Jungle Assassins and Tanks

bvcderrttyyhjjjk·May 11, 2015·1 votes·640 views

I feel like Riot has inverted S4 situation: everyone picked assassins and tanks were considered unviable (although I had 78% winrate with Nautilus jungle on over 50 games); now everyone uses tanks and assassins are really not good to climb with. That is not what strategic diversity looks like, that is just inverting the situation. Inverting overpowered with underpowered does not make for a better environment. Same thing happening, just the opposite. I really hope they focus a little bit more on solving this, because I really don't think the jungle is in a good state.

17 Comments

Hasztalan2May 11, 20153 votes

Why are braindead ppl allowed to post in gameplay&balance?

Assassins unviable? pls show me how bad theese champs are :

Zed Ahri Diana Riven Rengar Nidalee Leblanc and many more waht i cba to list. Theese are even pretty fotm champions for long period of time in yoloq.

Very Hard EngageMay 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Why are braindead ppl allowed to post in gameplay&balance?

Assassins unviable? pls show me how bad theese champs are :

and many more waht i cba to list. Theese are even pretty fotm champions for long period of time in yoloq.

well.... maybe not diana. unless shes really fed....

Hasztalan2May 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

well.... maybe not diana. unless shes really fed....

Diana Diana is becoming the next fotm champ as of now. Ppl finally realised how strong she is with luden and lichbnae god forbid she even purchases a nashor.

She even popped in competetive play recently and she acquired quite beastly stats.

bvcderrttyyhjjjkMay 11, 20151 votes

Well, almost all of the champions there are laners. I am talking about junglers, not laners.

Hasztalan2May 11, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Well, almost all of the champions there are laners. I am talking about junglers, not laners.

Diana Rengar Nidalee

IcyPepperMay 11, 20151 votes

I think Vi is more of a bruiser than an assassin due to her best builds (and passive) building a little tanky.

Troy242621May 11, 20151 votes

I feel like carry junglers are still really good, all in all.However. They do need to re-buff the Devourer, and Poacher's Knife is just pathetic. If they do this. farming junglers and counterjunglers will be in a lot better place.

It'd be an interesting dynamic if Carry, Control and Pressure jungle styles were all viable at once.

bvcderrttyyhjjjkMay 11, 20151 votes

Their problem is they can't carry a game where lanes are doing bad. They used to be able to do that. Now they can't do anything if enemy laners are ahead: they fall behind in levels, have no damage and no kill potential and become useless.

BringYourOwnPumaMay 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Their problem is they can't carry a game where lanes are doing bad. They used to be able to do that. Now they can't do anything if enemy laners are ahead: they fall behind in levels, have no damage and no kill potential and become useless.

The key as a carry jungle isn't to help failing lanes. It's to either get fed yourself or feed a lane that can carry the team. If your mid is getting absolutely smashed - they need to back off and play defensively while you get top/bot fed.

BringYourOwnPumaMay 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I feel like Riot has inverted S4 situation: everyone picked assassins and tanks were considered unviable (although I had 78% winrate with Nautilus jungle on over 50 games); now everyone uses tanks and assassins are really not good to climb with. That is not what strategic diversity looks like, that is just inverting the situation. Inverting overpowered with underpowered does not make for a better environment. Same thing happening, just the opposite. I really hope they focus a little bit more on solving this, because I really don't think the jungle is in a good state.

I have no problem with carrying on Shaco. I started a week ago silver 3, am gold V now and climbing. In fact the only teams where he doesn't really work against are teams with a tanky mid AND top.. which are rare.

Jungle Lux GodMay 11, 20151 votes

In Season 4, tank junglers were unviable.

In Season 5, assassin junglers are not completely unviable. We still see assassins coming out of the jungle. We saw Shaco, of all picks, win a game in the EU LCS playoffs. Likewise, we saw a lot of jungle Nidalee, who is also an assassin.

The difference isn't in the jungle changes, but in the balance of many of the jungle assassins. Kha'Zix was nerfed hard. Eve was nerfed hard. Elise was nerfed hard (although if I'm not mistaken she was built more as a bruiser in her time of dominance). It's less a problem with the game not allowing for assassins to be viable in the jungle, but instead the meta assassin junglers are not good in the jungle anymore due to balance changes in their own kit.

BringYourOwnPumaMay 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

In Season 4, tank junglers were unviable.

In Season 5, assassin junglers are not completely unviable. We still see assassins coming out of the jungle. We saw Shaco, of all picks, win a game in the EU LCS playoffs. Likewise, we saw a lot of jungle Nidalee, who is also an assassin.

The difference isn't in the jungle changes, but in the balance of many of the jungle assassins. Kha'Zix was nerfed hard. Eve was nerfed hard. Elise was nerfed hard (although if I'm not mistaken she was built more as a bruiser in her time of dominance). It's less a problem with the game not allowing for assassins to be viable in the jungle, but instead the meta assassin junglers are not good in the jungle anymore due to balance changes in their own kit.

Assassins are certainly viable in the jungle. On my Silver account i went from Silv 3 to Gold V with Shaco pretty much exclusively. The jungle changes made it harder in the beginning for some jungles, but the massive income increase means now I can have 6 items end game on my shaco. A split pushing shaco can melt turrets and inhibitors in seconds. In team fights I can kill most carries in under 2 seconds using deceive, hydra and shiv (And flash out to repeat this). The problem is these champions aren't as straightforward or as easy to play as tanks which literally can rush into the middle of a group of enemies with very little strategy or thought before hand. They most often aren't as skill heavy and by virtue of health/armor/MR will last longer.

TLDR: Assassins do your job. Delete carries, split push. Assassin jungle is still viable and even competetive (as we saw in LCS).

bvcderrttyyhjjjkMay 12, 20151 votes

I would honestly hesitate to use Shaco as an example. He has a pretty... peculiar kit. You can't really compare him to anyone else... IMO he's pretty OP with free flashes, invisibility until he's in your butthole, and a wicked damage. Most other assassins can't gank people unnoticed like he can. Rito even nerfed all stealth ults ( Khazix Rengar ) for other people. Sometimes I feel they are incoherent with their changes, and only nerf FoTM champs. They nerfed Kha because he was mobile and had melty damage, while Shaco for example went untouched although he pretty much does the same thing. Not sure what Rito's rationale is sometimes.

bvcderrttyyhjjjkMay 12, 20151 votes

That is also true. A lot of the assassins I used to play (Kha'Zix, Rengar and Vi) all got nerfed pretty heavily. Combine that with the stronger jungle, and you have yourself a recipe for an early game so weak that you sometimes get invaded by tanks.

Titanium70May 11, 20151 votes

Atm EVERYTHING is viable - we see Urgot Vladimir and Varus! Dont complain and adapt. We all had to, and now it´s the most fun META ever! Why? Because chances are good to get in 5 Games 5 diffrent opponents and not 24/7 Riven-LB-Lee-Zed!

IcyPepperMay 11, 20151 votes

Uh, assassins and mages are still being played and they're still deleting squishies.

They're all viable, assassins and mages just have a harder time killing tanks for the obvious reasons.