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Veigar PBE Discussion

f00G3MxfPP·2/13/2015, 3:28:35 PM·3 votes·1,049 views

I'll start. I like the q changes if it has acceptable missile speed.

But the e changes are a big no-no. I understand that riot wants to fix the "stun champion from a mile away instantly and burst them down." But if you look at the mages that are never played, what they all have in common is no instant reliable cc to defend yourself when xin zhao or master yi jumps on you. It does not matter if you are 10/0 brand and a 0/10 xin zhao jumps on you. You're going to get 1v1ed and killed, which feels really unfair.

If a champion does not have a quick reliable dash (also a defensive skill), some examples:

Brand requires two abilities to stun someone. There's no way you can use a w since it's delayed, but even eq have cast times. Syndra's qe was perfect--knockback and stun, but since the patch it's much less reliable and again two abilities. Karma's tether takes a while for someone to be rooted. Ziggs satchel takes a while to load and hard to aim.

Lissandra's w is great against melee gapclosers. It instantly roots multiple people and you don't have to aim it (difficult to aim skillshot at 0 range sometimes). Her e is slow so I don't count it as reliable dash. Annie has a point and click stun. Xerath has a quick stun ball.

Karthus is a special case since he can die and be fine.

I'm not saying that Brand needs major buffs. The potential for a Brand to be devastating and aoe burst an entire team is still there. Just that few people would want to play a champion that has no counterplay to a huge amount of champions in this game. If you're playing veigar and facing katarina, she hits 6 and goes into ult you... you use your stun... oh fuck it has a delay. See how bad delaying cc is Riot? The common argument to katarina's ult is to just cc it. And I agree and I play katarina. I think the problem is not that katarina's ult deals too much damage. The problem is that some champions can't cc her fast enough. tl;dr, make veigar's stun charge time scale with how close the cage is to veigar or something.

Side Note. If Riot's intention with veigar is to have someone dance around in the cage, then why is the duration of the cage 3 seconds and the stun 2.5 seconds? Doesn't make sense that the stun is almost the same duration as the cage.

5 Comments

Fojer2/13/2015, 3:48:05 PM1 votes

The case of Veigar stun is that it's a huge aoe and has a great zoning potential even when you dont instant stun someone with it, riot is trying to give a little counterplay basically just for the instant stun at large range in my opinion. When you get collapsed upon you can still use cage effectively in a way that you will be able to leave the zone after 0.75s while enemies will have to stay inside, so defensively you put the cage a little bit ahead of yourself and walk out while it lands. The thing about dancing in the cage is that you can still use abilities and auto attacks inside cage if not stunned and you can blink out of it even after it's up. Riot also made great change to the q that it stops at the second target it hits so if you're facing a katarina you can still poke her down low enough to deny her all in even while farming minions for ap. Great idea to make his cage land quicker while cast close to veigar, this will make his escapes more reliable. I think the debate to change Veigar stun was make it much smaller area vs delayed stun, and i think the latter is a better option.

AHeroNamedHawke2/13/2015, 4:01:03 PM1 votes

You know a 0.75 second delay isnt actually that long right?

You just cant click people at 800 range and instantly kill them anymore