Why doesn't riot fix Guinsoo's Rageblade? It's not like they would need to change much.

GuileRaven··9 votes·2,861 views

Currently Guinsoo's Rageblade seems to be in complete limbo. It's a hybrid item, yet no hybrid champions actually seem to bother building it. While hextech gunblade is meant for AP champions who like a little AD on the side, Guinsoo is clearly for AD auto attackers who like a little AP to boost their abilities. The problem is, champions that fit this description almost never buy it. It's not that the item is bad, in fact the stats that it gives are great; especially for the price.

The problem however, is that it's not slot efficient. It fails to fulfill any specific purpose, and thus all the champions that like the stats need to buy other things. Hextech Gunblade helps with sustain and kiting, triforce is a defensive item that helps you poke, kite, and stick to target. Gunblade is not a major source of AD or crit, and thus fails to be a hardcore damage item. At the same time, it's rather average (or even below average) 10% lifesteal and spellvamp don't activate until you are below 50% health; and thus it fails to serve as a proper sustain item. This right here is the problem. Why add such an unnecessary handicap to the item?

Instead of having the lifesteal and spellvamp activate at 50%, they should just give the 10% lifesteal and spellvamp upfront; and at 50% health it should activate a temporary bloodthirster style shield. The mechanics and stats of the item would essentially be exactly the same, but it would become a much more viable item overall. This would definitely be something I would get in place of bloodthirster on ADC Ezreal and Corki.

27 Comments

Marcq348 votes

Because it would allow different build paths for some adcs and you know riot hates that. Think about how op your item would be on champs like tristana and kogmaw who could use a bit of ap while still getting ad and lifesteal. New builds for adcs is unacceptable and you know this.

LilxPaprika3 votes

{quoted}

Think about how op your item would be on champs like tristana and kogmaw you forgot kogmaw.

i also dont think itd be that great on them seeing as how they'll likely not have any magic pen. and as a tank id rather equip both mr and armor then to have armor get shredded by armor pen.

there's also an easy fix for this make its passive better for melee champs like phage/hydra/mallet.

i made a suggestion for rageblade here, feel free to upvote: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/AM2Auxzb-rageblade-passive-to-always-trigger-when-below-50-health-however-if-above-50-theres-a-shorter-du

GuileRaven1 votes

{quoted}

Because it would allow different build paths for some adcs and you know riot hates that. Think about how op your item would be on champs like tristana and kogmaw who could use a bit of ap while still getting ad and lifesteal. New builds for adcs is unacceptable and you know this.

"Because it would allow different build paths for some adcs and you know riot hates that."

Here I thought riot encouraged creativity! xD

I know what you mean though. Just a few weeks ago I was building triforce ghostblade and infinity edge on ezreal. Now they have nerfed infinity edge's crit chance so that that together; they no longer reach 50%. Pissed me off.

Rebonack4 votes

Completely axe its current passive and give it 30% hybrid pen that shares a named passive with Whisper and Void.

Suddenly there's an actual reason to buy it.

'Buhbuhbuh how do I build against hybrid pen?'

Buy HP and harass Riot until they add a +25% bonus HP item to the game. You already need an absurd amount of HP for every 100 resist against someone with 35% penetration.

GuileRaven2 votes

{quoted}

Completely axe its current passive and give it 30% hybrid pen that shares a named passive with Whisper and Void.

Suddenly there's an actual reason to buy it.

'Buhbuhbuh how do I build against hybrid pen?'

Buy HP and harass Riot until they add a +25% bonus HP item to the game. You already need an absurd amount of HP for every 100 resist against someone with 35% penetration.

"Completely axe its current passive and give it 30% hybrid pen that shares a named passive with Whisper and Void."

Then there would be no reason to buy any void staff OR last whisper as it would have both stats combined.

Rebonack2 votes

{quoted}

"Completely axe its current passive and give it 30% hybrid pen that shares a named passive with Whisper and Void."

Then there would be no reason to buy any void staff OR last whisper as it would have both stats combined.

  1. Champions that deal all one damage type wouldn't give two shits about Rageblade.
  2. Champions with only one type of relevant scaling wouldn't give two shits about Rageblade.
  3. 35% penetration is significantly more powerful than 30% penetration for the same reason that 100% penetration is VASTLY more powerful than 50% penetration, not just twice as strong.
GuileRaven1 votes

{quoted}

  1. Champions that deal all one damage type wouldn't give two shits about Rageblade.
  2. Champions with only one type of relevant scaling wouldn't give two shits about Rageblade.
  3. 35% penetration is significantly more powerful than 30% penetration for the same reason that 100% penetration is VASTLY more powerful than 50% penetration, not just twice as strong.

"Champions that deal all one damage type wouldn't give two shits about Rageblade"

AD champions like the attack speed boost, and AP champions definitely wouldn't mind having a non-useless auto attack.

MPendragon3 votes

item 3124 still better than item 3087

Why is it uncommonly acquired, instead of the alternative? ADC's generally aren't your constant auto attackers of team fights, so they want that free burst damage so they can retreat and "play safe".

In all reality, if they played aggressive like they're intended to, they could actually win games as an ADC.

GuileRaven1 votes

{quoted}

item 3124 still better than item 3087

Why is it uncommonly acquired, instead of the alternative? ADC's generally aren't your constant auto attackers of team fights, so they want that free burst damage so they can retreat and "play safe".

In all reality, if they played aggressive like they're intended to, they could actually win games as an ADC.

You obviously don't play ADC very often. These two weapons are very different. Individually of course Guinsoo is going to out damage static shiv. However, throw in an infinity edge and static shiv becomes massively more powerful. Why? It's because unlike Guinsoo, static shiv gives crit chance. ADCs rely on crit to deal their sustained damage. So you are completely wrong.

MPendragon2 votes

{quoted}

You obviously don't play ADC very often. These two weapons are very different. Individually of course Guinsoo is going to out damage static shiv. However, throw in an infinity edge and static shiv becomes massively more powerful. Why? It's because unlike Guinsoo, static shiv gives crit chance. ADCs rely on crit to deal their sustained damage. So you are completely wrong.

If your team is likely to get Baron buff with no challenge, Guinsoo is a great pick up on ADC's that scale off of AP. Absolutely great.

soliznoel3 votes

i'll never forget how this item saved my life, while i was playing Jax . I went a weird full ap/hybrid build with him, and i was cornered, was in basically a 1 v4 because my 2 team mates left me. I jump in figuring i was dead mash buttons and the passive kicks in, allowing me to live long enough to get a quad. #respect

edit: holy shit, reading through i realized how bad my grammar was lol

ravenswolfy2 votes

Only really works on Jax or Kayle if that... feels more of a gimmick/niche item.

Dryditch2 votes

XinZhao

AP Xin LOOOOOVES rageblade. It grants AS and lifesteal so he starts healing back up faster than a Sion with Cannibalism.

LilxPaprika2 votes

I think now would be a good time for rageblade to be looked at. Now that gunblade is being changed in patch 5.2, being geared more towards ap assasins like akali and katarina. particularly since dfg is getting removed. gunblade's active scales with ap so its mostly designed with voidstaff/deathcap in mind. and while rageblade doesnt have much ad on it. at least it has the attack speed to complement ad kits. so now that ad champions who benefit from some ap are even less inclined to get gunblade, having rageblade be a more reliable alternative would help.

junglerboy162 votes

It is epic right now on anyone who scales off of AP and AS, like Jax Kayle Poppy Skarner Tryndamere TwistedFate XinZhao . Giving it raw lifesteal+spellvamp would break it and ruin its identity as a super powerful item that take a few seconds to ramp up. It is already really strong on hybrid carries like Varus KogMaw and Ezreal, and doesn't need a random shield (the current rage passive is FAR stronger than a wimpy shield). The only reason it isn't the single most broken item in the game is that the meta favors burst fights that last less than 3 seconds, while this item is tuned for champs who do best after ramping up over a couple seconds.

LilxPaprika1 votes

{quoted}

It is epic right now on anyone who scales off of AP and AS, like Jax Kayle Poppy Skarner Tryndamere TwistedFate XinZhao The only reason it isn't the single most broken item in the game is that the meta favors burst fights that last less than 3 seconds, while this item is tuned for champs who do best after ramping up over a couple seconds.

check out my suggestion. im sorta hijacking this thread because its getting more views and hopefully will get riot's attention. i think the main problem is that its difficult to manage its passive. say a fight broke out and it ends you go to recall but see that one of your teammate thinks he can make a play. your low on health now and the rageblade passive is on cooldown. theres a lot of scenarios id go back in to fight were it not for the fact that my sustain is down. i just dont like having to plan so much around its passive being up or not. it ruins the flow of the game. also the gold efficientcy of lifesteal is significantly reduced when below 50% health. imo first off you need tankyness so that you dont get two shotted when at half health... so ull do less damage and thereby heal less. people are like vultures and love to focus down low health champions. there are ways to make it worth while though with say a kayle ult etc. but too situational imo champion, last few seconds. and people to just let you freely hit them either. other champion would be poppy.

anyways my solution would be to have its passive always up when below 50% health allowing you to keep your focus on the game instead.

agbudar1 votes

i used it one evelyn didn't feel bad at all tbh

MPendragon1 votes

MissFortune ?

Drukyul1 votes

There are so many different ways to fix this item, but Riot hasn't even tried one. Not even in pre-season. I don't get it.

Shaded Striker1 votes

I thought it would be great to use this on Diana

Are1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shaded Striker,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FOzPZcFz,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-01-27T01:59:44.154+0000)

I thought it would be great to use this on Diana

Diana does AoE damage. SV is not particularly good on her.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

The main problem is that it's a ball of stats that fulfills no purpose, as you said, other than for AD champions who want some AP.

It used to be hyper-efficient before the price went up. 35 AD and 45 AP, plus it cost 2235; now it's 30 AD, 40 AP and 2600 gold cost. Still, it breaks 100% efficiency at half stacks, capped stacks is 139% efficient, and when the 50% HP passive activates, it hits 129.8-193.5% efficiency, depending on stacks.

But I believe that the problem lies in the low AD. Let's compare it to BotRK for a second, which is about 83% efficient. The reason BotRK is widely used, despite the low AD, is because the on-hit effect and active make up for the low AD. Guinsoo's Rageblade doesn't have anything directly effective like that for attacking champions; your best hope is to have AP ratios and a Nashor's Tooth.

I love Rageblade for Varus, but that's because I play a mostly AP semi-hybrid Varus.

Most AD champions don't care for buying AP directly; they'll get some indirectly because they want something like Sheen/Trinity/Iceborn, or from Baron buff, but they never directly buy AP items unless they're doing an AP build. Rageblade has much more AP and AS than AD, making it stronger for the champs who will buy Nashor's than for AD champs who want AP.

GuileRaven1 votes

{quoted}

The main problem is that it's a ball of stats that fulfills no purpose, as you said, other than for AD champions who want some AP.

It used to be hyper-efficient before the price went up. 35 AD and 45 AP, plus it cost 2235; now it's 30 AD, 40 AP and 2600 gold cost. Still, it breaks 100% efficiency at half stacks, capped stacks is 139% efficient, and when the 50% HP passive activates, it hits 129.8-193.5% efficiency, depending on stacks.

But I believe that the problem lies in the low AD. Let's compare it to BotRK for a second, which is about 83% efficient. The reason BotRK is widely used, despite the low AD, is because the on-hit effect and active make up for the low AD. Guinsoo's Rageblade doesn't have anything directly effective like that for attacking champions; your best hope is to have AP ratios and a Nashor's Tooth.

I love Rageblade for Varus, but that's because I play a mostly AP semi-hybrid Varus.

Most AD champions don't care for buying AP directly; they'll get some indirectly because they want something like Sheen/Trinity/Iceborn, or from Baron buff, but they never directly buy AP items unless they're doing an AP build. Rageblade has much more AP and AS than AD, making it stronger for the champs who will buy Nashor's than for AD champs who want AP.

Adding a bit more damage would be nice, but again it has neither crit or true sustain. It's not the solution. If they added the sustain using the methods I mentioned; I think it would be viable again even without an AD buff. If I am buying this item on an ADC, then chances are I am getting triforce as my defensive item as opposed to guardian angel. Together I would only be sacrificing 30 AD in exchange for tons of attack speed and extra AP for my abilities (granted my magic damage will still fall off once they build some MR, but that's probably going to take a while).

IF they were to buff the AD damage, then they should change the pickaxe to a BF sword and give it all together 50 AD at the most.

The Soulforged1 votes

poppy now instabuys :D

BlueBuffandChill1 votes

Woid Knife confirmed B)

Kingsgrave1 votes

I would like Rageblade to be a melee only AD fighter item. Imagine it building out of Phage and giving MS and AS for being in combat? Would be rad.

doenertier1 votes

well, u got what u wanted, happy now?

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