Azir Buffs 5.2

f00G3MxfPP·Jan 25, 2015·1 votes·14,124 views

For the next patch, though most of the balance changes seem to be terrible, their targets are justified. Nerf op assassins (some not enough, some just plain ineffective at reducing burst i.e. zed). Give compensation to dfg users (more like kill them more). Rework some champions (more like remove the champion/their playstyle from the game). But I did not see this coming. Isn't his pick/ban/winrate ridiculously high right now? And it's a buff... riot almost never gives buffs.

Source: http://www.newsoflegends.com/index.php/pbe-round-up-patch-5-2-32966/

47 Comments

RiotMeddlerJan 25, 201513 votes

This is an indicator change only, the spell's actual range isn't increasing.

We're considering Azir nerfs for 5.3, he's stronger in some situations than he should be. Range is one of the possible nerf points (it was while looking at his ranges we realized the indicator was off).

f00G3MxfPPJan 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

This is an indicator change only, the spell's actual range isn't increasing.

We're considering Azir nerfs for 5.3, he's stronger in some situations than he should be. Range is one of the possible nerf points (it was while looking at his ranges we realized the indicator was off).

Thanks for the clarification. I might have come off a bit harsh in my original post. Some of the changes are great. Fizz for example is my favorite. You guys kept his identity at avoiding skills with his E (also his waveclear), but reduced the frustrating parts of his early kill potential/zoning power, missing his shark (which is quite slow) and then killing you anyways (I outplayed him! He killed me!), and his dot killing you from 1/3 hp (often wasting a potion/flash--insult on top of injury). Catching a champion with such a slippery skill actually made me feel good. Nerfing it would be like nerfing yasuo's windwall or master yi's alpha invulnerability, greatly reducing the viability of a squishy melee damage dealer. Which btw, might be a huge problem with the new katarina. Katarina relied on not dying by killing everyone before they can react. While that was not the healthiest of game design, assuming that the change is effective at stopping the no counterplay pentakills, the new katarina then has no way of preventing instant death when she jumps in at melee range. 30% damage reduction on shunpo is nothing. Master Yi has 70% damage reduction (and heal) on his meditate (plus the alpha strike to dodge skills). The cooldown difference is not that important for a melee carry. The difference between 30% and 70% is a lot of difference in effective hp. I think with the way she is currently, she is more likely to be built a bruiser than pure damage. As a bruiser she would be outclassed, and without cc, would be ineffective at locking down carries.

LilxPaprikaJan 25, 20152 votes

range is the problem that needs to be addressed. either that or make turrets have longer range against ranged targets. farming under turret vs azir or just getting sieged at turret vs him is extremly annoying.

i made a post suggesting turrets get larger range vs ranged characters as well. (please check out my recent suggestions). how would you recommend we get our suggestions noticed by riot? im thinking of making a drawing. to better illustrate my poiny and grab people attention.

B3ERJan 25, 20154 votes

Does Azir really need the slow on his Q, along with all the CC he has access to? I feel like this is the part of his kit that has no counterplay. His Q hitbox is massive and when it hits, you get 2-3 AA's on you for sure. He can do this from out of turret range.

RaptameiJan 25, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Does Azir really need the slow on his Q, along with all the CC he has access to? I feel like this is the part of his kit that has no counterplay. His Q hitbox is massive and when it hits, you get 2-3 AA's on you for sure. He can do this from out of turret range.

He's a 2014 champion, of course he needs a slow (and a knockup).

Serenity NowJan 25, 20151 votes

True. Riot loves overloaded kits.

That's been a trend for a very long time, and comes from having a fairly limited number of mechanics from which to create unique combinations. In the end, every champ seemingly has a bit of everything.

TotalJerkJan 25, 20151 votes

It was likely compensation for his bugs and inconsistencies.

DrukyulJan 25, 20153 votes

{quoted}

We're considering Azir nerfs for 5.3, he's stronger in some situations than he should be. Range is one of the possible nerf points (it was while looking at his ranges we realized the indicator was off).

Please nerf his burst, not his range. He was intended to be a sustained-damage mage, was he not? He doesn't really seem to play like that too much at the moment - just bursts people down like any other non-support mage. He needs all the range he can get to keep that sustained damage.

RiotMeddlerJan 26, 20153 votes

Yeah, burst's one of the other things we've been looking at, particularly now that people have go pretty good at chaining his spells/attacks together quickly.

SinspunchJan 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, burst's one of the other things we've been looking at, particularly now that people have go pretty good at chaining his spells/attacks together quickly.

Because that's what happens when you play a champion? You get good with them? lol real

Nausicäa Jan 26, 20152 votes

Its a really fine line. Ultimately hes still a squishy champion and if he cannot kill another champion quickly enough he will be worthless. You should just undo the base damage buffs you gave him that were really uncalled for.

It would be great if you guys would change your balancing philosophy a little bit. Instead taking a hammer to a champion that may or may not be overpowered and then rebuffing over the next 4 patches like is usually done, it would be a great change of pace to do small conservative nerfs and follow up the next patch if they are still problematic.

As a player its really annoying to have your favorite champions routinely gutted with heavy handed nerfs and only become viable again 6 months down the line when you decide to buff them again.

qetzelJan 26, 20151 votes

Well, they tried that with Sona and what happened?

And when they took a hammer to Riven, yes, it took six months for her to be considered good again. However, the only buffs she got after the 4.1 nerfs were:

v4.5

Stats Base armor increased to 19 from 15.

V4.2: Stats Base health regeneration reduced to 2.5 from 5. Valor Shield strength increased to 90 / 120 / 150 / 180 / 210 from 70 / 100 / 130 / 160 / 190

I suppose that what I am saying is that some champions need serious nerfs, they really need to be bashed repeatedly with a hammer, preferably with spikes on it. And more importantly, that there is no way to please everybody.

DeclinedJan 26, 20151 votes

If you believe burst is a problem, may I ask?

Do you believe it is a problem when it is long range, and can be hard to counter, beyond mobility, with no room to retaliate.
Are you talking about close range, where he also has his shield, giving him a chance to negate some of the damage?

If the first is the problem, it might be a safe solution to create an extra passive to the soldiers with a thematic name such as "Eroded Command" where the damage is decreased by a percentage depending on the proximity to Azir, and the further away he is the less damage they deal.

Just a silly suggestion, but I would like to know why this might, or might not work.

Draco AleksanderJan 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, burst's one of the other things we've been looking at, particularly now that people have go pretty good at chaining his spells/attacks together quickly.

From the moment Azir was confirmed, I followed his development ravenously. I was so ready for him to be my favorite champion for the rest of time.

When he came out, despite all of the bugs, he was clearly out of balance because he didn't meet the "long-term, sustained damage" that his feel as a commander of an army begged for. And then his rebalances pushed him further into burst mage territory. Funny enough, this happened partly because a "bug" was sending his soldiers further out with his Q than was initially intended.

Other commentators are absolutely right: he's a squishy champ. Furthermore, I don't think that should change. He's a field commander, his soldiers do the fighting for him, so it makes sense that he's easily defeated when confronted directly. If you keep a short leash on his soldiers and reduce his damage that just means his win rate is going to plummet to unhealthy levels. However, if you reduce his power and increase his range to the initial "bugged" level, not only would it bring him back to being a sort of Not-Tank Tank, but even introduce some counterplay.

Essentially, having that zone of control keeps people away from him (or at least makes them reluctant to come too close) in a way similar to Heimerdinger's zone of safety created by his turrets. This could be frustrating if it stood alone, since unlike 'dinger, Azir's soldiers can't be targeted. However, if his Q's cooldown were tuned correctly (via experimentation internally and on PBE), you could make it a meaningful choice. Either he gambles on sending the soldiers forward to do some damage and stun the enemy for his jungler, leaving himself open to jumpy champs who can get past his soldiers or the enemy jungler for ganks. Or, he can keep his Q around for escapes.

I'll be back later to elaborate further or continue the discussion, but I've got to get to work now.

VelasanJan 26, 20151 votes

I just want to say that Azir needs the damage and range or he becomes a worse Orianna.

He is still a squishy'ish mage in a world full of gap closing melee and assassins. Originally it seemed like the whole point was to make a mage similar to Yi. In other words your early game would be weak and then late game you would explode into this hyper carry.

I just don't understand what the intention was with Azir. All these bug fixes just seem to make stuttering in his abilities that make them less smooth, and then they keep nerfing him despite the fact that his win rates have never been much higher than around 47-48%. I know win rates aren't everything, but considering how hard he is to micro manage properly already and that you need soldiers just to do damage why go this far?

Do people really just hate playing against Azir that much?

I'm concerned that this effectively makes Azir a no-go, as anyone who wants the abilities he has would be better going for Orianna. He will always be a second tier champion if he continues in this direction.

Guy Fox TeemoJan 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

This is an indicator change only, the spell's actual range isn't increasing.

We're considering Azir nerfs for 5.3, he's stronger in some situations than he should be. Range is one of the possible nerf points (it was while looking at his ranges we realized the indicator was off).

Azir has one of the lowest win rates in game and has the highest skill to play of any champion he's in a perfect spot leave him alone. And stop ruining champions because you have no idea how the game works

Stars ShaperJan 26, 20151 votes

Keep in mind that Azir has a really rough time in fights where there is lots of mobility because in the time he needs to:

set up soldiers (and keep them up)
making them charge (and waiting for them to get there)
starting to attack

most of champions have the time to travel across half map.

I'm playing Azir since release and I know he is a hard carry with really.. really lots of damage with multiple soldiers up and I'm looking forward to the new positioning of them after Q. I agree he needs some tweaking but if you forget that he has already a decent weakness in late game (where he is supposed to be at his peak of power) it will make him useful only as a lane bully.

Fizz is not FishJan 25, 20153 votes

Azir Conquering Sands Indicator now displays the range as 875 instead of 800. No funcional changes to the spell.

SenaJan 25, 20152 votes

I've never played with a mid laner able to beat Azir in my ranked games, and when he's on my team he always sucks. His win rate is below 50% I think overall.

It's like if you have a Shaco/Akali or whatever hypercarry/hit-or-miss champ player on your team, they will always feed 0-20, but on the enemy team they will always go 20-0 kind of thing. Other people claim Azir isn't OP and is easy to deal with, well.....idk. Pretty OP to me imo and the buff made me laugh for the first time out of all the patches.

Colgate MinuetteJan 25, 20152 votes

Why can't you leave him as a "feast or famine" champ.

If you fuck up in the first 10 minutes you are USELESS for the rest of the game.

It's just like Akali, if you mess up in the first 10 minutes you are so fucked. But if you don't then everyone else in the game is your personal bitch.

Pls don't nerf Azir

FirancilJan 26, 20152 votes

As an Azir main myself, he's not really "feast or famine" as long as you're competent enough to use your ult properly you'll still be extremely useful in team fights, if you fall behind your goal is just to help protect your ADC so they can do their job easier. Even if you lose lane on Azir you still have a really good shot at winning if your ADC is even slightly good.

StoningtonJan 25, 20151 votes

Thanks for the clarification.

This might be a bit off topic, but a few years ago you answered questions about skillshot speeds. I'd love to know what the speed of Thresh's Death Sentence and Leona's Zenith Blade are.

RiotMeddlerJan 25, 20156 votes

Thresh Q has a speed of 1900 (though note that's after a half second cast, twice the most common length).

Leona E has a speed of 2000.

DirewolfiezJan 25, 20151 votes

Would you mind giving me the speed of Yasuo's third Steel Tempest? I'm a little curious about just how fast it goes. Not really a support, but while you're here...

RiotMeddlerJan 26, 20153 votes

1200

Sneak DogJan 26, 20153 votes

Errr, this is getting silly, perhaps it'd be an idea to just put casting times/projectile speeds out there? Perhaps in the client or on the website?

AuryielJan 26, 20153 votes

Would it be possible to have access to all this through the LoL website?

TBH I'm not sure why info like casting time, delay, AoE radius, width and speed of projectile is not available anywhere

It could be in an advanced section or something

DirewolfiezJan 26, 20151 votes

Thanks Meddler :D

haywire androidJan 25, 20151 votes

Which "I travel to you" (at lack of better group name for it) skill shot is the fastest in the game?

Lee Sins feels pretty fast (faster than death sentence at least) but that could be that it's so smooth to cast, it doesn't seem to have any wind up time at all.

Lissandras should be the slowest I guess at 850.

(would be curious to know Dredge lines speed as well if you got it).

RiotMeddlerJan 26, 20153 votes

1800 for Lee Q - smooth feeling as you say, rather than raw projectile speed.

Lissandra's E is indeed 850 (same speed as Anivia Q incidentally, which I think is still the slowest skillshot in the game).

Naut's Q's 2000, though with a long cast time.

AerothalJan 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

1800 for Lee Q - smooth feeling as you say, rather than raw projectile speed.

Lissandra's E is indeed 850 (same speed as Anivia Q incidentally, which I think is still the slowest skillshot in the game).

Naut's Q's 2000, though with a long cast time.

What is Zyra's passive's missile speed? I play her a lot and after the 2 sec activation timer you hardly ever hit a mobile champion.

haywire androidJan 26, 20151 votes

Thank you

As an old time dnd player (with all the number crunching that incorporated) it's pretty fun to get a look under the hood of the game and see some of the hidden numbers ^^

A bit surprised about Nautilus Q speed, always felt that he is a quite slow to play (appropriately so I guess in a lumbering behemoth kind of way). But I guess that goes to show that numbers and projectile speed isn't everything and that animation matters a great deal.

If you have the time I've got one last question just out of curiosity; when champions are designed, do animators get a certain time frame for a spell to be cast and animate from that or is it just as often the other way around, ie the animators make a great animation (or I guess mock-up animation) and the champion/ability is play tested to see if it's appropriate from that?

5G8Nri0B54Jan 25, 20151 votes

If you're willing to answer random questions about skillshots, may as well fire one off myself.

You ever going to fix skillshot hitboxes so that they actually fit their animations? Thresh and Blitz's grabs. Leona's sword thingy. Morgana and Lux's snares.

LichbladeJan 25, 20151 votes

@Meddler, another random question

Why Hextech Gunblade is getting a massive buff to the AP side.

When comparing this to WoTA cost and the stats it gvies Gunbalde is getting an unneeded over buff that may push it over the top.

Any contexts into whats the direction behind Gunblade changes?

championmaggotJan 25, 20151 votes

5.1 azir is way nerfed. they need to buff him jst to make usefull instead of having a lower then 40% win rate.

RiotMeddlerJan 25, 201510 votes

Azir wasn't nerfed in patch 5.1. His win rate in normal games does look really low this week, that's a good example of why it's important to treat stats with caution though. Azir's currently in the free week rotation, and he has one of the steepest learning curves in the game. That means his normal game win rate plummets as new people learn him during a free week. His ranked win rate by contrast, where free rotation champs can't be played, is if anything still trending up slightly, at around 50% or so.

Nausicäa Jan 25, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Azir wasn't nerfed in patch 5.1. His win rate in normal games does look really low this week, that's a good example of why it's important to treat stats with caution though. Azir's currently in the free week rotation, and he has one of the steepest learning curves in the game. That means his normal game win rate plummets as new people learn him during a free week. His ranked win rate by contrast, where free rotation champs can't be played, is if anything still trending up slightly, at around 50% or so.

I really hope that you if do decide to nerf him that you're conservative. Particularly with changing his range. He needs to be reasonably long range in order to be effective.

Honestly i feel like Riot is too quick to pull the trigger on nerfs. A popular champion often turns out to be not as strong as they were perceived to be. Champions like Jayce and Syndra were nerfed despite losing a huge amount of steam in the meta without any real changes.

5G8Nri0B54Jan 26, 20151 votes

If anything, just touch his burst. He's supposed to be a DPS mage. Reducing his range would kinda take out the purpose his pseudo-pet system.

Guy Fox TeemoJan 26, 20151 votes

Azir has one of the lowest win rates in game buddy.

AerothalJan 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Azir has one of the lowest win rates in game buddy.

that is not because he is too weak. its because he is hard to play. if he was too weak, he would not be played and banned in LCS. Pros only play viable champions.

Colgate MinuetteJan 26, 20151 votes

I think the only way to "nerf" him without making him unplayable. Would be to give his projectile speed a slight nerf. Maybe make his soldiers move a bit slower?

f00G3MxfPPJan 26, 20151 votes

For a hyper carry, his laning phase is quite strong. I've tried a variety of mid champions and feel that I lose lane to azir more than the usual lane bullies. His soldiers are like movable unkillable longer-ranged heimerdinger turrets that requries a little more micro. Heimerdinger is a lane bully that can be easily ganked and falls off lategame in terms of use/damage. Azir is hard to gank with his dash and ult and provides utility and dps lategame. Plus since you can control when the soldiers attack, you can choose to not push the lane unlike with heimerdinger. His dash is like j4's q. Dash+knockup. His ult has potentially better peel than janna's. It doesn't knock in all directions and doesn't heal but deals damage and creates an impassable wall that dashes can't get through. If you get this off in the jungle or at your nexus gate, it makes a lot of popular melees like irelia or akali useless. I remember seeing a recent competitive game where azir's ult allowed the team to stall to 60+ minutes. It's like prenerf ziggs again.

Colgate MinuetteJan 26, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Golden Liquid,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FHIZw2Gv,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2015-01-26T04:05:57.154+0000)

For a hyper carry, his laning phase is quite strong. I've tried a variety of mid champions and feel that I lose lane to azir more than the usual lane bullies. His soldiers are like movable unkillable longer-ranged heimerdinger turrets that requries a little more micro. Heimerdinger is a lane bully that can be easily ganked and falls off lategame in terms of use/damage. Azir is hard to gank with his dash and ult and provides utility and dps lategame. Plus since you can control when the soldiers attack, you can choose to not push the lane unlike with heimerdinger. His dash is like j4's q. Dash+knockup. His ult has potentially better peel than janna's. It doesn't knock in all directions and doesn't heal but deals damage and creates an impassable wall that dashes can't get through. If you get this off in the jungle or at your nexus gate, it makes a lot of popular melees like irelia or akali useless. I remember seeing a recent competitive game where azir's ult allowed the team to stall to 60+ minutes. It's like prenerf ziggs again.

Heimer cannot be easily ganked... The fuq?