He is countered by people that actually know how to play the game, and he counters people that don't. Since you only listen to the people that don't, you keep nerfing him. He will be unviable if you continue on your path of nerfing him. So, just rework him already. Make his CC skill shots so that they can actually be effective, 1.46 second fear and 0.81 second silence currently, without people complaining about it being point and click.
Sightless663 votesHe is countered by people that actually know how to play the game, and he counters people that don't.
Yeah, that's why he's such a scary champion in Diamond to Challenger. Because Challengers doesn't know how to play the game.
SexyTaylorSwift1 votesLol, so why exactly was he only picked/banned 1 time in worlds?
Also, why not nerf Heim, Brand, Eve, Rene, Ali, Ashe, Zyra, Cho, Galio, Viktor, Vlad, Veigar, Hec, moa, Elise, Lulu, Vel, Kass, Singed, or karth? These are just some of the champs that have higher win ratios in the leagues that you mentioned.
Sooko1 votesTo be fair, the champions you mention are picked by pros because they are pro enough to think by themselves rather than going for the popular champions
SexyTaylorSwift1 votesTo be fair nothing lol. He brought up this rank of players. Lol, nor has Fiddles been a popular champ since I have started playing the game, that is why I started playing him. He only became popular when they made 95% of junglers unable to compete in the new jungle. That is not a Fiddles issue, that is a stupid change to jungle issue lol.
Sightless661 votesLol, so why exactly was he only picked/banned 1 time in worlds?
For the same reason most junglers aren't: He's not an early game powerhouse, and he is at least slightly vulnerable to champions who are. In competitive jungling, that is a death sentence unless you are literally the strongest champion in the game. Fortunately for you and me though, we don't play in competitive, and we aren't so limited in our selection of champions. We play in solo queue, and therefore I will judge Fiddle based on solo queue. Picking an early game jungler is not a hard necessity, so we can use champions who get massive power spikes at level 6 instead of having all their power from levels 1-3.
Two things regarding win ratios. First, where are you getting your info from? According to Lolking, over the last week, Fiddlesticks had the third highest winrate in Diamond. He's had one of the highest win ratios for a long time. He's certainly not lower than Elise, who maintains a shit win ratio pretty much everywhere. Second, win ratios mean very little without context. They are not a good sole measure for determining balance states. Fiddlesticks started getting popular near the end quarter of season 4. Normally, that deflates winrates a bit. That it didn't to Fiddle is not a great sign for his balance state.
Fiddle is still viable. He's still very strong. These nerfs aren't going to kill him. Relax mate. All champions get nerfed sooner or later, and most get nerfed more than they get buffed. Fiddle isn't an exception here.
SexyTaylorSwift1 votesFiddles only got popular when they fucked the jungle up to the point that people couldn't play other ones lol. Also, I got stats from OP.gg. And in Diamond, no, she doesn't have a higher win rate. This fella just said Diamond-Challenger, so I was listing the champs with higher win rates in those divisions. Elise had higher in either Master or Challenger.
Sightless661 votesAlso, I got stats from OP.gg.
I'm looking at OP.gg right now. Diamond League. Last 7 days. Fiddlesticks third highest winrate. Master League: fifth highest winrate. Challenger is third highest winrate.
I think the problem is that you are looking at daily win rates instead of weekly or monthly. You can't do that. The sample size is way, way too low to draw any meaningful conclusions. There are literally 5 games played for some of those champions. You can not draw any conclusions from 5 games. Look at weekly or monthly. Hell, you really shouldn't even be using Master of Challenger because even on the weekly measure, Fiddle only had 21 games played in Diamond, and fewer in Master. You can't get worthwhile statistical result from that low a sample. The 1,900 games this week in Diamond are a better measure to use (of course, they all say the same thing: Fiddle is in the top 5 win ratios).
Also, if you look at Elise (weekly, Diamond), she has a 44.07% win rate. She has the ninth lowest win rate. She's been down there for quite a while.
Look at the statistics again, and don't use the daily measure. That will give you much more accurate information. Fiddle is a top win rate champion. Again, by itself that doesn't mean much because win rates are not a great measure, but it should be noted accurately.
Fiddles only got popular when they fucked the jungle up to the point that people couldn't play other ones lol.
No, he was rising in popularity throughout the second half of season 4. He was a very strong jungle pick for quite a long time. His popularity isn't something extremely new. It has gone up a bit, but he has not risen from being a completely unplayed niche champion. He's been a moderately common ban for a while now (during the Rammus period, Fiddle was over a 10% ban rate at Plat and above.)
SexyTaylorSwift1 votesHere is my picture from the other tier.
Sightless661 votesThis picture does look like what I see. Again, low sample sizes kind of mean that the data is irrelevant, but at least that tells us something about the site.
SexyTaylorSwift1 votesYeah, I get what you are saying about the pick rate being low at these levels, but again, I am not the one that brought it up lol. Also, what I am doing wrong here? I see this as being sorted over the past month.
Also, I didn't see his pick or ban rate rise much. I literally was able to pick him every single game that I got a role other than ADC or a hard counter in lane up til the jungle changes lol. This is just from personal experience, and at the gold level, but still true. I do not remember a time that I was unable to pick Fiddles because the enemy picked him or he was banned lol.
Sightless661 votesHm. My list doesn't look like that. That's very odd. If I had to guess, I think there is a bug with the site. It might be related to the 4.20 shift.
However, for the moment, let's use your numbers and say mine have error. You see how some of the top champions on that list only have like 5-40ish games played? We can't conclude anything from that. 5 games on Heimerdinger can not be used to justify a claim that he is a strong champion. It can't be used to saw that this is an accurate representation of what his winrate would be over sustained trials. Statistically, it's almost irrelevant. This is the problem with using the Master/Challenger data. There are so few players and so few games played that we can't say a champion's strength is causing their win rates. It could easily be related to the player. For an example, let's take Eve. It is likely that there is one player who is exceptionally good with Eve who plays her more than anyone else, and that player is good enough to raise the win rates. Because Master and Challenger have so few players, such a person could raise the win rate substantially by themselves. This is why I say using Diamond is more accurate. Having a few thousand games on a champion to make a conclusion from is much better than having 20.
Also, the numbers seriously look weird. 6 Renekton games in a month? I've got to question that. I have to wonder about their methodology. I'll look into that when I have more time.
If you could, can you show me a picture of your diamond winrates? I'd like to see if that matches mine.
coppinslinger2 votesEh, I've been spamming Fiddlesticks in SoloQ and what you say is more or less correct. Basically, if you can get vision control and get good ults off, then you can easily solo carry the game. If the enemy gets vision control, you do mediocre damage and are only a CC bot.
I think this is fine how it is, but its less about "knowing how to play the game" and rather more about vision-control. Great players can still get surprised by a fiddle ult if they have no wards.
The recent nerfs are understandable and don't break him. Even without the 3.5s silence from the bouncing, you can still chain-CC somebody for 3 seconds at least, which is enough time for your team to follow up. Not to mention you are doing like 1000 base damage to them with your ult at the same time.
SexyTaylorSwift1 votesExactly my point with your first part lol. Also, your numbers are assuming they don't have tenacity or any MR. Which is again, why I made the comment. Merc boots drop fear to 1.5s and silence to about 0.8s. So, you are doing about half of your ult damage with it really. And I consider "knowing how to play the game" as including vision-control lol. I think that is probably the biggest reason he wasn't seen at all during LCS play.
It's just the ADCs that want to build 100% damage items, not even the MR AD one lol, not ward, and then complain that Fiddles is OP. I personally don't think the game should be balanced around that. He had counters in lane and countered people in lane. There was counter play involved in his kit, so I don't see why they felt the need to nerf. He only became more popular because they fucked the jungle up hard, making like 95% of junglers unable to do anything. I mean, since I started playing this game, I could literally have played Fiddles in any game that I wanted to because nobody picked him and nobody banned him. I que up after the jungle updates and he is banned in more than a quarter of my games lol.
These changes aren't going to effect people that don't understand the game. I will still be able to ult and kill the overextended 100% damage build enemy ADC, just like every other champ can do that is designed to do so. They will still complain and Fiddles will be nerfed more. That is why I would like to see a rework. Any Fiddles player would LOVE to have 3 second CC if it were a skill shot lol.
SexyTaylorSwift1 votesYou also have no chance whatsoever of getting a full ult in now.
BlackRaven1 votesif only what u said could be related to by anyone in diamond-challenger. stop crying abotu fiddle and play someone else who actually requires brain cells.
SexyTaylorSwift1 votesActually, it can be lol. He only got nerfed because people like you have no idea what a counter build is, so you cried on boards spamming "nerf fiddles" :D. As Riot has shown, they only listen to the people crying for nerfs lol. Again, there's a reason he was picked/banned 1 single time at worlds.
BlackRaven1 votes{quoted} Actually, it can be lol. He only got nerfed because people like you have no idea what a counter build is, so you cried on boards spamming "nerf fiddles" :D. As Riot has shown, they only listen to the people crying for nerfs lol. Again, there's a reason he was picked/banned 1 single time at worlds.
ur form of a counter build is wards. if ur team is retarded you should lose the game? if my support chooses not to ward and im the only one warding i should lose the game. if the fiddle has flash ulti on us we should all have flash up? stop defending this toxic cancer and play someone other than point and clcik yet again.
SexyTaylorSwift1 votesLol...You play Lee Sin and Riven. Please go on about skill champs. Anyway, there are far more things than wards that counter Fiddles. I can only assume that you are trolling, because I highly doubt that you are unable to see that. But I do notice that you obviously cannot read since I asked for a reworked Fiddles since people like cry about point and click lol.
BlackRaven1 votes{quoted} Lol...You play Lee Sin and Riven. Please go on about skill champs. Anyway, there are far more things than wards that counter Fiddles. I can only assume that you are trolling, because I highly doubt that you are unable to see that. But I do notice that you obviously cannot read since I asked for a reworked Fiddles since people like cry about point and click lol.
lee sin is balanced and riven is underplayed atm in high elo. shes been balanced atm and fiddle is just beginning to become balanced.
SexyTaylorSwift1 votesFiddles will never be "balanced". For people like you, he won't be "balanced" unless his fear is 1.0 second and his silenced is removed lol. For people that actually play Fiddles, this wouldn't work at all. That is why I think he should just be reworked. Riot is trying to remove CC from the game, and it hurts a champ that is based on it.
BlackRaven1 votes{quoted} Fiddles will never be "balanced". For people like you, he won't be "balanced" unless his fear is 1.0 seconds and his silenced is removed lol. For people that actually play Fiddles, this wouldn't work at all. That is why I think he should just be reworked. Riot is trying to remove CC from the game, and it hurts a champ that is based on it. finally someone gets it. no silence and a 1 sec fear now thats fun to play vs. not that stupid flash q "mechanics". rework him or keep nerfing him. no one but fiddle mains will care.
SexyTaylorSwift1 votesI'm all for no silence and a 1 second fear. But, give him a massive power boost and replace the E with a gap closer lol. And you saying no one but fiddles mains will care, yet your kind are the ones making all the fuss to nerf him lol. #businessmajorlogic.
BlackRaven1 votes{quoted} I'm all for no silence and a 1 second fear. But, give him a massive power boost and replace the E with a gap closer lol. And you saying no one but fiddles mains will care, yet your kind are the ones making all the fuss to nerf him lol. #businessmajorlogic.
i said after his nerfs no one will care it seems u have trouble reading?
SexyTaylorSwift1 votesFalse. You never said after.