Next to no people outside of a handful that can even be reasoned with enough to simply have even a discussion.
Not even trying to discuss whether or not mages or assassins or OP or weak or whatever, just discussions of where they even stand devolve near immediately.
NinjaGuy699 votesIt's simple, my dear Joxcab. Lots of people who post on these boards are low elo and don't know how to play against assassins. This frustrates them, and so they come here to rage about it even when it isn't warranted. On the other hand, tanky AP is toxic and needs to be addressed by Riot. No need to thank senpai, just doing my job.
Zerenza3 votesPick a mage, AA, AA, AA= Profit. Literally shut's down every single assassin i'v ever played against, auto attacks for days at level 1-3, poke them down endlessly, push them out of lane, make them so far behind they can't do anything. That's how you beat an assassin, i play assassins a lot myself and for some reason the people i lane against don't know how to trade against a melee most of the time.
Fed by Snu Snu8 votes
making assassination an AoE business since 2K11.
tC0gzVJ6rF6 votesTry telling an Ahri main that she needs a nerf lmao
HaIlMonitor4 votesSome champs are wack and are mage assassin. It is up for the forums to choose who is okay or not
= okay
= not okay
lol
tC0gzVJ6rF7 votesIts actually disgusting that people find Ahri not completely overpowered
Hyperiön3 votesShe isn't though.
She is a jack of all trades, but master of none. Sure, she is a little too safe, but her damage compared to others is very lack luster.
Sure, she can carry a game, but anyone can.
Craft Zeppelin2 votes[{quoted}](name=FF Hyperion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EvxLKnqE,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-18T18:19:39.546+0000)
She isn't though.
**She is a jack of all trades, but master of none. **Sure, she is a little too safe, but her damage compared to others is very lack luster.
Sure, she can carry a game, but anyone can.
jacked off by all summoners, mastery 7 everybody (ludicrous playrate) you mean. ...like seriously what is this ahri favoritism. its disgusting. I dont care about her damage its her damn playstyle which is making a whole mockery of the assassin class.
Hyperiön2 votesShe isn't described as an assassin anymore by Rito.
She is now a "mage".
How is it mocking assassins?
She kills any high priority target out of position. Just like any assassin does.
Craft Zeppelin2 votes[{quoted}](name=FF Hyperion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EvxLKnqE,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-18T19:13:02.387+0000)
She isn't described as an assassin anymore by Rito.
She is now a "mage".
How is it mocking assassins?
She kills any high priority target out of position. Just like any assassin does.
Just because riot put the label off doesnt mean ANYTHING. Maokai is a BS mage support this patch, and is only played that way even if he has a tank label by riot. Heck even mordekaiser never had a marksman icon on him although riot intend him to.
That label means nothing.
Ganked By Tilt5 votesSome champs are wack and are mage assassin. It is up for the forums to choose who is okay or not
I have no idea why people hate leblanc, while ahri exist.
Craft Zeppelin2 votes[{quoted}](name=Ganked By Tilt,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EvxLKnqE,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2017-05-18T17:46:29.758+0000)
I have no idea why people hate leblanc, while ahri exist.
It is like comparing cookies and biscuits really. Its just a difference of being a weeb fox or magician.
Ganked By Tilt5 votesTry telling an Ahri main that she needs a nerf lmao
Lol right, good thing riot is looking for a nerf for her now.
nice table6 voteswell ya know most mages have skillshots they have to land to kill you while assassins delete you without any implication of skill involved.
TL;DR assassins are the most cancerous class to play against.
inb4 git gud, i don't have trouble with assassins nor do i hate them as a tank main im just explaining why people hate them.
Ganked By Tilt3 votes[{quoted}](name=nice table,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EvxLKnqE,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-05-18T17:43:23.673+0000)
well ya know most mages have skillshots they have to land to kill you while assassins delete you without any implication of skill involved.
TL;DR assassins are the most cancerous class to play against.
inb4 git gud, i don't have trouble with assassins nor do i hate them as a tank main im just explaining why people hate them.
And mages are safe and scale really well, even if they feed they are useful. Different playstyle for people, assassins are popular and they aren't going anywhere.
Jmman1 votesWell the problem is "mages" fill a lot of roles on the battle field. So you would have to compare ap assassins to ad assassins.
Dot mage, control, etc == burst mage assassin
well I love how win people say mage they think 
and forget
THIS THE ISSUE
NAME THE ONES THAT SUPPORT YOUR CAUSE OR POINT NOT CLASS ALL OF THEM TOGETHER.
Sanctimonious1 votesHonestly, if isn't shitting on assassins, there is a problem.
Ganked By Tilt3 votesWell the problem is "mages" fill a lot of roles on the battle field. So you would have to compare ap assassins to ad assassins.
Dot mage, control, etc == burst mage assassin
well I love how win people say mage they think
and forget
THIS THE ISSUE
NAME THE ONES THAT SUPPORT YOUR CAUSE OR POINT NOT CLASS ALL OF THEM TOGETHER.
Leblanc is assassin though
Jmman1 votesI agree and this is part of the problem.
"Mages" can be assassin, tanks, bruisers, support or APC.
So some people like to compart AD assassins to AP assassins but call the AP assassins "mages". That means they are asking for nerfs to all the AP users that aren't assassins.
Right now a lot of the items are all shared. This is lumping "mages" in the same boat rather than letting each role and items go its own way.
AP assassins can't get good items because APC/support/bruiser would make too strong in some cases.
AP tanks cant get good items because bruiser and assassin would be too strong.
APC items might be too good on AP assassin's and so on.
The boards say mages = /
Yes these are mages but one is an APC mage, an Assassin mage, a support mage, a bruiser mage, and one a Tank mage.
To say that all these should share the same item pool is funny. Because the AD counter part has AD specific for each roll.
I think this might be a root of some of the balancing issues for mages too.
Joxcab2 votesAssassins do take tons of skill though if you're against a player who's even slightly decent at League, let alone a teamfight setting with more than one enemy nearby.
nice table4 votesassassins do take skill but its for them to outplay you not for you to have counterplay.
Joxcab3 votesThat's just blatantly incorrect.
List any assassin and any mage to go against them and I will prove you wrong.
TyrekGoldenspear2 votesFizz and Azir. :(
I am still in pain as the birb emperor.
Joxcab3 votesFizz usually starts W first, then E, then Q, then E max into W max order in midlane. Azir should go W then Q then E into Q max into W max as standard.
Bully him as hard as you possibly can without risking jungler gank (proper ward) levels 1-2. He has no way of putting the mark on you without getting into melee range. The only way he can do that is E double dash to you (given Azir's range) which means no slow from E.
Now to actually deal any significant damage, he has to wait at least 2 full seconds minimum before using W. He has no other mobility at levels 1-2. E in is death because Azir has a lot faster DPS.
Level 3-5, I'd back closer to tower range and bully him still, but tone it down to having one soldier out to farm, keeping a second in reserve if he tries to do his mini combo to bully him or dash away with.
Level 6, Azir has faster waveclear so he can prevent Fizz being able to run in with his wave to dive easier. If Fizz tries to ult, short range and medium range is poor damage. Long range works but then you could just back since you're under tower anyways. If he still tries to dive anyways he's not going to be in range to Q you and using E to dive you as initiation is foolishness because you could E dash away or R him after he lands.
First back would probably be Lost Chapter and a Null Magic Mantle, or a Sapphire Crystal and a Null Magic Mantle into LC if you lack gold.
Upgrade Null Magic towards Banshee's Veil, that completely blue balls Fizz over since he has no way to pop it without getting into melee unless he wants to waste ultimate.
A Negatron Cloak into Abyssal can also help if necessary, since NC is a huge chunk of MR, even though NMM should probably be enough.
Morello's after into Nashor or Rylai's then whichever you didn't buy, so on and so forth.
Post laning, just stick with your team, powerclear and shove when it's safe to do so, and help peel Fizz or zone with soldiers + ult + Rylai's.
TyrekGoldenspear2 votesThanks for the tip. Although I max W first as Azir to get better DPS early and mid game as well as get extra stabs in. It shouldn't be too hard to adapt your knowledge.
I think a major thing with people is that they assume that assassins can 100-0 you at level 1 or 2. Therefore when you say Fizz Eing into me is suicide becuase I outDPS him that early, my first instinct is to run, not fight becuase I think he has level 6 damage.
A lot of assassin strength on lane seems to be phsycological as well.
Joxcab1 votesYeah, thinking things through logically helps a ton, especially now since assassin burst is a lot slower and locked behind delays.
Thinking through it again, W max would work too. Not sure if it'd be better or not, might be better for the CDR in lane.
Oh, forgot about Zhonya's.
If you're having trouble: Lost Chapter + Null Magic Mantle → Lost Chapter is enough for the mana in early, build towards Fiendish Codex (the cooldown reduction will help with keeping up), finish into Banshee's (completely cockblocks him in lane)
If you're doing alright and feel you can continue to handle him: Lost Chapter + Null Magic Mantle → Fiendish Codex → Nashor's Tooth
A lot of higher ELO Azir players have been going Nashor's as a core first or second item, but have been forgoing Rylai's in favor of items such as Morellonomicon or Banshee's Veil which have been better on Azir or more pen such as Liandry's since Q already slows for that extra burst.
Second item would be probably Banshee's if you went Nashor's first and vice versa.
After that, third item Zhonya's would probably help out, fourth-fifth being things like Morello's/Liandry's/Rabadon's/Void Staff depending on how far along you are/how fed/relevant matchups (do you need more pen, or Grievous, or more mana, etc)/etc.
Azir is fairly situational to be honest, and even some of the best players in the world are still falling behind on winrates with him, so don't feel too bad if it doesn't work out that well in any one game.
nice table1 votesnot to meme here or anything but most people probably know more about the mid lane matchups than you do, since ya know bronze and jungle main. i don't like pretending like i know the mid lane matchups as a jungle main and chances are you don't either.
Joxcab3 votesBut I don't main jungle. This is my friend's account I'm using for Boards because I got banned on the other one on Boards.
Craft Zeppelin3 votesAnother thing is, I honesly think less than half the community knows what a assassin IS in the first place. I had a game where my teammates were pinging me to INITIATE as khazix.
Like fk lol
WalkingInACircle3 votesThe assassin victim complex is disgusting*.
Azureee2 votesIt's super disgusting, just played against an Ori who ints all game falls behind and can still Q > E all game long and do more than half of anythings hp with no mpen even with everyone having mr, rly nice champ, clearly not overtuned. Just don't go near the ball haha :)
Hige2 votesmages and assassins do share sort of the same space, the problem being that itemization tends to favor one or the other
still for some reason we have champions like Syndra who can assassinate fairly easily with her subpar AP build... imagine if her balls scaled with AD O_O
either way, I think both are in a pretty healthy spot to be honest, assassins do their job and so does mages (at least Syndra, Viktor, Ahri, Taliyah and even Ryze)
Ralanr1 votesPro-tank, pro-support, pro-mage, pro-assassin, pro-adc (last two are rarer I admit).
The boards are just biased for everything.
warpenguin5551 votesThat died a while ago . Where have you been
Scary Door1 votesIf anything the Boards are basically pro tank.
Aptest1 votesi think it is clear by the lack of a ton of OTPs that tanks in general have a satisfaction problem associated with them.
because Yasuo OTPs you can find anywhere. but Nautilus OTPs? have you seen one this year ?
Scary Door1 votesThat's a more a symptom of playstyle and sociology behind it than anything else. Many people that play this game love to, at least on some level, be the hero. Naut, Braum, Malphite (outside of ult), Volibear... they're just not exciting champions. Lee Sin, Yasuo, Zed, Talon, Kat even Lucian or Kalista are far more exciting/interesting. Not saying you can't carry games on the former, but the latter just look cooler and, to the predominantly younger audience that plays this game, that's what matters. Flashy, bursty or high mechanical skill is what draws people in, even if they aren't exactly the best choices in game.
Aptest1 voteseverybody is basically pro tank. because everybody wants the other guy to play a tank.
I think there is a general consensus on the other guy should play a tank. exempt when it comes to my pick, well im more a yasuo guy, but malaphite looks really good for you. you should pick him tank tops are super cool, and they look really hot on girls too. ofcourse if you're a man we just say you're a wife-beater for wearing one. because real men play fizz.
a question though: was tank ekko exciting ?
Aptest1 votesNot sure what you want to achieve with this thread. A discussion of the bias?
I can do that a bit if that is what you want to delve into. Please correct me on any mistakes most of this is not well grounded in my experience.
It is my assumption that mid lane players in general heavily prefer assassins to mages. I think there is a small number of people who really like specific mages but overall assassins in general and the assassin VS assassin matchup in specific is much more enjoyable for mid lane players.
I think that for mid lane players, assassins provide (a) interactive laning experience, (b) mutual kill pressure (=fun), (c) easy access to macro play, fun in mobility, (d) well defined high points in killing the other team's squishies and (e) higher levels of agency (the ability to make decisions for own and other team) than mages.
In contrast, I believe most of the disadvantages of mid lane playing an assassin are shouldered by other lanes.
When mid is an assassin, there are less opportunities for ganking for other play making classes (junglers and supports) because outright ganking and killing the hyper mobile mid is less relevant. Therefore playing around mid is more about siege and pressure, which is a less fun play style.
Additionally, because of the high reliability of assassin kits, reactive kits on supports are favored to proactive kits (lulu, janna > leona, alistar), leading directly to a loss of the agency of the support player. likewise the ADC players has to be much more careful when entering fights, and also experiences a corresponding loss of agency because of that.
My bias against assassins come from my desire to play a proactive play-making role as a support. overbearing mobility and kill pressure from the enemy mid lane and overbearing value to being able to reliably protect my own ADC, as opposed to other qualities, goes directly against the line of play that i find enjoyable.
I think there is a measure of adaptation that is expected and reasonable that i make when i go into the game. but if a set of very common picks make me constantly having to adapt away from the play styles that are fun to me and into play styles that are less fun, then there is a game balance issue, at least IMHO. And ofc this cuts both ways.
Ideas ?
Vekkna1 votesGreat commentary. As a mage main, I also enjoy laning against most assassins. I get the satisfaction of abusing them if I play well, but I have to be careful enough because they punish you so hard. I think the current state is a mostly balanced laning experience.
The problem I have with assassins is when they are still big threats when behind. Or when they're hard to kill and stay hard to kill when behind. If the assassin gets a lead on a mage, the assassin can repeatedly force losing fights on the mage with less and less risk. If the mage gets a lead, the assassin can usually fall back on their mobility to escape bad fights and some deaths.
My biggest frustration with assassins (specifically Talon and Fizz) is how utterly helpless I feel when they roam. I've seen a lot of these two lately and pretty much crushed them in lane. But they pick up kills in bot and proceed to 1-combo me for the rest of the game.
I just don't understand the numbers on some assassins. For example, Fizz can hit QWaa and dish out 2.15 AP + 2.0 AD + sheen, and it's 100% un-dodgeable damage. And he gets another 1.3-2.8 AP and high base damage from his other two skills.
Like, if I'm playing Zyra, I have to use QER + 30 plant attacks to ever get a 4.95 AP ratio out of one combo. That kind of damage discrepancy feels really cheap.
Aptest1 votesI think that for the most parts most mages beat most assassins in lane. Long straight lane with no bushes is optimal for the kind of long range abuse many mages are able to create.
Assassins while losing the direct 1v1 in lane are much better than most mages at roaming. Even roaming specialists (Thalia and Aurelian Sol) have problems roaming VS assassins because they cant afford to meet the assassin in some short range scenario in mid roam.
Part of what makes assassins more fun is their ability to play on the map. To be bot lane and generate the play that opens up dragon, to be top lane and generate the play that opens up herald, to join up with their jungler and contest enemy blue or red.
A second part is, because they are very good at slipping out when it is needed but ALSO because they are on the map and not in their lane, Assassins get ganked a lot less than other champions. They spend much less time on the receiving end of the gank (the less fun part) and much more time being the gankers.
This also denies the people who would gank the mid lane the opportunity to create this play.