can you keep azir trash tier

squirrelah·Apr 20, 2015·3 votes·1,498 views

hes extremely unfun to play against and nearly impossible to stop if they have any idea what they are doing.

you cant all in him, he outranges you, he outzones you, you cant keep him from farming and you cant realistically gank him if he isnt stupid.

im not saying hes easy to play im saying if you can play him he has way too much in his kit.

if he was released two years ago he wouldnt have any mobility at all and he wouldnt have a slow in his kit for apaprently no reason.

20 Comments

TheRakkunApr 20, 20153 votes

Are you serious? here are some weaknesses: His dash needs 3 moves and as such has a long cast time, in the time you can dash you might aswell walk to the location you want. If he uses more than 2 soldiers he has no escape. Early game his Mana costs are through the roof and his damage is sub-par. He takes tonnes of skill to position correctly, one mistake and he's dead. Flashes. Item hungry. His soldiers range are based off him, forcing him to go in if he wants to move them.

squirrelahApr 20, 20151 votes

his dash is basically two moves. also his mana costs are some of the lowest in the game. 70 40 60 and none of them scale to higher.

"one mistake and hes dead"

unless his dash is up, or his ult is up, or his flash is up or his zhonyas is up.

Also dont act like being "in position" is difficult for him his soldiers have obscene range and last 9 whole seconds.

Ill admit hes weak at lv 1, and is generally weaker early in the game but he goes from being good to obscenely overpowered onces he gets 3+ items. Unddogeable long range high damage spells are not fair. You are going to get hit atleast once before you are forced to leave a a huge area for 9 seconds.

You cannot stop him from farming, you cant all in him, and you can gank him, unless they make a massive mistake(which is possible because his controls are awkward). But thats not really fair that you have to hope that they make a mistake to get any sort of advantage.

stuartk11Apr 20, 20151 votes

{quoted} unless his dash is up, or his ult is up, or his flash is up or his zhonyas is up.

Also dont act like being "in position" is difficult for him his soldiers have obscene range and last 9 whole seconds.

Ill admit hes weak at lv 1, and is generally weaker early in the game but he goes from being good to obscenely overpowered onces he gets 3+ items. Unddogeable long range high damage spells are not fair. You are going to get hit atleast once before you are forced to leave a a huge area for 9 seconds.

You cannot stop him from farming, you cant all in him, and you can gank him, unless they make a massive mistake(which is possible because his controls are awkward). But thats not really fair that you have to hope that they make a mistake to get any sort of advantage.

There are quite a few problems with what you've said here. Though I will say that his ability to poke effectively with his Q should be reduced.

To be begin, 2 of the escapes that you have stated are available to pretty much every single champion in the game, regardless of role. A third, being a dash, is available to many popular champions, and some have it up more often, and others multiples (such as Ahri, Kassasin etc). That ultimate though. It's quite strong, and great for disengaging. But most champions have powerful ultimates. Kassadin has amazing mobility, Sona has a massive AoE stun, Orianna has large damage and displacement. They all have their own ultimates that gives them strengths. Though think of his ultimate what you will, because it certainly is strong.

I will say that his early game, while not being good, should actually be bad. I would allow him to scale into the later game without feeling as though there wasn't much you could do to stop him. If he was weaker in lane, then you could push him out of turret and pick a lane bully if given the opportunity to counterpick him (though you won't always. I get it).

I do still think that his Q should be more about positioning than damage. This would let him play as a zoning mage very effectively, and not just poke the opponent easily. It would let him keep his large team-fight presence while allowing the opponent to play against him easier (though this would NOT be a nerf, but would need to be a power change from his Q to his W).

squirrelahApr 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

There are quite a few problems with what you've said here. Though I will say that his ability to poke effectively with his Q should be reduced.

To be begin, 2 of the escapes that you have stated are available to pretty much every single champion in the game, regardless of role. A third, being a dash, is available to many popular champions, and some have it up more often, and others multiples (such as Ahri, Kassasin etc). That ultimate though. It's quite strong, and great for disengaging. But most champions have powerful ultimates. Kassadin has amazing mobility, Sona has a massive AoE stun, Orianna has large damage and displacement. They all have their own ultimates that gives them strengths. Though think of his ultimate what you will, because it certainly is strong.

I will say that his early game, while not being good, should actually be bad. I would allow him to scale into the later game without feeling as though there wasn't much you could do to stop him. If he was weaker in lane, then you could push him out of turret and pick a lane bully if given the opportunity to counterpick him (though you won't always. I get it).

I do still think that his Q should be more about positioning than damage. This would let him play as a zoning mage very effectively, and not just poke the opponent easily. It would let him keep his large team-fight presence while allowing the opponent to play against him easier (though this would NOT be a nerf, but would need to be a power change from his Q to his W).

the fact that he can aoe down entire teams late game and how ridiculously safe he is with his long range and mobility(and ult) means i think he SHOULD be extremely weak early game. Name a single person who can aoe down an entire team from that range that has as many defensive abilities as him. most champions either fall into one category or the other. For example, anivia can kill entire teams but she has 0 mobility and is relatively short range. kassadin is mobile but doesnt do near the damage and is relatively short range, ahri is also very mobile but doesnt do nearly the damage and cant do it at that range. Ziggs can do the damage and has the range but isnt as safe if he gets jumped, same with xerath.

Unless they make it so you can get out of his q poke easier, and make it so he can actually be threatened while dealing damage he will continue to be a supremely cancerous champion whos only weakness is not being played to his full potential.

stuartk11Apr 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

the fact that he can aoe down entire teams late game and how ridiculously safe he is with his long range and mobility(and ult) means i think he SHOULD be extremely weak early game. Name a single person who can aoe down an entire team from that range that has as many defensive abilities as him. most champions either fall into one category or the other. For example, anivia can kill entire teams but she has 0 mobility and is relatively short range. kassadin is mobile but doesnt do near the damage and is relatively short range, ahri is also very mobile but doesnt do nearly the damage and cant do it at that range. Ziggs can do the damage and has the range but isnt as safe if he gets jumped, same with xerath.

Unless they make it so you can get out of his q poke easier, and make it so he can actually be threatened while dealing damage he will continue to be a supremely cancerous champion whos only weakness is not being played to his full potential.

This has a lot of truth to it. He can deal quite a lot of damage later on into the game. He does, however, require a soldier to be available to use his dash and is short ranged. But the rate that his soldiers recharge later on into the game is quite high. I still think that if he had a weaker early game, and had damage switched from his Q to his W, then he would be healthier but not nerfed. His range to autoattack with his soldiers is around 1100, which is about the range of a lot of other abilities in the game, such as Veigar's Q. It's around the same range that a mage would be able to be effective from anyways. He still needs to have his identity and strength to be worth playing over most other mid-lane mages.

squirrelahApr 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

This has a lot of truth to it. He can deal quite a lot of damage later on into the game. He does, however, require a soldier to be available to use his dash and is short ranged. But the rate that his soldiers recharge later on into the game is quite high. I still think that if he had a weaker early game, and had damage switched from his Q to his W, then he would be healthier but not nerfed. His range to autoattack with his soldiers is around 1100, which is about the range of a lot of other abilities in the game, such as Veigar's Q. It's around the same range that a mage would be able to be effective from anyways. He still needs to have his identity and strength to be worth playing over most other mid-lane mages.

veigars q is way more unreliable to land than azirs soldiers, in addition to dealig less damage over time, and being less likely to hit multiple champions.(not to mention that azir has multiple soldiers out at a time). He also has no mobility and a worse defensive ability(grant it it was only recently made worse, and azirs is an ult).

As i stated before there are no otehr cahmpions that are as safe as azir that do as much damage as him.

stuartk11Apr 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

veigars q is way more unreliable to land than azirs soldiers, in addition to dealig less damage over time, and being less likely to hit multiple champions.(not to mention that azir has multiple soldiers out at a time). He also has no mobility and a worse defensive ability(grant it it was only recently made worse, and azirs is an ult).

As i stated before there are no otehr cahmpions that are as safe as azir that do as much damage as him.

The comparison to Veigar was only an example (mostly because he isn't exactly stellar right now. I could have said a champion that had decent safety, such as Ezreal, Corki or Nidalee. Even Ziggs's Satchel charge lets him escape around the same distance that Azir would with his W and E. But remember that Azir can W Q E a decent distance aswell.

Sinister SnailApr 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

his dash is basically two moves. also his mana costs are some of the lowest in the game. 70 40 60 and none of them scale to higher.

"one mistake and hes dead"

unless his dash is up, or his ult is up, or his flash is up or his zhonyas is up.

Also dont act like being "in position" is difficult for him his soldiers have obscene range and last 9 whole seconds.

Ill admit hes weak at lv 1, and is generally weaker early in the game but he goes from being good to obscenely overpowered onces he gets 3+ items. Unddogeable long range high damage spells are not fair. You are going to get hit atleast once before you are forced to leave a a huge area for 9 seconds.

You cannot stop him from farming, you cant all in him, and you can gank him, unless they make a massive mistake(which is possible because his controls are awkward). But thats not really fair that you have to hope that they make a mistake to get any sort of advantage.

Salt detected.

http://na.op.gg/summoner/matches/userName=Squirrelah

Yeah, you're going to get outranged as lissandra. You have a dash and heavy CC though, that's not an unwinnable matchup.

TheRakkunApr 20, 20151 votes

Like I said the escape is very fickle as it means losing his offensive capabilities, not only that the FULL cost of his dash, including moving and placing the damn soldier is high.

My other point is that due to it being several abilities the dash takes a LONG time to execute, you would not believe how many times I have been killed while trying to escape, he has to place his soldier, dash it, wait until the dash is complete (because he dashes to the soldiers CURRENT location, not where it will be) THEN use his escape.

Sinister SnailApr 20, 20152 votes

If you think he's OP with no weaknesses, try playing as him. He's on free week atm.

Drunk RummateApr 20, 20151 votes

He's actually got a ton of vulnerabilities in lane, especially pre6. He can farm with his W to be safe or he can harass you with WQ and farm with autos and not be safe. That's a choice he has to make due to mana constraints. If he's farming safely with W then just freeze the wave on your side because he naturally pushes. If he's harassing with Q then walk out of his soldier and zone him from CS in between his cooldowns since he has nothing left and his early mana costs are very high.

squirrelahApr 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

He's actually got a ton of vulnerabilities in lane, especially pre6. He can farm with his W to be safe or he can harass you with WQ and farm with autos and not be safe. That's a choice he has to make due to mana constraints. If he's farming safely with W then just freeze the wave on your side because he naturally pushes. If he's harassing with Q then walk out of his soldier and zone him from CS in between his cooldowns since he has nothing left and his early mana costs are very high.

compare mana costs to every other mid laner. also consider the fact that one soldier can clear the back line and if you started dorans ring that gives you significantly more mana efficiency per spell than every other mid laner early on(no one can clear the back line at lv 1 with one spell, he can)

warpenguin555Apr 20, 20151 votes

No. learn counterplay. es OP

Colgate GatorApr 20, 20151 votes

There's no way you can expect people to support your cause when it is to basically render a champion useless instead of balancing them.

squirrelahApr 20, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Postal Badger,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ExUldaBe,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-04-20T17:51:16.874+0000)

There's no way you can expect people to support your cause when it is to basically render a champion useless instead of balancing them.

thats because he inherityl cannot be balanced.

if he is playable he is broken because he has too much jammed into his kit. Blame riot for making yet another champion that falls into this unbalanceable mold. Hes exactly like kallista in this regard.

CubedJusticeApr 20, 20151 votes

Just play somebody that can bully him early on, stunt his growth. Counterpicks are OP, riot should nerf them.

squirrelahApr 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Just play somebody that can bully him early on, stunt his growth. Counterpicks are OP, riot should nerf them.

what if im not laning against him or he picks after me. You shouldnt have to base your entire pick choice around "well this champions left open so if i pick this he gets to bully me then scale into a hypercarry".

DrCyanideApr 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

you cant all in him, he outranges you, he outzones you, you cant keep him from farming and you cant realistically gank him if he isnt stupid.

Let me introduce you to a champion you seem to have forgotten about.

Ziggs

Now you out range him and have comparable zoning power, as well as mobility of your own.

squirrelahApr 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Let me introduce you to a champion you seem to have forgotten about.

Now you out range him and have comparable zoning power, as well as mobility of your own.

his zoning is significantly less than azirs, the range is about the same except for ults, and ziggs's satchel is harder to use effectively to reposition(also azir has two forms of keeping people from him and ziggs has one). Also azirs q damage is unddogeable and ziggs is very easily dodgeable. Theres a reason ziggs had his q radius and bounce radius lowered, if his q was like it used to be or maybe slightly stronger i would agree that they are similar however in their current state they are not.