is doing fine, but there are things here and there that need to be fixed and adjusted, while there are other classes that are just plain in a bad spot entirely at the moment. Assassins for example, Riot stated that they're currently in such a bad spot right now that they can't even make anymore assassins until the class is updated. Not to mention the fact that Support is a role and has different classes that play that role (controler, disruptor, vanguard, warden, occasional Juggernaut, etc.), so separate classes would likely be updated long before they would update the role as a whole. I believe Riot will continue to push out small updates for supports here and there and maybe do a pre-season update like they did with jungle and jungler items, but over all the Support role as a whole is not in a bad enough spot for Riot to dedicate a full class update for it.

If it's any consolation, Riot did say they want to improve the "Support ecosystem" for the pre-season update or possibly the mid-season update at the latest, which (If I understand what they mean by Support ecosystem) should help with the issues you mentioned, though keep in mind it is at heart the role that is made to assist your team, not carry it. There is only so much they can do before bot lane goes from "ADC/support" to "ADC/APC" if you catch my meaning.

Zach SandwhichSep 5, 20162 votes

Fill is never going to be anything but a majority of getting support. Riot can't do anything about that simply because people don't like supporting they like carrying. I do agree support class does need a rework.

Sire HippingtonSep 5, 20162 votes

"Class" is not the same as "Role" It'S not the champions that are unappealing(mostly), but the role, for me personally mostly beacuse of how little gold and xp you get and how limited you are in your itemisation as you need a wardsstone and usually an aegis item. In other maps/modes where you basically have normalized gold/xp across the board, i like playing 'support champs', as well as useing them in sololanes if viable.

Kingdom CornSep 6, 20162 votes

I do not really see a good reason for riot to rework supports they are in a good shape right now. (Except for sona who can 1 shot your adc.) Supports are really fun and pretty engaging for me trying to trade with the enemy adc and make them in hell. BUT the thing that needs to get reworked are these items item 3301 item 3504 item 3302 they just really seem like boring items that do not add much to the game.

Linna ExcelSep 6, 20162 votes

Sona should be moved to mid lane IMO.

LankPantsSep 6, 20162 votes

Except for sona who can 1 shot your adc

I like to play this game where every time I see someone complain about Sona I check their rank. It's almost always Bronze, sometimes Silver, almost never Gold or higher. Do you want to know why that is? Because Sona isn't a problem.

Kingdom CornSep 6, 20162 votes

Wow great job you used my rank against me. Check out PantsAreDragon top mid list he says sona is good in mid he is challenger btw not bronze. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqqnKiXOuKE check out 4 minutes 10 seconds :) seems like it isnt only bronze and silvers that are saying sona is strong.

TuplamelaSep 6, 20162 votes

Speaking of support choice, let's say I want engage support. Why pick Leona when you can pick Braum . Latter can also disengage. Or let's say you want to peel / protect your carry. Why pick Janna when you could pick Karma or Nami . Janna has actual ult, but on the other hand Karma brings actual early damage and a root with her W meanwhile Nami has two knock-ups, a heal AND really mean lvl 1/2. They all have slows in different forms.

If I want 'Screw you AP carry support' why would I pick Lux over Zyra unless I happen to enjoy lasers? Latter bring so much more damage and cc.

If I want a tank who can protect my carries, why would I bring Thresh when I can bring TahmKench and make my carry immune to most skill shots / roots / stuns. Admittedly, Braum can do this too.

Orianna is classified as Support but good luck going bot with her. :P

So I would say that support could use some diversity among similar picks, even if the situation isn't as bad as the adc situation was.

DarkRitualSep 6, 20161 votes

Lux Morgana Literal copy/paste of QWE with a mechanical change on each to make them a little different. Having one ability that's similar with a minor mechanical difference is fine. Three is not.

dapositivevikingSep 6, 20161 votes

you pick janna for the tenacity proof, non delayed multi person non cc, a unique shield that makes trading even more impactful, and the utility of roaming. you choose karma for her more reliable poking pattern and her self autonomy that comes with the kit. you choose nami if you're worried that your lane is gonna be tough against a healer like soraka. janna is in no ways the worse version of the other two

Bladerunner7777Sep 6, 20161 votes

Leona Hard engage, offers little more

Braum Balance of peel and engage. Emphasizes soaking up damage for team

Janna Hard disengage, offers little more

Karma Poke support. Has some utility as well

Nami Jack of all Trades support. Has some sustain, some poke, some disengage, some engage. All of these combined make her a pretty good lane bully but lacks in roaming and mid-lategame engage (Also doesn't have reliable point-and-click disengage so it's hard to stop Yi, Rengar, Kha, etc)

Lux Troll suppot that only really works in low elo

Zyra Poke support that also has a decent engage/disengage. Lacks mobility and is also squishy though

Thresh Playmaker

Blitzcrank Playmaker

Bard Playmaker

TahmKench Sole purpose in the support role is not letting your ADC die ever (that's why he's an LCS pick)

Lulu No longer the premium poke support but instead just a great "make ADC invincible" support

Soraka Designed for sadistic people. Makes laning phase a farm lane

Taric Similar to Braum because he is there to soak up damage for team. He lacks engage but makes up for it by having more defensive tools.

SpoofghoulSep 6, 20162 votes

support isnt boring you jsut can't carry from sup position

if your adc is a vegetable then prepare your anus no lube included

BastionKrossSep 5, 20161 votes

Why support champions didn't get the first class rework is still a question in my mind. Other classes needed a tuneup, but supports needed (and still continue to need) love so much more.

Why not deal with your biggest problem first instead of letting it fester for an entire season, especially since you knew for a fact you were changing to dynamic queue with it's "fill" option? Did Riot legitimately not think that support, with it's hugely unpopular reputation, wouldn't dominate the filling selection?

If the decision makers at Riot Games are that out of touch with the game as a whole, they don't deserve to be making decisions in the first place.

ReikkenSep 5, 20161 votes

Yeah, they got it 3 years ago.

CasterGilgameshSep 5, 20161 votes

that was a vision update not a support update edit ah i remember now the ap scaling utility it was a decent start but we supports hardly get enough ap to make use of the scalings

ReikkenSep 5, 20161 votes

utility scaling AND the support items. spellthief etc. That was huge.

CasterGilgameshSep 6, 20161 votes

i forgot about the utility scalings personally i find it was ok but honestly they shoulda pushed it more IMO

Athenes LuluSep 6, 20161 votes

Coming soon to League in 2018! :^^^^))))))

On all seriousness, anything supportive won't be labeled as "fun" to a lot of people. They want glory and spotlight, not some "dumb supportive sidekick crap".

Personally I don't care because we all know disastrous shit would be when there's 2 support mains on the same team, and that I find it fun on my own because I know how to drown enemies in their own tears.

Oh and one more thing, class updates exist is usually there to distinct champions from each other. As far as supports go, all of them are fairly distinct. Even Lulu and Karma are very different champions when played at full potential.

DemainaNyxSep 6, 20161 votes

Honestly they just need to add more items that are support focused. I like the changes to Athene's for example except for the fact that now most midlaners need to go Morello's for cooldown, which is kinda dumb for any midlaner who needs CDR. If they just added more items like that, I think it would be good.

A good tanky item that was tied to sightstone but offered health and resistances for example would be nice since playing a tanky support relies on you buying tank items or items with resistances but no health.

The most annoying this is you look at the enemy comp and go "2 ADCs, better get frozen heart", "lots of CC, mikael's should help", "I have a heal/sheild, Ardent Censor/Athene's is good", "they have self-healing champs vs our all AD comp, guess I'm buying Morello if I ever get the money". Yeah, I get to choose, but it's not often. Very rarely am I debating about which items to get since I can basically guess from champ select. The only item that is sorta debatable is Zeke's because your ADC might get 100% crit on their own, in which case you hope you have someone else to bind to or you sell for something better.

NyanzaSep 6, 20161 votes

I just want riot to give us better items. Hopefully in Season 7.

Linna ExcelSep 6, 20161 votes

Riot did one 2 or so seasons ago in the preseason. Before that, supports could only afford wards and maybe basic boots.

HateDaddySep 6, 20161 votes

Yeah, what do you think basically all of season 3 and season 4 was? Not to say that they can't give some more interesting items/ideas to supports but the class largely had two seasons of direct changes. If anything, supports were the first class to receive a rework overall

SylvantSep 6, 20161 votes

actually last season change the support items pool got more interesting. We got the different warding items options and a bunch of utility items. I remember some seasons ago, the support items were ranging from mage AP items to gold per seconds items, but now we really have that utility type of items and a wide choice to pick from

Troll for TrumpSep 6, 20161 votes

Supports are to diverse to fit into one Chad update. Many of them are completely different from each other. Some mages, such as Brand, Annie, Lux, and at one point souble doran Nid would be affected by these too, but they wouldn't actually be updated, since they aren't primarily supports.

A little PeepoSep 6, 20161 votes

I don't really feel that supports need that much of a rework but rather a few more items that aim for utility scaling. As of right now we have crucible and ardent so we're not that bad in terms of itemization. I do agree that utility supports should be able to deal some respectable amount of damage especially if their secondary role is mage.

I do understand that when utility scaling was added into game it gave support champs a reason to build ap but the damage nerfs champions like janna received sort of killed the damage potential these champs could deal if a heavy amount of ap was built on them. Even today those scaling are still relatively low and would be nice if there were items that give something like utility scaling increase on those stats. I feel that if tank supports are able to actually tank for a team and even baron then utility mage supports should be able to deal damage if they build damage, not just sona and karma.

My only complaint with supports is that when I'm playing someone like janna or even cow and someone jumps on me I can't really fight them back and all I can do is cc them and try to run away, sometimes I just feel like a sitting duck and need my adc with me 100% of the time to even be relevant throughout the game (I know that's what supports are supposed to do but if sona or karma can actually fight back with damage it would be nice if janna could do the same, not with a LOT of damage but at least a respectable form of damage if I built a damage oriented build) and I feel that's why we usually see mages being taken bot lane like annie, velkoz or zyra.

Pika FoxSep 6, 20161 votes

They already did, and support is already fun and engaging.

All riot really needs to do is a vision update so its not "The entire minimap is warded" or "There are 0 wards on the map forever" and nothing in between, and they already stated theyre going to do this.

Bladerunner7777Sep 6, 20161 votes

Support is fine to way it is

Normies stay tf away from my role

Edit: Copy/Paste from what I said in another part of this thread

Leona Hard engage, offers little more

Braum Balance of peel and engage. Emphasizes soaking up damage for team

Janna Hard disengage, offers little more

Karma Poke support. Has some utility as well

Lux Troll suppot that only really works in low elo

Zyra Poke support that also has a decent engage/disengage. Lacks mobility and is also squishy though

Thresh Playmaker

Blitzcrank Playmaker

Bard Playmaker

TahmKench Sole purpose in the support role is not letting your ADC die ever (that's why he's an LCS pick)

Lulu No longer the premium poke support but instead just a great "make ADC invincible" support

Soraka Designed for sadistic people. Makes laning phase a farm lane

Taric Similar to Braum because he is there to soak up damage for team. He lacks engage but makes up for it by having more defensive tools.

manbearswineSep 6, 20161 votes

You mean nerf janna and soraka?

Nah, that's too obvious.

BeldairSep 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Our expectation is that we'll do another class update at the end of the year in the preseason. Tentative thinking is we'll continue with them next year as well, though that's a long way off and could change of course. Assassins are a likely class at some point, though diving fighters and initiator tanks also have some strong arguments in their favour.

This was a post from meddler 6 months ago in one of my posts about class updates.

I believe some supports will be grouped in Intiator Tanks. Of course, we already know that the Assassin Update is coming.

DelphiniumSep 6, 20161 votes

High diamond support main here. Support role is totally fine right now, but they can do a support item update since there isn't much item can be pick up other than those same 2 or 3 items every game.

inplaneSep 6, 20161 votes

The Support rework has already happened with all the new Support items and Utility scaling that was added a few years back. Now that they're implementing that into some newer Support champs, then it'll be fine. Support is a very unique role in itself. Always changing things to fit the majority of opinions isn't always a good thing, especially when it affects a separate playerbase as a whole.