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In my opinion, Nasus is the worst Juggernaut design in the game.

Bârd··8 votes·4,018 views

I know, there's a lot of competition for the title, but I think Nasus edges out all the others.

Volibear has been a joke for years. Garen is incredibly basic, plus the Villain mechanic feels kinda bullshit to fight. DrMundo is either godly or useless depending on if anybody spent 800g to counter him. Chogath is the definition of cheese. Mordekaiser is more of a loose collection of bugs than a juggernaut at this point.

Nasus doesn't really stand apart from the crowd in terms of the sheer number of flaws.

...where Nasus falls short is in redeeming factors.

The others all have some level of skill expression in their kit.

Volibear can knock people out of dashes with his E and peel with his flip. Garen takes some precision to get the most out of his Q slow cleanse, W max mitigation, and E isolation. DrMundo can be elevated to a higher level if you use his tenacity/movespeed to become untouchable against skillshots. Chogath takes skill to land Q and has decisions to make around using his ult to fight, secure objectives, or just to stack. Mordekaiser has a really versatile buildpath, so it can be hard to know what the best one is for a given situation.

Not Nasus.

Nasus has no skill expression. The only real mechanic he has is resetting his attack timer... him and every other Triforce user. The difference between a good Nasus and a Bad Nasus is that a good Nasus can both be in fights when he needs to AND farm, while a bad Nasus can only manage one of those. That goes for pretty much any farm-reliant champion, it's just that Nasus relies more on being able to use it.

The others have a some unique mechanics they can contribute to a lineup.

Volibear has his aforementioned displacement. Garen can shred through the entire enemy team one after another so long as he kills the Villain. DrMundo has the least out of anybody here, but he basically just has a permaslow and is difficult to bring down. Chogath has tons of AOE CC, plus he can secure baron/drag. Mordekaiser can turn a fed carry against their team even if Morde is weak.

Not Nasus.

Nasus has a slightly better Triforce proc than other Triforce users, plus a single target slow and a little bit of armor pen.

Wow what a goddamn identity.

I like playing a round of Nasus as much as the next guy, but face it his "identity" is more or less "I'm a walking item 3078 who already has item 3144 and item 3071."

25 Comments

Moody P6 votes

a little bit of armor pen.

he has more than Garen with less effort. Wither is one of the strongest CC spells in the game and is absolutely ruinous to AS-based enemies. Nasus's potency as a disabler is being massively undersold here because he can fire-n-forget unlike basically any other juggernaut. Nasus is also one of the highest damage juggernauts in terms of single target DPS potentially, but more importantly he's also one of the few who's still valuable to his team when put behind.

The real "problem" with Nasus is that he has never actually catered to his infinite stack late game god fantasy any time he's relevant in high elo. Every appearance Nasus has made in high MMR or competitive has involved him forgoing stacks entirely and using an E-max build for wave control and lane dominance. His kit is basically entirely revolving around his Q, but he doesn't even put emphasis on the Q. Before that, back in season 3 he was a Wither bot and, again, barely emphasized stacking Qs.

Volibear was a strong champion in S6 and in early S8; it's not his fault that Riot trashed on his items and then nerfed him directly both times he was good. Garen's flaw isn't being basic. Mundo's viability is way more reliant on how good defensive runes and items are than whether or not you bought Grievous. Cho'Gath isn't a juggernaut and Mordekaiser's bugs are massively overstated. You're selling all of these champions short.

Burns Master1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FaAJd0od,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-07T21:44:22.403+0000)

Volibear was a strong champion in S6 and in early S8; it's not his fault that Riot trashed on his items and then nerfed him directly both times he was good

Well said, I picked up Voli during the later parts of season 6, and he was the first champ I got to mastery 7. I was kinda pissed that Riot nerfed him twice. Even though the knockback on his roar was helpful, he still feels kind of like a shell since then. Haven't had any luck with him unless I had a really early lead top lane- but jungle he's rare but decent.

Daddy Ants6 votes

{quoted}

Nasus has a slightly better Triforce proc than other Triforce users, plus a single target slow and a little bit of armor pen.

ARMOR REDUCTION: 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 / 35% of target's armor

That's not "little"

Also that's armor reduction, not penetration.

Meaning his entire team benefits from it.

Sasogwa3 votes

Tch this kind of post sickens me. Just because you don't like a simple champion kit you have to trashtalk it because it doesn't fit your ideals "muh mechonics" point of view. Nasus is a clearly unique juggernaught due to his weak laning phase and all-in nature. All about Nasus is learning how to manage the waves and when you can trade, when you can't. He's a great champion to learn toplane and how to play from behind. He's also somewhat unique as he's the OG infinite scaler.

Done254 votes

{quoted}

Tch this kind of post sickens me. Just because you don't like a simple champion kit you have to trashtalk it because it doesn't fit your ideals "muh mechonics" point of view. Nasus is a clearly unique juggernaught due to his weak laning phase and all-in nature. All about Nasus is learning how to manage the waves and when you can trade, when you can't. He's a great champion to learn toplane and how to play from behind. He's also somewhat unique as he's the OG infinite scaler.

Oh please. Nasus is an awful, toxic, relic from a kit standpoint. The entire thrust of his kit revolves around ignoring his opponent as much as possible early on and just focusing on farming for 20 min. If he manages to do so he's basically won the game as soon as he finishes his Triforce.

Veigar's kit is similar, but he's actually rewarded for aggression by getting AP for landing Q on enemy champions. Not to mention the fact that his stacks give AP means his other skills scale as well instead of just turning him into a 0.8 second Q spam machine like Nasus.

Sasogwa2 votes

{quoted}

Oh please. Nasus is an awful, toxic, relic from a kit standpoint. The entire thrust of his kit revolves around ignoring his opponent as much as possible early on and just focusing on farming for 20 min. If he manages to do so he's basically won the game as soon as he finishes his Triforce.

Veigar's kit is similar, but he's actually rewarded for aggression by getting AP for landing Q on enemy champions. Not to mention the fact that his stacks give AP means his other skills scale as well instead of just turning him into a 0.8 second Q spam machine like Nasus.

Yeah sure Nasus doesn't fit the "cancer emodark urfmode" shit we have today. You have to actually think about the game, and macro strategy and not mechanics.

If you think Nasus autowins if he's freefarmed then you're probably iron. Nasus has a midgame powerspike mostly and falls off in lategame due to damage scaling in comparison to tankiness and the fact he gets kited...

Oh why do I even bother argumenting? R%%%%%s here just like to complain about what they get shitted on by.

Yes yes son Nasus is toxic and overpowered and you are very good at this game.

God forbid he's one of the rare kits that's about surviving and not a hypercarry lanebully midgame powerspiker like Jax Yasuo Riven and shit

Ralanr5 votes

While you have a point, macro play isn’t exclusively something simple champions have dominion over. Even mechanically intensive champions need to think about macro. Simple champions just have an easier time thinking about it.

Bârd3 votes

A champion being simple means they just have a low skill floor. There's nothing wrong with that.

Nasus is simple. That's fine.

Nasus is also generic and bland. He has no skill expression, identity, or identity outside of "muh stacks".

All those things you just described Nasus as being "all about"? Managing waves? When to trade? That's not Nasus. That's just top lane.

Nasus presses Q. No matter how much you WANT him to be more than that, that's all he is. A walking Sheen.

Sasogwa3 votes

{quoted}

A champion being simple means they just have a low skill floor. There's nothing wrong with that.

Nasus is simple. That's fine.

Nasus is also generic and bland. He has no skill expression, identity, or identity outside of "muh stacks".

All those things you just described Nasus as being "all about"? Managing waves? When to trade? That's not Nasus. That's just top lane.

Nasus presses Q. No matter how much you WANT him to be more than that, that's all he is. A walking Sheen.

And why is it bad design? You have very very clear strengths and weaknesses, powerspikes, you're by all means predictable so legitimately fair; the counterplay and counterpicking is obvious. Yes he can be obnoxious if you play bad against him (aka don't deny him and try to face him in the splitpush solo as a non-duellist champ) but I don't see how that's bad. Every champion punishes you for reacting wrong to him.

Honestly I don't see how that's bad design just because he lacks mechanics. I don't agree.

Bârd2 votes

I'm not saying Nasus is overpowered. He's not, he's pretty much garbage.

Before Riot started buffing the shit out of Nasus, he was an outdated stat stick that was terrible if the enemies knew what they were doing. Now, after Riot has:

  • Halved his Q CD during ult.
  • Granted a ton of resists during ult.
  • Gave him 4x stacks on large unit kills.

...he's still an outdated stat stick that's terrible if the enemies know what they're doing.

Nasus brings nothing unique to the table. There is no reason to pick him over any other bruiser. There is nothing on Nasus that you need to play him to master.

Once you've learned the basics of Nasus, you don't improve your Nasus play by "getting better at Nasus". You improve your Nasus play by getting better at top in general; wave management, last hitting, damage sense, map awareness.

I'm not saying Nasus needs to have the skill ceiling of a Riven, Fiora, or Yasuo. He's not that kind of champion.

I'm saying Nasus needs to have the skill ceiling of Garen, Malphite, or Trundle.

This is not a high bar, and the current Nasus fails to meet it.

A i Bot 01 votes

That's not true, Most people who play nasus are just used to splitting and staying top lane. If you do that then yeah of course. Nasus is like that cart you push in nexus blitz. Good scenario for nasus is to lane swap bot lane to pressure bot side objectives and to bring 1-2 people to deal with this stat stick.

Main goal for nasus or any top laner trying to climb and guide his/her team will always want baron control as the first attempt to close the game out

Bârd2 votes

Yeah you see, this is what I mean.

You can swap Nasus in that for any split push heavy top laner and they do the job described as well or better than Nasus, while having a real purpose outside of that.

  • Singed
  • Trundle
  • Tryndamere
  • Jax
  • Renekton
  • Illaoi
  • Yorick
  • Shen
  • Darius
  • Garen
  • Irelia
  • AD fucking Soraka
A i Bot 01 votes

What I'm saying is that there are plenty of ways to play Nasus. We usually see the people play the safe farm up split pushing nasus. but having Nasus bot lane provides teamfighting much earlier then if he were top lane...So I'm not saying those other champions can't do a great job, but Nasus's kit provides great support in the team comps that involve enemy 's diving the back line.

But I mean who wants to main Nasus, when he seems so slow compared to the others. Honestly the more I talk about him the more I want to play him again

Sasogwa1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah you see, this is what I mean.

You can swap Nasus in that for any split push heavy top laner and they do the job described as well or better than Nasus, while having a real purpose outside of that.

  • Singed
  • Trundle
  • Tryndamere
  • Jax
  • Renekton
  • Illaoi
  • Yorick
  • Shen
  • Darius
  • Garen
  • Irelia
  • AD fucking Soraka

You're just spitting out nonsense Nasus does have a purpose. He's a good splitpusher but also brings in a frontline tanky presence, the wither to deny a small part of an adc dps and single out targets for easier catch. He also brings in a % armor shred AOE spell, just like black cleaver would, benefiting all his physical damage allies.

Singed

isn't as good a splitpusher as Nasus by far. He's more of a proxy annoying guy that can single out people with fling in teamfights with the movespeed build (shurelia + righteous)

Trundle

Has less duelling potential except against hardtanks and isn't as good as chasing people down 1v1 to kill them, making him a way worse splitpusher

Tryndamere

Gets countered by Nasus, isn't tanky so Nasus has the advantage in bringing a frontline. Weaker midgame, arguably stronger lategame (debateable, depending on the opposing team - gets beaten 1v1 by Nasus obviously but we're talking influence on the game, when they're not facing each other). Has similar utility (AOE AD debuff + potential slow VS AOE armor shred + single target slow & as slow)

Jax

Arguably the one champion that would contest the most Nasus at "doing what Nasus does but better". The only thing Nasus has over him is sustain, in bad lanes (some ranged matchups) where you can't all in, Nasus can hold his own better by sustaining through the poke.

Renekton

Scales way worse. Early game bully, but garbage splitpusher. Actually more kiteable than Nasus.

Illaoi

Insanely kiteable, can't choose her fights, the only thing she can kinda do in split is push until the opponent has to fight her, but even then she's more about waiting for people to engage on her. Has insane damage though and stronger laning phase.

Yorick

Worse duellist. Great splitpusher/tower taker though. Similar utility. Stronger early laning.

Shen

Way worse duellist. Better teamfighter/ team champion (higher utility). Less sustain. Stronger early laning (i'm gonna have to say that everytime lul)

Darius

Oh my god this guy is kiteable. Much stronger early laning, scales roughly the same (farmed Nasus will beat him in duels, but usually at non garbage elo it's hard to get farmed as Nasus). Really bad splitpusher though compared to Nasus. It's just.. not what Darius does.

Garen

Honestly less utility than Nasus. I'd say tankier, thanks to his W. Worse duellist, worse splitpusher.

Irelia

Worse duellist, better teamfighter. Better montage champion.

I mean, I don't know. Nasus brings something to the table that's different from other picks. He's not the same pick, doesn't fulfill the same theme, fantasy, visual design, doesn't appeal to the same players and doesn't do the same thing. What he is, is a weak early game champion, that scales to a really powerful midgame laner if not denied, decent if he managed to farm enough. He is one of the best duellist/ 1v1 fight forcers in the game due to his slow, Q and R and an average/ok teamfighter. Most of his weakness right now is due to how bad tankiness is, he could actually warrant nerfs if conqueror's was removed, IE reverted and damage lowered accross the board. His main problem would be that in high elo, he's more dependent upon his opponent skill than his own to win lane, just because of how weak his early is, his only skill expression earlygame is pure toplane stuff (wave management, minion aggro, warding, back timings, etc.) Which I don't find that problematic, because pure game knowledge definitely wins elo. You can go up to high diamond with garbage mechanics but great game knowledge, while with just mechanics and garbage game understanding, you're going nowhere. And you can't really add "skill expression" to his early laning without making him have a chance to trade back, which would be actually bad. Nasus has to be weak early, to fulfill his fantasy and limit his power.

There's not just one way to play Nasus top as well you can go grasp, or conq, or unsealed spellbook, or aery 3E into max Q, or max E. You can go classic bruiser trinity or iceborn, you can opt for the zz'rot build, go for an AP build.. You don't main Nasus. You probably haven't ever played him more than 3 times in your life and probably that was aram. Don't talk shit about his utility and how he's just a worse version of other champions... cause he isn't. His gameplay is unique, and if that feels braindead to you, then so be it. But don't be a fucking prick and demand a rework or denounce his "bad design" cause people who enjoy Nasus do not feel like he is badly designed at all. He's simple, can be very efficient in correct scenarios ; and I'd have that kit a billion times over the overloaded crap released/reworked nowadays (and I find Nasus infinitely healthier than the likes of Akali, Zoe, reworked Irelia etc. At least he doesn't do everything at once and does have weaknesses)

Anyway I hope I could somewhat convince you that trashing a champion randomly because you don't like his kit doesn't work, and that Nasus definitely IS unique and different from other picks, and if not, then fuck me, right?

Bârd2 votes

I didn't say all of those champions had the same strengths and weaknesses as Nasus.

I said that all those champions fit the description "Most people who play X are just used to splitting and staying top lane. If you do that then yeah of course. X is like that cart you push in nexus blitz. Good scenario for X is to lane swap bot lane to pressure bot side objectives and to bring 1-2 people to deal with this stat stick."

I don't dislike playing Nasus. He's fun. That doesn't make him a good design.

Nasus is more or less Trundle with less playmaking potential.

You say Nasus provides something unique? What? What unique thing does he provide?

He's an OK duelist. He's an OK teamfighter in the mid game, until late game when he just gets crushed because he can't get on top of anybody who cares if he Q's them. His only skill expression early on is "Pure Toplane Stuff", but that's also what happens for the rest of the damn game. You run people down with stats, slows, and AA resets. Sure you can punish hard once you're there but you rely on enemy mistakes to make that happen in the first place. Sure Nasus can run different builds. He's hardly alone in that, and none of those builds change what he does; buy a sheen item, build tank, and press Q.

You keep saying he's unique and then defend that claim by rattling off the things Nasus can do that, surprise, other Juggernauts can also do.

And, by the way, fuck off with that Ad Hominem shit. Nas was my third most played in Season 4 and he's the same champion now as he was then. I like playing him, but that doesn't mean I force myself to look at him through rose tinted glasses.

xDogMeatx1 votes

so hes a walking item 4403? in other words

xDogMeatx1 votes

nasus is more of a lane controller similar how tryd is. due to their tower killing power/push potential. it forces a 3v5 in teamfights on the enemy side.

Ignika D2 votes

play him above dia 4 on q max them come back here ,he is as good as his lane opponent skill theres absolutely nothing you can do vs anyone till lvl 6 unless they misplay and eat minion agro you also get the lvl advantage every single time since you can get everysingle minion for free also lets not forget if he is using the q on the minions that means he is not trading you meaning you have a change to poke him down

A i Bot 02 votes

Everything revolves around playstyle and choices. Honestly Nasus is a perfect lane swapper after jungler and bot lane take tower. Then you just swap lane press tower and control baron...Boom bam pretty easy strat for winning

Saevum1 votes

This one is more cheesy Quinn.

She abuses range, she abuses lethality items, she has a 1.5 sec vision denial (used to be 2), she can roam easier, if you happen to have a gap closer she can counter it with her E, Free W vision no facechecks baby, she becomes a 1 shot squishies combo late game so she can deny you to have a botlane adc. She can be played in 3 lanes.

Balance baby. Prove me wrong.

Bârd1 votes

Quinn is not a Juggernaut.

Saevum1 votes

Of course she's not.

Cho'gath is not a cheese champion. That's why i brought you one that happens to be played also top lane Quinn

So you can actually see the definition of CHEESE.

Bârd2 votes

I mean... dying at full HP to a Cho's Flash+R is always going to feel like you got cheesed.

Quinn's pretty annoying though, yeah.

Vesarixx1 votes

Shaco You want to talk cheese top laners?

haaaaaaalp1 votes

Nothing wrong with a juggernaut built off of numbers. Mobas are built on mixing micro and macro based champions together. That means we need macro heavy champions like nasus. Trying to make every champion micro heavy creates problems like the current irelia or akali who are honestly far unhealtheir for the game than nasus ever was.

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