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Should the summoner spell Fortify return?

xelaker··230 votes·8,225 views

For those of you who don't remember, or weren't around for the spell, it was a global summoner spell that made all turrets invulnerable to damage and increased attack speed 100% for 7 seconds with a 300 second cd (same as summoner 4 or summoner 12 for reference ). It also gave some minor damage to minions if it was off of cd.

It was removed from league in 2011, due to a lack of use (back then, if you can believe it, turrets weren't made of wet paper) and as another step of shortening game lengths and preventing perpetual stalls. All good stuff...then. Now with the increase in damage and a hard lean to faster games, most games are decided at the 10 min mark, as one team will have first turret gold and the added pressure of roaming that comes with it causing the other team to collapse to defend or face increased ganks and roaming. Fortify might be a good way to put the brakes on the 4min 4 man gank bot to take bot turret.

Maybe nobody would use it, and maybe it would end up doing more damage then good. Just an idea, any thoughts?

and before ya'll hop on and tell me about the time you 1v5 and got a penta kill, saved your turret and was crowned "the greatest player ever, and nobody can say any different because, internet!" I don't care...There is literally no part of me that cares about your story. There's a person(s) who has defied odds and common outcomes on literally everything in the damn game. Lest we all forget the time Ap crit Soraka fought 6 champions in hexakill after being afk the first 20 min and got a penta, against all odds saved the turret and thus doesn't need fortify... Put forth conversation and reasoning, not campfire stories about glory. You wanna do that write fanfiction about league or some nonsense....

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Edit: this is my first post to really get beyond 1-2 pages and get an real number of likes. thanks guys it's pretty cool, lots of good ideas on both sides and tons of new ideas I didn't consider.

140 Comments

S0kaX74 votes

So I won't lose my tower the first time I recall? Yes please.

Kinetika4 votes

{quoted}

So I won't lose my tower the first time I recall? Yes please.

^ This.

Elikain5 votes

You'd rather not lose any towers till 30 minutes of the game and then lose them all in one enemy push?

S0kaX3 votes

Yep, less early gold for the enemy team

Elikain4 votes

That also means less for for you as well. Because you aren't the only player that can take Fortify and set up a situation where your team can't completely dive under a turret or else it's going to kill you all. So people wouldn't even do it and the laning phases would devolve into pointless, small skirmishes and ganks that amount to nothing.

S0kaX4 votes

Still better than first tower being at min 6.

Elikain4 votes

It isn't, really. You want to trade one bad situation with another bad situation, only to come back here again to complain about that fact. If we're identifying problems, let's also propose solutions. This clearly isn't a valid solution if you're just happy to trade all of this for Ryze being the pick/ban champion and his scaling comrades.

Krystle46 votes

[deleted]

Triggies4 votes

Is this a Batman reference?

NightmareAmazoX9 votes

Duh.

GULAG 4 U5 votes

Clearly it's a pokemon reference

TheDelighted37 votes

I could see it working. I imagine it would be an alternative to exhaust for supports, or teleport for top laners. I would love to see more summoners spells to be honest.

xelaker9 votes

{quoted}

I could see it working. I imagine it would be an alternative to exhaust for supports, or teleport for top laners. I would love to see more summoners spells to be honest.

yea I'd like more variety in our sums

Elikain3 votes

Riot already discussed this. For the time being, they see no valid reason to put more Summoner Spells into the mix or increase the limit to 3 - or delete Flash. None of these solutions address any particular problems with the game, it would just add to the power creep or simply remove the viability of some immobile champions (removing Flash).

For example, Surge was also one Summoner Spell that existed at one point in time - granting AP and AS to the champion. Imagine which champions were the best beneficiaries of this spell (Trynda, Kayle and a few other champions that depended solely from AS buys). So, balancing those champions with Surge would have to be done the same way as balancing Akali and Vlad was with WotA in the past.

TheDelighted2 votes

Adding more summoners spells will provide more "variety" and you can choose to "counter" specific mechanics with new summoners spells. I wouldn't mind a temporary are granting grounded debuff or an area that reduces healing and shielding or a skillshot that fires an extra projectile of damage or disguise yourself as an ally (black market pls :( ). Anyway I think adding more summoners spells will actually improve game health because we would have more means to counter specific mechanics that are otherwise too obnoxious to play against.

Elikain3 votes

we would have more means to counter specific mechanics that are otherwise too obnoxious to play against.

What are these mechanics specifically? Judging by the examples you've given me, suddenly giving champions a "Grounded" debuff prevents them from using movement abilities and some champions depend on that to function. If you can always threaten their combo with that Summoner Spell, why would they even engage you in the first place, if it meant certain death?

You call it obnoxious but their kit has been designed with that in mind. If you simply shut it down until you get a kill, that kit has no real value in games.

If you're suddenly giving champions a "healing/shielding" debuff, then Soraka, Jaina and SOna are completely worthless, if you manage to apply Grevious Wounds as well. Their entire gameplay revolves around such utility and if you shut it down with a click of a button, their entire gameplay falls apart.

Those "counter" situations you're talking about aren't proving to solve any issues. It looks to me like you're looking for a way to shut down particular champions. And i'm not a fan of adding Anti-[Champion Name] Spells" to the game.

TheDelighted1 votes

The mechanics I'm talking about are mobility, shielding and healing and stuff like that. If you are taking it to champion level then I guess every immobile mage is balanced around flash and ghost because their kit is designed to be immobile but these cover their weakness.

Elikain3 votes

Flash is available to everyone and the default Summoner is Flash. So yes, Flash by design is a balanced Summoner Spell.

Because giving every champion this ability doesn't make any difference. LeBlanc has 2 dashes and a Flash, Syndra only has a Flash. If Flash didn't exist, Syndra would have no mobility while LeBlanc only two dashes still. The mobility to immobility ratio remains the same. One champion's Flash cancels the use of another Flash on the same lane.

Now, one could say that since those summoner spells you propose are just that, potentially every champion can use it so if you cancel your opponents healing/sheilding or mobility, he can do exactly the same to you.

But here's where the difference lies: Will those summoner spells become default Summoner Spells like Flash? So will you have Flash + [New Summoner Spell] being the default spells?

If that's the case: Bad design - the rest of Summoner Spells are never used.

If that isn't the case: Bad design - these new spells are used as hard counters to the champions who's kit revolves around the use of skills it blocks. Just their existence threatens these champions from ever being picked.

TheDelighted1 votes

People get sucked in the meta they start balancing things around it. The same happened to masteries. No. Having more options for summoners spells don't reduce the effectiveness of others. There will just be new spells to choose from. They are not locked behind any items so anyone should be able to take them just like flash exhaust, ghost and all the current spells.

I suggested these spells as an example and not a ready in game spell. With more spells I wish we finally get away from summoners spells meta of adc picks heal, support picks exhaust, etc. If new spells were to be included support could choose between getting a cc to shut down mobile assassins from killing them, and the assassin could pick up heal/shield debuff to reduce the effectiveness of the support or picking the current choices if that's good. ALWAYS HAVING A CHOICE.

Also THERE ARE NO DEFAULT SPELLS! Spells and masteries should be used based on the situation and not because of their power. Heck even flash gets replaced for other spells in certain champions.

Now, we have ignite a pretty straightforward spell. Point and click damaging and applying GRIEVOUS WOUNDS which reduces the effectiveness of heals. Is this a bad design? From your point of view it should as it reduces healing effectiveness against certain champions with regen and healing spells in their kit. Another current example exhaust. It slows ms and as as well as breaking resistances. It counters attack speed reliant champions like yi or most of marksmen and/or assassins Another spell including both of your above bad design features. Cleanse. It removes all cc (not suppression) and gains resistance of 65% for new ones. It counters all cc heavy champions as well as it is rarely actually used. A skill that by your standards of bad design should make most spells obsolete.

Elikain2 votes

Yes, on Olaf Flash is replaced with a Ghost. Ryze doesn't need combat spells, he's pretty strong himself so he uses both Flash + Ghost. And honestly, this is the default setting for mid laners in general at the moment. They want more escape options to guarantee their escape or chasing the target because they're inherently immobile.

Flash is the default for all champions. Only a few champions actually can make that switch. If you do make that switch as a Marksman or Support, if you get flanked by the enemy champion, you have no escape options if your champion doesn't have an inherent blink or dash. Assassins would never get this utility block as they could kill through it anyway. They use flash and Ignite or something else, very rarely, if they need it. They can get through shields anyway and with Ignite, it already counters healing effects.

Supports don't use anything else besides Flash, Exhaust or very rarely Ignite as everything else offered is a selfish summoner spell, only benefiting yourself. Marksmen do the same - Flash + Heal, suited for a duo lane.

And this isn't a problem of summoner spells. You can certainly say: "the meta dictates..." and you'd be right. But the bottom line is that if a top laner can do more with a TP than with Ignite, why take Ignite in the first place? If selfish summoner spells aren't making a difference because the games can't be won from just one lane (and not because they're weak), there's only one option. You have to pick Flash/Ghost for utility and you have to pick a team summoner spell, appropriate for your lane. Maybe an overhaul of Summoner Spells is needed but even if there's 10 spells to rework, changing an underlying system that plays a big part in the balance of champions is not an easy task to accomplish.

Truly Prideful27 votes

Given how the game has changed I think Fortify would have a good chance of seeing more play then before. At least having one on your team would offer kind of a deterrent to those 4 man dives since you could beef up the turret and force an unfavorable trade if they're not fast enough. Could also help scaling comps make it into the later game in this time where games are over at 20-25 minutes.

jurrrr16 votes

yes pls riot bring this back

Elikain4 votes

Why bring it back? You didn't offer any explanation so i have to assume you want it because you just want more spells. But those spells that are introduced solely for forced diversity, will introduce balance issues that would have to be addressed. Fortify itself would completely prolong games and make turrets practically a non-issue in early enough dives, forcing only scaling team comps. And once one team gets that advantage, all of the turrets would fall almost instantly because the champions themselves are strong enough to take them without any problems.

So we come from gradually losing our base defenses and slowly having to fight our way back to map control or equalizing the advantage to completely losing an entire lane(s) worth of turrets with one teamfight gone wrong, because the death timers are also longer.

ModAcademy Kayn4 votes

Don't bother. I explain why I think it won't work and I get downvoted. People aren't here for reason, they're here for the weak tower circle jerk.

Elikain4 votes

I'd rather have people not fear the downvotes but say what's on their mind when talking about balance issue or adding/removing features from the game.

If they aren't here to talk about balance, then they are the ones who don't belong here. We do. If they want to participate, then i see no reason why not contribute, if that was the intention in the first place.

jurrrr1 votes

Because yesterday i played vs'd a tryn that took 2 towers after i got ganked at like 12:39 into the game. Nerf tryn, buff towers, or add this spell

Elikain3 votes

One instance of you losing two towers against no one else but Tryndamere isn't proof of towers being weak. Tryndamere is champion made to splitpush. If he loses the lane, he's shit out of luck and has to take that punishment for the entire laning phase, where he doesn't even group with his team but still farms his own lane and pushes towers when no one's looking at him.

If he wins the laning phase, with that one early kill by himself or a gank, you're shit out of luck and then have to take his punishment + ult under a turret when it's available. And he still pushes your towers without even giving a damn whether you're under them or not.

Basically, Tryndamere is a champion that relies heavily on his lane advantage. For him, that 1% crit rune might mean a kill or death in a lvl 1 confrontation with you and ultimately, he's design is outdated. For such a glaring and exploitable weakness, he has an equally oppressive strength. He's a textbook example (along with Aatrox) of a binary champion. He either works better than expected or he's never viable. Just one small buff or nerf in their direction is always risky move.

ReZisT Lust15 votes

remember the spell revive i remember. reMember how usefull it would be nowadays in the burst meta.

Around999People7 votes

I used it so much rofl. Revive+tp top <3

Rewt9 votes

Dota 2 has a system like this and if you can believe it, its infuriating. This summoner spell would pretty much negate split pushing champs. while you are thinking in the right direction, bringing the spell back is not the right decision.

Really we just need to buff the turret health because they are made of wet paper..... they need to be made of strong soviet steel again

Wert the Wacky8 votes

In Soviet League, turrets aren't made out of wet paper, you are wet paper.

Rajin Kajin 2 votes

1.941 million dmg first shot, 7.62 million the second shot.

Anidan2 votes

The glyph system is fine. It's there to protect towers from split-pushing (as you mentioned) and ratting so the enemy can't just have 4 people distract your team the entire game while your Nature's Prophet or Lone Druid just grabs up free towers from the space you created for them - they'll have to earn that tower, even if it just means waiting until the glyph is over before they grab it. Remember: the glyph system is strong, but Nature's Prophet can be literally anywhere on the map every 20 seconds. It has to contend with people like that.

Other than that, though, I agree: League needs to buff tower defenses because they are piss weak.

Envoy of Melody8 votes

It needs minor nerfs, one of them being a 30 second "Anti-Fortify" time like Heal has that prevents people from stacking the timer to an outrageous amount of 35 seconds if everyone uses it.

LichKing2342 votes

like have it set to like a full min before you can use it on the same turrent or at the very least a min 30 secs

IllegalBagel6 votes

upvoted holy shit we need this

XIII Vanitas5 votes

No, it shouldn't, it was removed for good reasons and the problems we have right now can be solved without bringing Fortify back into the game.

Narsicus5 votes

To clarify, I am pretty sure that Fortify was removed because teams would take it on every player which gave them over half a minute of sustained turret invulnerability every 300s.

This really extended games, as you can imagine, and made it really difficult to close out games or be aggressive in general.

I'm not really sure I want to go back to that time.

Myrmiron5 votes

Fortify also made turrets deal AOE damage if I remember correctly.

PB4UAME3 votes

Indeed, 50% splash damage.

inplane5 votes

Would definitely take Fortify as a Support. That way people can't just come bot with sheer numbers and have their way.

Try to start a snowball down at bot? It'll be a shame if turrets were to turn into machine guns...

Unicky5 votes

I think that bringing fortify back sounds like an amazing idea especially in competitive play where 3 or 4 man tower dives are as common as ice cream in the summertime. My only problem is that I feel like usage wouldn't get a whole lot better in solo queue. Sure, it'll be popular as hell for a few weeks but then it'd probably fall off with the majority of the player base because they wouldn't know how to use it properly.

LichKing2342 votes

i hope its chocolate ice cream but i agree it would be like faker and his team took 5 man fortify and won LCS time to try it in my solo que game and fuck my entire team XD*[slayer-jinx-catface]*

Pale Pirate4 votes

5 man premade tanks with teleport/revive and fortify, never ending games, never forget item 3070

FTD Dragon4 votes

This would be interesting to bring back. It would definetly be nice to see and people would be able to use it to an advantage for outplays or to protect themselves from turret dives from very fed champions. Id love to see this sum to come back

58697132DEL14 votes

Voted up for that end paragraph alone! For real you're "OMG super broken play one time" where you channeled the inner spirit of faker and managed a comeback. That doesnt mean there isnt a problem to solve :/

But on topic: I only started league in 2013 so i never knew such a spell! :o it sounds pretty good, maybe could use adjusting. Can a poll be added to this thread?

(On a personal note, I would like Revive back but thats just me. Like i literally think its just me. upvote my comment if you'd want revive back)

LichKing2342 votes

if you played dominion even once it was there it was removed from SR do to underuse

ItsOrval1 votes

seems broken to me. Imagine having 5 team mates taking that. If it is able to be used when you die, then people could just use it when they get aced, and lose no objectives.

Paroe7 votes

{quoted}

seems broken to me. Imagine having 5 team mates taking that. If it is able to be used when you die, then people could just use it when they get aced, and lose no objectives.

It would likley be a single target thing for a turret youre in range of.

"Fortify: Bolster a turret you are in range of by increasing its attack speed to 2.5 and granting it rapid regeneration for 5 seconds. Enemy champions who enter turret range while fortify is active will be targeted before minions. Regeneration is equal to between 10% missing health and 46% missing health based on level. If a regenerating turret is attacked, its regeneration is halved."

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